HOA wont allow wire runs on condo walls

[mgavs]

I have a friend who recently installed DirecTV. The disk was installed on a roof and the main receiver was supposed to be in the living room. The dish was installed ok and the bedroom was hooked up. But the HOA said they do not allow wires to be run along the exterior wall. Since there is no other way get a cable to the living room (they got 2 installers and a contractor to check) they don't have it setup in the most important room. The HOA says that only the inside is considered private and all roofs, walls, exterior, even patios are considered common. I read the OTARD rules on FCC but can really find the exact answer to this. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge with this problem who can point us in the right direction?

[rudeney]

Unfortunately, your friend is likely out of luck on this. According to OTARD, "The rule does not apply to common areas, such as the roof, the hallways, the walkways or the exterior walls of a condominium or apartment building. Restrictions on antennas installed in these common areas are not covered by the Commission's rule. For example, the rule would not apply to restrictions that prevent drilling through the exterior wall of a condominium or rental unit and thus restrictions may prohibit installation that requires such drilling."

If they can get wire into one part of the home, then they should be able to get wire into other areas. Of course this may mean some sheetrock work or complex pulls, but it's still feasible.

[Movieman]

Originally Posted by mgavs

I have a friend who recently installed DirecTV. The disk was installed on a roof and the main receiver was supposed to be in the living room. The dish was installed ok and the bedroom was hooked up. But the HOA said they do not allow wires to be run along the exterior wall. Since there is no other way get a cable to the living room (they got 2 installers and a contractor to check) they don't have it setup in the most important room. The HOA says that only the inside is considered private and all roofs, walls, exterior, even patios are considered common. I read the OTARD rules on FCC but can really find the exact answer to this. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge with this problem who can point us in the right direction?

First what type of home is it (condo, townhouse, SFR)? Second, your friend may want to be able to purchase a SWM setup so that they can get one wire close to the dish into the property and then split the rest from the inside of the property. HOA rules can be tricky thats why I asked about what type of property. If its a townhouse or a condo is there some sort of Grievance Community that your friend can appeal to where they might be able to get some sort of waver?

[rudeney]

Just to clarify Larry's comments, what we usually call a "condo" is a dwelling where the interior is the property of the homeowner, but the exterior is owned by another entity, such as a corporation or "cooperative" made up of all homeowners. In that case, OTARD does not give the homeowner rights to attach an antenna or cables without permissions. The term "townhouse" usually refers to attached dwellings with some shared walls or structural components, but both the interior and exterior are the property of the homeowner. In this case, OTARD does give homeowners rights to attach antennas and cabling because it is their property.

[Movieman]

Originally Posted by rudeney

Just to clarify Larry's comments, what we usually call a "condo" is a dwelling where the interior is the property of the homeowner, but the exterior is owned by another entity, such as a corporation or "cooperative" made up of all homeowners. In that case, OTARD does not give the homeowner rights to attach an antenna or cables without permissions. The term "townhouse" usually refers to attached dwellings with some shared walls or structural components, but both the interior and exterior are the property of the homeowner. In this case, OTARD does give homeowners rights to attach antennas and cabling because it is their property.

Just to give one more clarification SFR=Single Family Residence which can have HOA rules but most of the entire property is still controlled and owned by the property owner but subject to HOA rules but OTARD gives the homeowner even greater rights. Sorry for assuming that these terms would be understood on the fly. I use this a lot in my day so i guess its force of habit.

[joe diamond]

Originally Posted by mgavs

I have a friend who recently installed DirecTV. The disk was installed on a roof and the main receiver was supposed to be in the living room. The dish was installed ok and the bedroom was hooked up. But the HOA said they do not allow wires to be run along the exterior wall. Since there is no other way get a cable to the living room (they got 2 installers and a contractor to check) they don't have it setup in the most important room. The HOA says that only the inside is considered private and all roofs, walls, exterior, even patios are considered common. I read the OTARD rules on FCC but can really find the exact answer to this. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge with this problem who can point us in the right direction?

Without seeing the exterior of the building this is a tough suggestion to make but.........consider using a gutter downspout exactly the same color and style as the existing one. This will give you a vertical cable route that may appease the HOA committee wonks. If you feel daring, run the cable behind or in the existing downspout.

