Grrr! @#$%*&@# R15, and DirecTV in general!

[markjs]

Sorry to be long winded about my DirecTV woes but I need to vent and I wonder how much of it is related to my current problem.

The worst DVR ever made so far as I know and legions of folks online to back it up! In any case I really hate all DVR+ units, I miss TiVo badly, but I can't get one and DirecTV is the only Viable TV option we have where we live!

Here's where I am starting to get very suspicious. We bought a TiVo for $100 split in three payments years ago and when it died was right about the time TiVo and DirecTV parted company. Even then I just had a feeling that they sent a kill signal, but worse yet is that I know we owned the thing, based on things I found out later yet at the time they told me the only way they'd send us an R15 is if we sent the TiVo back. So we have been through numerous R15s and mostly the issues were with the software, but anyway I picked up another TiVo, that my friend had owned from the same promotion with which we got ours that was in working condition when she switched to Dish, yet when I tried to get that fired up it downloaded some updates and never woked again.

So we tried to go to Dish but where we are they can't get line of sight on their Satellite, which is a bummer because everyone I know who has had both Satellite companies vastly prefer Dish in almost every way. So then I got given from this same girl an old R15 and had it activated in another room. It worked fine for about a week and DirecTV got their $5 a month increase (which is lame), but I had originally asked them for a promotion (just a free non HD receiver but existing DirecTV customers are second class citizens who are treated very poorly even when they have been loyal for years), but the damn receiver was going to go about $70 and also the $5 a month, so I thought this R15 was gonna be fine.

About one week later the hard drive in the R15 is shot (another kill signal? I know it sounds paranoid but if you'd been treated like they treat us...?), so I try to do the formatting trick but only of the four R15's we have had, only one of them ever had working arrow and record buttons on the front, and this one's do not work either, so there seems to be no way to send the signal to format the drive!

What is the deal with the front buttons? Two of the R15s came straight from DirecTV non functional, and I don't even know about this unit. It seems to still work fine other than the buttons and the hard drive, but of course it refuses to work even as a receiver alone if the hard drive goes. I'll be damned if I am buying a receiver from those jerks! I would like to just cancel them and start a new account just to get a reasonable deal from them, but I have heard they like to try and screw you if you try something like that as well.

I'd actually be happy if I could just get this silly R15 to work again, or find another free receiver, which you can always find at garage sales when you have no need of one, but then they hide when you do. Is there any way to fix the front buttons? Does anyone have any advice on getting them to make us a new customer again without them trying to screw with us? I just want another room to work and not get ripped off in the process, is that really so much to ask?!?

[sigma1914]

If the R15 is leased, why not get a replacement? And why can't you use a Tivo?

[harsh]

There have been no kill signals.

There have been some decidedly poor software releases, but nothing that should completely brick a DVR.

[The Merg]

DirecTV will replace any defective receiver, owned or leased. If you don't have the Protection Plan, you generally have to pay for shipping ($20), but you can sometimes get that waived.

If you find that your replacement is not working correctly, do not activate it. Or if you have already contact DirecTV for another replacement immediately. If you need a second replacement within 90 days, they usually waive any shipping charges.

As for returning your Tivo when you got the R15... generally if you have a receiver replaced due to it being defective, they will require you to return the defective one. This is to prevent a subscriber for repeatedly saying they have a defective receiver in order to get a new one.

- Merg

[markjs]

So nobody has any ideas on the buttons on the front and if there is a fix? I mean i can see the ribbon that connects them but obviously there is a flaw in the design and I am sure someone somewhere had to know what it is, but even so that wouldn't mean I could easily fix it. Still it would be nice to know anyway....

Well in our case they actually lied and said we did not own the TiVo unit, and they knew at the time I needed it replaced that they would be sending me the dreaded R15. God I wish I had known how poor DirecTV DVR+ units were before I let go of my TiVo, I would have gotten it repaired. Then we had so many troubles with the R15's and every "R" so far, that at one point they lied and promised to send a refurbished Tivo only to send an R15 that promptly had to be sent back.