May help,

Joe

[boba]

Originally Posted by mgavs

I have a friend who recently installed DirecTV. The disk was installed on a roof and the main receiver was supposed to be in the living room. The dish was installed ok and the bedroom was hooked up. But the HOA said they do not allow wires to be run along the exterior wall. Since there is no other way get a cable to the living room (they got 2 installers and a contractor to check) they don't have it setup in the most important room. The HOA says that only the inside is considered private and all roofs, walls, exterior, even patios are considered common. I read the OTARD rules on FCC but can really find the exact answer to this. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge with this problem who can point us in the right direction?

It is very unusual that there is no prewire into the living room. Is there an access problem to the existing cabling?

[HoTat2]

Originally Posted by boba

It is very unusual that there is no prewire into the living room. Is there an access problem to the existing cabling?

This was my thought as well. Didn't the condo, and thereby most certainly the living room, come pre-wired for CATV so you may feed a SWM home-run somewhere at the cable TV POE?

[rudeney]

Yeah, but depending on how old the building is, that could be some old RG59 that is split in the walls. Of course it might works with SWM system, depending on the quality of the splitters.

[HoTat2]

Originally Posted by rudeney

Yeah, but depending on how old the building is, that could be some old RG59 that is split in the walls. Of course it might works with SWM system, depending on the quality of the splitters.

Yeah true;

But off-topic for a moment, when I read these HOA problem related installation posts it really makes me wonder what are the real advantages to living in these HOA governed homes and neighborhoods? Does the lure of aesthetic beauty (which is subjective anyhow), and maybe the ability to screen out residents like Joe Sixpack who is too lazy to keep up his property, or live inside a security gated community, really outweigh the kinds of living restrictions dictated by these HOA organizations?

I mean, "don't put up that antenna or dish," "and don't run that cable," and "don't drill that hole."

Good heavens, give your residents a break!

[joe diamond]

Originally Posted by HoTat2

Yeah true;

But off-topic for a moment, when I read these HOA problem related installation posts it really makes me wonder what are the real advantages to living in these HOA governed homes and neighborhoods? Does the lure of aesthetic beauty (which is subjective anyhow), and maybe the ability to screen out residents like Joe Sixpack who is too lazy to keep up his property, or live inside a security gated community, really outweigh the kinds of living restrictions dictated by these HOA organizations?

I mean, "don't put up that antenna or dish," "and don't run that cable," and "don't drill that hole."

Good heavens, give your residents a break!

They are not for everyone. You build equity as you pay the mortgage and you don't have to involve yourself in maintenance. You write an additional check a month for condo fees to the HOA or a management company. It is when you get into exterior projects that things get ugly.
Paint your door an unapproved color or park a boat in your driveway and you will get calls and letters.

We got involved in one for the same money as paying for the dorm at our son's college. If the market ever gets going we will sell it at a profit after he graduates...things like that make sense to some.

He did amaze his pals by rigging a DTV dish in a window. Wonder where he got an idea to do that?

Joe

[rudeney]

Originally Posted by HoTat2

Yeah true;

But off-topic for a moment, when I read these HOA problem related installation posts it really makes me wonder what are the real advantages to living in these HOA governed homes and neighborhoods? Does the lure of aesthetic beauty (which is subjective anyhow), and maybe the ability to screen out residents like Joe Sixpack who is too lazy to keep up his property, or live inside a security gated community, really outweigh the kinds of living restrictions dictated by these HOA organizations?

I mean, "don't put up that antenna or dish," "and don't run that cable," and "don't drill that hole."

Good heavens, give your residents a break!

The purpose of an HOA is to enforce rules that ensure the mutual enjoyment and protection of real estate assets of all homeowners. They can be extremely restrictive, dictating paint colors and landscaping, or they can be simply helpful by maintaining common areas and making sure that all homes are kept in good repair. In no case can the "screen out" residents. All they can do is cit and fine residents for not following the rules.

I am an officer (treasurer) in the HOA for our single-family dwelling neighborhood. We do cite and fine neighbors for not taking "minimum" care of their yards and houses, but this is only to help maintain property values. Our covenant restrictions are a matter of public record and every homeowner has access to them, even before purchasing. My advice is if you don't want to have to abide by HOA rules, then don't buy property in an HOA community. I find it ironic that people who buy nice houses in charming neighborhoods complain about the HOA when it's the HOA that insures it stays that way.

In a condo situation, where the building structure and grounds are shared by all residents but owned by another entity, it's even more important to have an HOA. Even though in this case, the holes drilled in the outside walls might be done properly and never interfere with aesthetics or even the well-being of other units, there is no guarantee in that. What if the hold pierced the plumbing running to another unit, or if it leaked and caused mold inside the wall that affected other owners?

[hilmar2k]

Originally Posted by rudeney

The purpose of an HOA is to enforce rules that ensure the mutual enjoyment and protection of real estate assets of all homeowners. They can be extremely restrictive, dictating paint colors and landscaping, or they can be simply helpful by maintaining common areas and making sure that all homes are kept in good repair. In no case can the "screen out" residents. All they can do is cit and fine residents for not following the rules.

I am an officer (treasurer) in the HOA for our single-family dwelling neighborhood. We do cite and fine neighbors for not taking "minimum" care of their yards and houses, but this is only to help maintain property values. Our covenant restrictions are a matter of public record and every homeowner has access to them, even before purchasing. My advice is if you don't want to have to abide by HOA rules, then don't buy property in an HOA community. I find it ironic that people who buy nice houses in charming neighborhoods complain about the HOA when it's the HOA that insures it stays that way.

In a condo situation, where the building structure and grounds are shared by all residents but owned by another entity, it's even more important to have an HOA. Even though in this case, the holes drilled in the outside walls might be done properly and never interfere with aesthetics or even the well-being of other units, there is no guarantee in that. What if the hold pierced the plumbing running to another unit, or if it leaked and caused mold inside the wall that affected other owners?

My HOA is a bit extreme in their rules and enforcement. I live in a development with both single-family homes and condos. I happen to live in a single family home, but that's irrelevant to my story. I have actually been fined for not putting my trash barrel away fast enough on trash day (rule says in by 6:00 PM on trash day) and for the little sign that the driveway sealing company leaves in your yard when they seal your driveway. Really? How is someone supposed to work and get their trash barrel in before 6:00? And how can I be responsible for a little sign left in my yard by someone else?!?!? There are rules, and then there are ridiculous rules put in place just so the HOA board feels useful. The latter infuriates me.

[bobcamp1]

Originally Posted by HoTat2

Yeah true;

But off-topic for a moment, when I read these HOA problem related installation posts it really makes me wonder what are the real advantages to living in these HOA governed homes and neighborhoods? Does the lure of aesthetic beauty (which is subjective anyhow), and maybe the ability to screen out residents like Joe Sixpack who is too lazy to keep up his property, or live inside a security gated community, really outweigh the kinds of living restrictions dictated by these HOA organizations?

I mean, "don't put up that antenna or dish," "and don't run that cable," and "don't drill that hole."

Good heavens, give your residents a break!

Most HOA subdivisions in the South have their own swimming pool, playground, lighting, and common areas that need to be maintained. If you own the residence, they can't really do anything about the dish.

The condo owner (not the resident) is responsible for the outside of the house. So the condo owner doesn't have to maintain it. But if the outside of the building isn't yours, though, then the actual building owner or HOA (representing the owners) can restrict what you do. I'm sure that the installers want to run the cables down the side of the condo AND DRILL A HOLE in the side to run the cable. That's permanent.

The roof is also a common area. I'm surprised they let him put the dish on the roof.

[rudeney]

Originally Posted by hilmar2k

My HOA is a bit extreme in their rules and enforcement. I live in a development with both single-family homes and condos. I happen to live in a single family home, but that's irrelevant to my story. I have actually been fined for not putting my trash barrel away fast enough on trash day (rule says in by 6:00 PM on trash day) and for the little sign that the driveway sealing company leaves in your yard when they seal your driveway. Really? How is someone supposed to work and get their trash barrel in before 6:00? And how can I be responsible for a little sign left in my yard by someone else?!?!? There are rules, and then there are ridiculous rules put in place just so the HOA board feels useful. The latter infuriates me.