The thing is that even when the DVR+ are working fine by DirecTV standards they are forever having mishaps with the software and the software is incapable of recognizing recently repeated episodes once the one you viewed first is gone. I guess it has been so long with these poor machines that I actually forget why we loved the TiVo so much, but none of the "R" whatever units has ever been more than tolerable and randomly frustrating.

We are practically desperate for Dish, because all the people around here have switched or had Dish in the first place and all of them love it. I don't know of anyone happy with DirecTV service unless they don't even have DVRs. DirecTV has treated us very poorly as soon as we were contracted, they didn't even make it clear that every time we get a replacement "R" unit (never had one last more than a year) we have a renewal of their contract. Maybe they send that in the fine print on the bill but not a word is ever said on the phone. I don't know why they are so bad and for the first few years with our TiVo we were happy, but all our problems started with the "R" units, and then we got to see how poorly they handle problems.

[harsh]

There is one "R" unit that is a significant departure from the others: the R22.

If the problem is that you want out of your DIRECTV programming commitment, that's NOT going to happen.

[The Merg]

When replacing a defective receiver, your commitment is only extended if the defective unit was owned and you do not have the Protection Plan. Rumor has it though that has even changed to no commitment.

As for repairing the DVR, since it is a lease you don't want to mess with it. Have a replacement sent out along with a recovery kit for the old receiver. Once you confirm the new one works, send the old one back.

I've had an R15 for a few years now and have not had any issues with the hardware. The software has improved significantly though since I first got it. In regards to not recording shows correctly, while that was an issue a few years ago with the R15, recent issues are usually directly related to the Guide Data that is supplied to DirecTV from Tribune Media Services.

And as I stated, anytime you have a receiver replaced due to it being defective, DirecTV will almost always request the defective receiver back (owned or leased) to prevent fraud.

- Merg

[rudeney]

Originally Posted by markjs

So nobody has any ideas on the buttons on the front and if there is a fix? I mean i can see the ribbon that connects them but obviously there is a flaw in the design and I am sure someone somewhere had to know what it is, but even so that wouldn't mean I could easily fix it. Still it would be nice to know anyway....

If this R15 is leased (look on your bill to see if you are being charged a "lease fee" or "additional receiver"), then you should not be opening it; you need to just call D* and make the replace it. Given the problems you have had, I suggest writing a nicely-worded w-mail to Ellen.Filipiak@directv.com. She is VP over customer service and her office is there to respond to serious, chronic problems like this.

We are practically desperate for Dish, because all the people around here have switched or had Dish in the first place and all of them love it.

It sounds like you should switch. It will likely cost you some money in ETF's, but if you are truly as frustrated as you sound, then it will be worth it.

I don't know of anyone happy with DirecTV service unless they don't even have DVRs. DirecTV has treated us very poorly as soon as we were contracted

I have also been treated poorly by D* on occasion, but I still like their product. I have four HD-DVR's and one R15. They aren't perfect, but they work for me.

they didn't even make it clear that every time we get a replacement "R" unit (never had one last more than a year) we have a renewal of their contract. Maybe they send that in the fine print on the bill but not a word is ever said on the phone.

This is not their policy, although it seems that it is "all too easy" for CSR's to "accidentally" extend contracts when activating a replacement receiver. The only time your contract should be extended is when you activate an additional receiver, not a warranty replacement. You definitely should contact Ellen.Filipiak@directv.com about this to have it corrected.

[markjs]

I got it working but bad info on this site and a hard drive that appeared to be good but wasn't was plaguing me. This is the R15 500 and for whatever reason none of the front buttons work at all when the hard drive goes down. The best info I found in my searches here told me that pressing the record and down button was necessary to start the formatting process, but it wasn't. Just stick a good PATA hard drive of approximate size and formatted single partition NTFS, and simply powering the machine up starts the very lengthy format. I have no idea if this is a 7200RPM drive though so I have some concerns, but the is really just used a a receiver, and that is all I wanted. A receiver without having to buy something that they make money off of anyway.