One problem an HOA has is that they often inherit very poorly written covenants form the developer. Failure to evenly enforce all rules in the covenants may cause them to lose the ability to enforce any of the rules. Judges and juries almost always side with the homeowners unless they are just acting in a completely unreasonable way with blatant disregard for their neighbor's enjoyment of their property.

My advice to you is to get a copy of your covenants and read them thoroughly. I doubt they state that trash bins must be in by 6:00pm; most covenants just make reference to them not being left on the curb for an unreasonable length of time after collection. If this is the case, I'd fight the fines because removal by as late as midnight is not unreasonable. reasonable. As for the sign, yes, we have the same rules. We are not allowed to place signs in the yard other than for advertising the home for sale. If the contractor did this without your permission, then he needs to pay the fine.

On final thing: Have you ever though about volunteering to serve on your HOA's board or committees? In our neighborhood, the people most vocal against the HOA are always the last ones to want to help. Our board and officers are not paid. We volunteer because we want to help the community. Casting blame and criticism is always easier than taking action.

[rvd420]

I am not a fan of HOA's.

But then again I am a person who believes in personal responsibility. And in a small town everyone has pride in ownership. And takes care of their property.

[ffemtreed]

It is a myth that a HOA keeps up property values. Maybe on the face they might, but when it comes time to sell see how many people will walk away once they read it has an HOA and how many more will walk away if they are given the chance to read the covenants and restrictions. Now augment that with all the money you pay the HOA fee's. you would be better putting that money in the bank.

the one places HOA make complete sense are multi unit dwellings (ie condos') where a bunch of people are truly sharing roofs and walls. The other situation is elderly housing/limited income housing.

[Lee L]

Originally Posted by rudeney

On final thing: Have you ever though about volunteering to serve on your HOA's board or committees? In our neighborhood, the people most vocal against the HOA are always the last ones to want to help. Our board and officers are not paid. We volunteer because we want to help the community. Casting blame and criticism is always easier than taking action.

AMen to that. Having served as several positions on a couple of HOA boards and committees, it really come sdown to the same people doing the job 90% of the time.

AS far as strict enforecement, often, this is down to the actual management company that the board hires . Some are more strict than others and can be asked to be more or less strict. All the more reason to join the board, but when you find out that 25% of your neighbors are late with their dues ona consistent basis and probably 5% of them owe several payments late at all times, try not to get too mad.

As far as poeple running away from HOAs, in all honesty, the people who run away are not the ones I would want in my neighborhood. Also, in NC, if you are buying a new home in a subdivision with more than 75 or 100 homes (can;t remember the exact number), an HOA is required by law. They usually have to maintain certain areas like street entrance landscaping, streetlights (though this is usually paid to the power company who actually does the instal), etc that the cities used to maintain but now, do not. Also, as mentioned, pools and other amenities also need maintenance.

In my town, there is an ordinance that trash bins cannot be put out before sunset the day before and must be gone by sunset the next day, though no one ever fines people over it.

Also, most of the arguements about the "evil HOAs" don't even apply to the OP situation, since they live in a condominium. While, a condo may have an assoiciation board, a Condominum is actually a type of joint ownership. You can have in building condos, townhouse condos (also you can have townhouse construction that is not a condominium) even detached condominiums.

[rudeney]

Originally Posted by ffemtreed

It is a myth that a HOA keeps up property values. Maybe on the face they might, but when it comes time to sell see how many people will walk away once they read it has an HOA and how many more will walk away if they are given the chance to read the covenants and restrictions. Now augment that with all the money you pay the HOA fee's. you would be better putting that money in the bank.

I can't think of a neighborhood around here that has been built in the last 20 years without an HOA. It's just the way things are now. In my neighborhood, we have a front entrance, fences to separate our neighborhood from adjacent property (retention ponds and farm land), and shared alleyways. All those need to be maintained and that's the primary purpose of our HOA. We now have six empty houses (some from foreclosure, some from a state ROW project) that need to be maintained. Without the HOA taking care of this, these lots would be chest high with weeds.

Originally Posted by Lee L

AMen to that. Having served as several positions on a couple of HOA boards and committees, it really come sdown to the same people doing the job 90% of the time.

AS far as strict enforecement, often, this is down to the actual management company that the board hires . Some are more strict than others and can be asked to be more or less strict.

Some days I wish our HOA would hire a management company! We do it all ourselves.

All the more reason to join the board, but when you find out that 25% of your neighbors are late with their dues ona consistent basis and probably 5% of them owe several payments late at all times, try not to get too mad.

Trust me, it is hard to collect from your neighbors. I;ve had a few get really angry with me. I just remind them that it's a business transaction and nothign personal and if anyone gives me a reasonable excuse, I let them make payments and waive late fees (especially knowing how hard today's economy is for many of us).

As far as poeple running away from HOAs, in all honesty, the people who run away are not the ones I would want in my neighborhood.

Same here.

Also, most of the arguements about the "evil HOAs" don't even apply to the OP situation, since they live in a condominium. While, a condo may have an assoiciation board, a Condominum is actually a type of joint ownership. You can have in building condos, townhouse condos (also you can have townhouse construction that is not a condominium) even detached condominiums.

We have this situation at our beach condo. I know for sure I would not want any wiring run down the side of the building. Honestly, I don't really want to see antennas on the balconies, either. And while OTARD gives us the rights, luckily, no one has decided to "take advantage" of that.

[scooper]

The only good HOA is a DEAD HOA . Enough said. I will continue to live 20 miles out of Raleigh to avoid one.

There are some situations where it's a necessary evil. But a single family home residence subdivision isn't one of them.

[ffemtreed]

Originally Posted by rudeney

We now have six empty houses (some from foreclosure, some from a state ROW project) that need to be maintained. Without the HOA taking care of this, these lots would be chest high with weeds.

Wouldn't those weeds be a local code issue? Why do you need a HOA for that? We pay taxes to the local town for code enforcement.

Maybe if there wasn't a HOA involved maybe someone would actually buy those houses to live in.

The general concept of the HOA's is sound, its unfortunate what it has evolved into. Does the front door color really detract from the neighbors home value? Does having a boat parked in my driveway really detract from the value? I don't think there are too many people out there that say, well gee wizz.. I am not living there because my neighbor across the street has a boat and I can't stand to look at that everyday, or wow I am not moving in here because two doors down has a moo cow spotted front door.

Oh my god you can see a satellite dish on the building and Oh NO it has cables attached to it....... Dishes and cables and holes OH My!!

These HOA busy bodies need to go see the wizard to get a LIFE!!!!!!

[Simmerman]

One of the reasons I dont care for HOA's is that the strict ones make me work harder as an installer since the dishes have to be hidden. I think they are a neccessary entity and so long as they dont pull the zero tolerance thing Im ok with HOA's. I mean, think about it, the police dont write you a ticket for driving 57 in a 55 mph zone ( usually).

I remember I did an install once and started telling the cusotmer about OTARD since he was a little concerned about the dish install location. Well I didnt exactly slam the HOA's but I found out after my speech that he was the HOA president. Man he wouldnt talk to me for the rest of the install, I had to tak to the wife who was very nice.

My 2 cents

[Lee L]

Originally Posted by ffemtreed

Wouldn't those weeds be a local code issue? Why do you need a HOA for that? We pay taxes to the local town for code enforcement.

Maybe if there wasn't a HOA involved maybe someone would actually buy those houses to live in.

The general concept of the HOA's is sound, its unfortunate what it has evolved into. Does the front door color really detract from the neighbors home value? Does having a boat parked in my driveway really detract from the value? I don't think there are too many people out there that say, well gee wizz.. I am not living there because my neighbor across the street has a boat and I can't stand to look at that everyday, or wow I am not moving in here because two doors down has a moo cow spotted front door.

Oh my god you can see a satellite dish on the building and Oh NO it has cables attached to it....... Dishes and cables and holes OH My!!

These HOA busy bodies need to go see the wizard to get a LIFE!!!!!!

Again, most HOAs are fine, it is usually a few or maybe one bad person that makes them difficult to deal with.