We were given this DVR by a defector and I just called and they activated for me but there was a $5 monthly fee added to our bill. I could have seen perhaps paying for a receiver if they waived the monthly fee, but I'll be damned if I am going to buy something that I have to rent after I own it. They were quite clear that adding any receiver to any room would incur the $5 charge. Trouble is you never know if you are going to get someone on the phone who was hired last week and learned English a month ago, and I have gotten so much poor information from those guys in the past I am just fed up.

We can't get line of sight on Dish satellites, due to trees not on our property. Fun fun fun! The local Cable company's lineup is so pathetic and more expensive than Dish or DirecTV. I think they may have 100 channels available minus movies in total. I am always baffled when I am at anyone's house here that has cable TV, and I would even sing the praises of DirecTV to them. If we had Comcast we'd have cable but we have something pathetic called Broadstripe and the internet rocks, but all the rest of their services are largely worthless.

Well I am powering up the DVR now, so I'll let you know in a few...!

*cross fingers*

Works fine! Thanks for the the help, and I learned some things, so it was worth the trouble, since I am PC tech and I have loads of hard drives at my disposal for free anyway, I really can't complain.

[harsh]

Originally Posted by markjs

We were given this DVR by a defector and I just called and they activated for me but there was a $5 monthly fee added to our bill. I could have seen perhaps paying for a receiver if they waived the monthly fee, but I'll be damned if I am going to buy something that I have to rent after I own it.

Please recall, as you have been admonished above, all pay TV programming providers charge a fee for any additional "boxes" you have. It doesn't matter if you rent or own the box. In the case of DIRECTV, the fee is the same whether you rent or own.

Think of it as a "seat" or a "CAL" in your license to watch DIRECTV content.

[The Merg]

Originally Posted by markjs

I got it working but bad info on this site and a hard drive that appeared to be good but wasn't was plaguing me. This is the R15 500 and for whatever reason none of the front buttons work at all when the hard drive goes down. The best info I found in my searches here told me that pressing the record and down button was necessary to start the formatting process, but it wasn't. Just stick a good PATA hard drive of approximate size and formatted single partition NTFS, and simply powering the machine up starts the very lengthy format. I have no idea if this is a 7200RPM drive though so I have some concerns, but the is really just used a a receiver, and that is all I wanted. A receiver without having to buy something that they make money off of anyway.

We were given this DVR by a defector and I just called and they activated for me but there was a $5 monthly fee added to our bill. I could have seen perhaps paying for a receiver if they waived the monthly fee, but I'll be damned if I am going to buy something that I have to rent after I own it. They were quite clear that adding any receiver to any room would incur the $5 charge. Trouble is you never know if you are going to get someone on the phone who was hired last week and learned English a month ago, and I have gotten so much poor information from those guys in the past I am just fed up.

We can't get line of sight on Dish satellites, due to trees not on our property. Fun fun fun! The local Cable company's lineup is so pathetic and more expensive than Dish or DirecTV. I think they may have 100 channels available minus movies in total. I am always baffled when I am at anyone's house here that has cable TV, and I would even sing the praises of DirecTV to them. If we had Comcast we'd have cable but we have something pathetic called Broadstripe and the internet rocks, but all the rest of their services are largely worthless.

Well I am powering up the DVR now, so I'll let you know in a few...!

*cross fingers*

Works fine! Thanks for the the help, and I learned some things, so it was worth the trouble, since I am PC tech and I have loads of hard drives at my disposal for free anyway, I really can't complain.

Where/what bad information did you receive here? Maybe we can clarify the information you received.

Not sure what you mean about the front buttons not working when the drive goes down. I suppose if the drive has failed completely (maybe no power or not enough power for it to run) that it could not even start to perform the format process.

Be aware that most receivers used by customers are leased and not owned. If you were given this receiver from someone, you might want to verify with DirecTV that it is in fact owned. It is a violation of the equipment lease agreement to open up and modify the receiver in any way. If you call up DirecTV and talk to Access Card Department, they can tell you if the receiver is marked as owned or leased on your account.

As for the fees, what you pay when you "purchase" a receiver is called an up-front lease fee. While that amount is generally more than what you would pay for a box from cable, the monthly fee for maintaining that box on your account is usually a lot less. In DirecTV's case, the monthly fee you pay is $5 for each receiver after the first one. This monthly fee is so that DirecTV can mirror your subscription package to the additional receivers and you don't need to pay for a full package for each receiver. Also, if you have a DVR(s) on your account, you need to pay a $6 DVR fee. The DVR fee covers the whole account and is not per receiver.