Personally, I like living where there are some limits. I agree, that it should not be super restrictive, but no, I do not want someone painting their door moo cow spotted or orange or any other wacky colors.

Also, as stated, the reason cables were not allowed on the exterior of the building in the OPs case is due to the fact that the exterior of the building is technically owned and maintained by someone other than the OP.

As far as grass growing chest high being a local code issue, most cities have rules that do not allow the grass to be over 12 or 18 inches high. This is way too high for a residential community. Plus, it takes the city forever to actually make someone do anythign once it gets that high.

Originally Posted by rudeney

Some days I wish our HOA would hire a management company! We do it all ourselves.

Trust me, it is hard to collect from your neighbors. I;ve had a few get really angry with me. I just remind them that it's a business transaction and nothign personal and if anyone gives me a reasonable excuse, I let them make payments and waive late fees (especially knowing how hard today's economy is for many of us).

This is the number one reason to get a management company. This way it is a neutral third party that they are dealing with for the money side of it. Seems really unfair to have to make the actual homeowners deal with this side of things. Talk about crapping where you eat!

Also, it gives somewhat of a seperation of powers so to speak. The daily money management is up to them. (the board of course meets and gets all the standard financial reports of course). Much less of a chance for someone to actually missapropriate funds or for there to be any way for someone to falsely accuse current board members of stealing as the info is there for all to see.

Our current management company charges about $60 per lot per year. I have seen ranges from around $40 to over $100 depending on the size of the community and the level of management you want.

[ffemtreed]

Originally Posted by Lee L

Personally, I like living where there are some limits. I agree, that it should not be super restrictive, but no, I do not want someone painting their door moo cow spotted or orange or any other wacky colors.

Why do you care what color my front door is? Does it really affect you if I have a neon green front door with spikes sticking out of it?????

Originally Posted by Lee L

Also, as stated, the reason cables were not allowed on the exterior of the building in the OPs case is due to the fact that the exterior of the building is technically owned and maintained by someone other than the OP.

Again, what is the harm of someone running a cable so they can get TV? There shouldn't need to be laws like OTARD on the books. Its common sense. if the person causes damages to the property you make them repair it or take them to court to recover damages.

Originally Posted by Lee L

As far as grass growing chest high being a local code issue, most cities have rules that do not allow the grass to be over 12 or 18 inches high. This is way too high for a residential community. Plus, it takes the city forever to actually make someone do anythign once it gets that high.

Sounds like a issue on making sure you local codes Dept is doing their job. Most places I been involved in have less than 12" for weed control. If enough people don't like the law, have it changed to 8". If you can't find enough people to help support the law to be changed, well maybe it 12" is a good. Again you don't need a HOA in there to side step the local codes.

Your statement that most HOA's are good is absolutely false, at least in my experiences, I personally only lived in a HOA once for a little over a year, that was enough for me to tuck tail and run, and having conversations with my family, friends, co-workers and etc about HOA they live in NEVER have I heard anything good come from them. This is many difference HOA's, so its just not one bad apple in my area.

[bobcamp1]

Originally Posted by ffemtreed

Wouldn't those weeds be a local code issue? Why do you need a HOA for that? We pay taxes to the local town for code enforcement.

Because the towns are so tiny they can't manage all the people living in them. That's why by law an HOA is mandatory for big subdivisions. I used to live near Lee L in Apex, NC. All the subdivisions NEED an HOA, because they are the ones enforcing the laws. That tiny town couldn't possibly enforce the laws or decide disputes on its own for all of the people living just outside of it.

For example, a neighbor put up a fence which created a blind corner for traffic. I called Apex town hall and they told me to contact my HOA if I wanted something done about it. The HOA immediately stepped in and forced them to move the fence back.

Another time, another neighbor was running a day care center out of her home. There were cars constantly coming and going, which created a traffic hazard, and they were parking on the neighbor's lawns! The HOA clamped down and shut her down. She didn't have a license, nor was the area zoned for business. I'm pretty sure the values of her neighbor's homes went back up after she left.

Up north, towns are actually sub-counties. They are huge in comparison. You pay a lot for the town tax up north, but they do provide everything. Down south, you don't pay hardly any town tax but you do pay an HOA fee.