- Merg

[Keybounce]

Quality of R15 Dvr: Trust me, it's NOT the worst thing out there. Adelphia. Moxi. Trust me, it's NOT the worst thing out there.

Direct TV versus Dish: Out here, all the people we know that have Dish have a DVR that is so pathetic and poor it makes Moxi look good (Nothing can make Adelphia look good). If these companies want more people to switch, then they need to remember that the best advertisement is happy, satisfied customers with good equipment. Remember that "Get a friend to switch and get $100"? The Dish DVR's are so bad that our dish friends cannot recommend the equipment; if anyone were to ask me, I'd talk about the problems I have when this thing fills up (and believe me, "Disk nearly full" is the normal state of any decent computer system).

I'm serious. Out here, if you didn't have "You're locked in for two years and cannot switch", if either company put good equipment in customer's hands, they'd wind up with 100% of the customers. And with horrible ("none") over-the-air signals, that's significant.

Have both companies forgotten this?

[markjs]

Originally Posted by The Merg

Where/what bad information did you receive here? Maybe we can clarify the information you received....

Did I stutter when I said:

Originally Posted by markjs

I got it working but bad info on this site and a hard drive that appeared to be good but wasn't was plaguing me. This is the R15 500 and for whatever reason none of the front buttons work at all when the hard drive goes down. The best info I found in my searches here told me that pressing the record and down button was necessary to start the formatting process, but it wasn't. Just stick a good PATA hard drive of approximate size and formatted single partition NTFS, and simply powering the machine up starts the very lengthy format....

Perhaps on older revisions that would be a necessary step, but for me it just ended up confusing and caused a lot of frustration and wasted time trying to get a drive that wouldn't work for the DVR to work.

Originally Posted by The Merg

....Not sure what you mean about the front buttons not working when the drive goes down. I suppose if the drive has failed completely (maybe no power or not enough power for it to run) that it could not even start to perform the format process....

Again, answered before asked:

Originally Posted by markjs

....for whatever reason none of the front buttons work at all when the hard drive goes down....

The front buttons do not work at all until it has a working hard drive that is already formatted on this unit. The formatting takes place as soon as you have a good drive installed that was formatted with NTFS prior to installation. This is all I know but at least it was from direct experience. I suppose if you just want to format your drive then using the record and down buttons work, but it seems to be a worthless idea if the drive isn't good to go.

Originally Posted by The Merg

....Be aware that most receivers used by customers are leased and not owned. If you were given this receiver from someone, you might want to verify with DirecTV that it is in fact owned. It is a violation of the equipment lease agreement to open up and modify the receiver in any way. If you call up DirecTV and talk to Access Card Department, they can tell you if the receiver is marked as owned or leased on your account....

Well since I had to call and give them all the relevant identifying numbers and they activated it for me, also having been told by the friend I got it from that it was hers, I think that is a pretty much all I needed.

I am also not "Joe average idiot", I work on PCs for a living, I personally don't open up things I know nothing about, or am not absolutely confident of my ability to service, or not mess up trying.

Originally Posted by The Merg

....As for the fees, what you pay when you "purchase" a receiver is called an up-front lease fee. While that amount is generally more than what you would pay for a box from cable, the monthly fee for maintaining that box on your account is usually a lot less. In DirecTV's case, the monthly fee you pay is $5 for each receiver after the first one. This monthly fee is so that DirecTV can mirror your subscription package to the additional receivers and you don't need to pay for a full package for each receiver. Also, if you have a DVR(s) on your account, you need to pay a $6 DVR fee. The DVR fee covers the whole account and is not per receiver.

All I know is when they first sold us our DVR (and they clearly said it was ours because I asked), they did not take the receiver it replaced and when I asked them they said that was ours to do with as we pleased. I cannot remember for the life of me what happened to it but to me, being told that I had to buy (yes again they said buy not lease) a receiver for the privilege of paying more monthly, when I see how little they actually care about this equipment kind of irks me. I am not in denial of reality on this issue, and I am not telling you you ought to disagree with their policies, it's just my opinion, and I don't need your opinion to try to prove my opinion wrong as that is not possible (see dictionary.com re: opinion). You may be made of money to throw at them, I however, am not.

[red.bean.head]

I believe the front panel button press for formatting the drive was disabled either with the last SW revision or the one prior, don't recal. Anyhow, the only way to format your hard drive now is via the user interface. I believe you press Menu => Settings => System Setup => Reset => Reset Everything. I believe this is the order. Once you access Reset Everything you confirm it & the formatting begins. It takes about 2+ hrs to complete but puts your R15 back in a virgin state with Hard Drive completely wiped out. You have to go through the Guided Set up & you should be good after this. I found this out after formatting my R15, worked like a charm.

[ThomasM]

Originally Posted by red.bean.head

I believe the front panel button press for formatting the drive was disabled either with the last SW revision or the one prior, don't recal. Anyhow, the only way to format your hard drive now is via the user interface. I believe you press Menu => Settings => System Setup => Reset => Reset Everything. I believe this is the order. Once you access Reset Everything you confirm it & the formatting begins. It takes about 2+ hrs to complete but puts your R15 back in a virgin state with Hard Drive completely wiped out. You have to go through the Guided Set up & you should be good after this. I found this out after formatting my R15, worked like a charm.

I don't think that's true. The "reset everything" selection does just that....but it doesn't reformat the HDD....unless it finds something wrong. I don't think DirecTV would like users reformatting their HDD's without being talked through it by a customer service rep.

I would be more likely to assume that the front panel command for reformatting the HDD isn't working for the thread originator because as he keeps saying "the front panel buttons aren't working".

I can't speak for the R15-500, but the R15-300 is a very solid, excellent DVR. I have TWO of them and I like them a lot more than the R22 which I also have.

I would suspect that most of the issues with the poster's R15 are due to it's unhappy life with the person who "defected" from DirecTV and gave it to him. Obtaining low-cost (or free) handoffs from other customers or ex-customers is like buying a used car. Remember the old saying that you are "just buying somebody else's headaches"? It seems to apply here.

Finally, DirecTV doesn't send out "kill" signals that damage hardware or destroy access cards. They do have a signal that DISABLES the DVR function but allows a DVR to watch live TV. If you try to access a DVR function, a message appears telling you that your account does not have DVR access enabled. This also blocks you from viewing previously-recorded shows.

[red.bean.head]

Originally Posted by ThomasM

I don't think that's true. The "reset everything" selection does just that....but it doesn't reformat the HDD....unless it finds something wrong. I don't think DirecTV would like users reformatting their HDD's without being talked through it by a customer service rep.

I would be more likely to assume that the front panel command for reformatting the HDD isn't working for the thread originator because as he keeps saying "the front panel buttons aren't working".

Thomas, I am quite confident this is the case, trust me, a lil' birdie told me ;-)

[Jhon69]

Originally Posted by Keybounce

Quality of R15 Dvr: Trust me, it's NOT the worst thing out there. Adelphia. Moxi. Trust me, it's NOT the worst thing out there.

Direct TV versus Dish: Out here, all the people we know that have Dish have a DVR that is so pathetic and poor it makes Moxi look good (Nothing can make Adelphia look good). If these companies want more people to switch, then they need to remember that the best advertisement is happy, satisfied customers with good equipment. Remember that "Get a friend to switch and get $100"? The Dish DVR's are so bad that our dish friends cannot recommend the equipment; if anyone were to ask me, I'd talk about the problems I have when this thing fills up (and believe me, "Disk nearly full" is the normal state of any decent computer system).

I'm serious. Out here, if you didn't have "You're locked in for two years and cannot switch", if either company put good equipment in customer's hands, they'd wind up with 100% of the customers. And with horrible ("none") over-the-air signals, that's significant.

Have both companies forgotten this?

I'm using Dish's 625 and it works good.

[Jhon69]

Originally Posted by harsh

There is one "R" unit that is a significant departure from the others: the R22.

If the problem is that you want out of your DIRECTV programming commitment, that's NOT going to happen.

+1

I agree.

[The Merg]

Originally Posted by markjs

Did I stutter when I said:

I didn't look at it that the best info you found was considered to be bad info. The info you received was true, but in your case it just did not work. I was just trying to see specifically what bad you info had received to see if we could help you out better. If something doesn't work people here will do their best to help you out.

Originally Posted by markjs

Perhaps on older revisions that would be a necessary step, but for me it just ended up confusing and caused a lot of frustration and wasted time trying to get a drive that wouldn't work for the DVR to work.

The front buttons do not work at all until it has a working hard drive that is already formatted on this unit. The formatting takes place as soon as you have a good drive installed that was formatted with NTFS prior to installation. This is all I know but at least it was from direct experience. I suppose if you just want to format your drive then using the record and down buttons work, but it seems to be a worthless idea if the drive isn't good to go.

I was only trying to determine specifically what happened when you hit the front buttons. Just stating that it doesn't work is not always an accurate statement (as you know from working on computers). I was trying to get at if anything came up on the screen, did it "bong" at you, or did it try to do something and fail.

As for the front buttons not working being a worthless idea if the drive is dead, the format feature is not designed for the end user. It is there to be performed at the request of a CSR or for a technician to use. If the drive has failed completely, there is no need to try to format the unit as DirecTV would then just replace it.

Originally Posted by markjs

Well since I had to call and give them all the relevant identifying numbers and they activated it for me, also having been told by the friend I got it from that it was hers, I think that is a pretty much all I needed.

As I stated in my post, most of the R15 DVR's out there are leased and not owned. The lease model started in March 2006 and although there are some owned receivers out there, most are leased. DirecTV at that time was also very lacking in notifying their subsribers that the receiver they were "purchasing" was a lease and would not be owned. People would often "buy" a receiver at a retailer and only later find out it was a lease. So, even though your friend might have thought they owned the box, it is possible it was a lease. And while you should not have been able to activate the box if it was a lease, it is possible for it to happen. I was just suggesting that you contact DirecTV (the Access Card Team, specifically) and confirm the box is on your account as owned and not leased.

Originally Posted by markjs

I am also not "Joe average idiot", I work on PCs for a living, I personally don't open up things I know nothing about, or am not absolutely confident of my ability to service, or not mess up trying.

I don't believe I ever claimed you were an average Joe, however, in your posts you also don't state your experience level. These were the first posts I saw of yours and I have no idea as to what your experience level is. I also work on PCs and don't work on something unless I'm confident about it either. I was only trying to point out that if the box is a lease that opening it up is a violation of the lease agreement. Most people don't know that so I was throwing out that reminder.

Originally Posted by markjs

All I know is when they first sold us our DVR (and they clearly said it was ours because I asked), they did not take the receiver it replaced and when I asked them they said that was ours to do with as we pleased. I cannot remember for the life of me what happened to it but to me, being told that I had to buy (yes again they said buy not lease) a receiver for the privilege of paying more monthly, when I see how little they actually care about this equipment kind of irks me. I am not in denial of reality on this issue, and I am not telling you you ought to disagree with their policies, it's just my opinion, and I don't need your opinion to try to prove my opinion wrong as that is not possible (see dictionary.com re: opinion). You may be made of money to throw at them, I however, am not.

I don't know when you got your first DVR, but as stated, the lease model started in March 2006. And as I also stated, at that time DirecTV was very bad with notifying subscribers of that when they "purchased" new DVRs. It is also most likely that the receiver that the DVR replaced was owned or too old for DirecTV to want back and thus the reason why they told you to keep it.

As for the monthly fee, the $5 per month fee is a monthly lease fee or an additional receiver fee (depending on if the recevier is a lease or owned) and allows DirecTV to mirror your subscription package to the additional receivers. The fee is not needed for the first receiver on your account. I wasn't saying that I like paying the fee, I was just telling you what it was.

As for having money to throw around, I definitely do not. I have a minimal package and only 2 receivers to keep my costs down.

I hope you get things worked out.

- Merg