Dish HD Resolution just 480i?

mark8arm · 03-09-06, 01:59 PM

Hi There,
I've tried doing searches here, but couldn't find any definitive answer to what resolution Dish transmitted HD channels at. So I "chatted" with Dish on their website, and here's part of the transcript:

Moises:
Thank you for choosing Dish Network, my name is Moises, how may I help you today?

Mark:
Hi, Can you tell me what resolution your HD channels are actually transmitted at?

Moises:
480i

Is that really correct? Isn't 480i the same as DVD? - doesn't seem very "HD" to me. Does DirecTV do the same thing (or do I need to head over to one of their forums?). Thanks!
-Mark

Mikey · 03-09-06, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark8arm

Hi There,
I've tried doing searches here, but couldn't find any definitive answer to what resolution Dish transmitted HD channels at. So I "chatted" with Dish on their website, and here's part of the transcript:

Moises:
Thank you for choosing Dish Network, my name is Moises, how may I help you today?

Mark:
Hi, Can you tell me what resolution your HD channels are actually transmitted at?

Moises:
480i

Is that really correct? Isn't 480i the same as DVD? - doesn't seem very "HD" to me. Does DirecTV do the same thing (or do I need to head over to one of their forums?). Thanks!
-Mark

Hi Mark -

You've discovered what most of us here know, that Dish CS is clueless. The Dish HD channels are broadcast in either 1080i or 720p.

ken310 · 03-09-06, 02:08 PM

I'm told the hd content is either 720p or 1080i depending on how it's broadcast.

I wonder if there's a difference between mpeg2 and 4?

looks like we were typing at the same time Mikey.

mark8arm · 03-09-06, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey

Hi Mark -

You've discovered what most of us here know, that Dish CS is clueless. The Dish HD channels are broadcast in either 1080i or 720p.

Maybe 480i is the resolution for their SD channels - does that make more sense?
-Mark

tomcrown1 · 03-09-06, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark8arm

Maybe 480i is the resolution for their SD channels - does that make more sense?
-Mark

Dish does upconvert sd to 480I

CCarncross · 03-09-06, 04:54 PM

SD programming IS 480i, HD programming varies by channel and can be either 720p, or 1080i...any decent HDTV should be able to tell you the resolution of the signal it is getting, so its a question easily answered

ken310 · 03-09-06, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCarncross

any decent HDTV should be able to tell you the resolution of the signal it is getting, so its a question easily answered

Where would that be?

**Stewart Vernon** · 03-09-06, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCarncross

SD programming IS 480i, HD programming varies by channel and can be either 720p, or 1080i...any decent HDTV should be able to tell you the resolution of the signal it is getting, so its a question easily answered

Not exactly... TVs might tell you the signal they are getting from the receiver... but that may or may not be the resolution of the channel!

Since there is no native pass-through option, Dish HD receivers either output 480, 720, or 1080 for all channels on the HD outputs according to your menu setting... so even an SD channel would "appear" to your TV as a 720 or 1080 signal if that is how you configure the receiver to upconvert.

As far as I know there is no way (other than those who have some modified receivers) for the average user to know what Dish is sending down via the satellites.

ken310 · 03-09-06, 06:03 PM

I was wondering about that since I'd consider my Sony to be a "decent" tv but I don't see anywhere in the menu telling me that info?

**James Long** · 03-09-06, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCarncross

any decent HDTV should be able to tell you the resolution of the signal it is getting, so its a question easily answered

Unfortunately my HDTV is getting the signal from my E* receiver ... so all it tells me is the OUTPUT of the receiver, not the format that anything is transmitted via satellite.

mark8arm · 03-09-06, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCarncross

SD programming IS 480i, HD programming varies by channel and can be either 720p, or 1080i...any decent HDTV should be able to tell you the resolution of the signal it is getting, so its a question easily answered

Easily answered if you have an HDTV and E*. I'm still in research mode though.

mitch672 · 03-09-06, 07:48 PM

Actually, Dish uses 1080i for very few HD channels, the list is very short..
They use a "hybrid", made up, HD format, many are calling "HD lite", which is 1280 x 1080, 1080i is "supposed" to be 1920 x 1080, 720P is "supposed" to be 1280 x 720, dish is neither, for most of the Voom channels, for example...

See these websites for a detailed discussion:

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/hdchan.htm

http://stophdlite.com/hdlite/hdlite.html

Note 3: from the first link:
The VOOM channels are being broadcast in a reduced resolution "ED+" format of 1280x1080i. One unconfirmed explanation is that there is a temporary bandwidth bottleneck from VOOM to Dish. Another is that Dish is intentionally reducing the quality after seeing that other providers seem to be getting away with doing the same. Whatever the truth may be, Dish has not stated when or if the problem will be fixed while continuing to promote the whole package as HD. Complaints of false advertising may be directed to the FTC at 1-877-382-4357. More details at http://www.stophdlite.com/.

Mitch

ken310 · 03-09-06, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark8arm

Easily answered if you have an HDTV and E*. I'm still in research mode though.

Look at a Sony KD-34XBR960, it's the hdtv cnet and others use as a standard for hdtv's or was up to less then a year ago (lest I step on ?) They use/d it side by side to compare all the hdtv's. It's about a year out now so you can't get it at Sony but use google and you can probably pick on up for 12 to $1,400. Only draw back is it weighs in at 196 lbs so if your planning to move I might not buy one

Mikey · 03-09-06, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch672

Actually, Dish uses 1080i for very few HD channels, the list is very short..
They use a "hybrid", made up, HD format, many are calling "HD lite", which is 1280 x 1080, 1080i is "supposed" to be 1920 x 1080, 720P is "supposed" to be 1280 x 720, dish is neither, for most of the Voom channels, for example...
...

It's still 1080i or 720p, with the majority at 1080i.

mitch672 · 03-09-06, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey

It's still 1080i or 720p, with the majority at 1080i.

Nope Mikey, I have the FULL Voom package on my 622, I had VOOM when they where an independent DBS company. It used to look better... Did you read about HDLite? 1280 X 1024 is NOT 1080i. 1920 x 1080 is 1080i.

Dish simply does not have the bandwidth available to put the HD channels up in their glorius 1080i original format, that is the sad truth.

Mitch

ken310 · 03-09-06, 08:46 PM

If there's one thing I've learned it's that nothing seems to be pat nor is it standing still. Saying what is today may differ tomorrow and there seems to be few absolutes. Even the techs have different interpretations of the data of the day. It is nice when someone stands in with a definitive answer.

So mpeg2 Voom is hd lite and the mpeg4 Voom is 1080i or 720p hd ?

Yet another nail in mpeg2's coffin ?

Mikey · 03-09-06, 08:46 PM

1280x1080i is HD lite. They save bandwidth by decreasing the horizontal resolution, but it's still interlaced.

**James Long** · 03-09-06, 08:56 PM

The whole "HD Lite" thing started with a hacker (which is not a derogatory term in this sense since he was not a "pirate" type hacker who steals programming but just a guy who has "peeked under the hood" into how things work). He noticed via his modified equiment that some of the HD streams were not 1920x1080i.

We've been over the issue so many times that it's practially boring. SD channels have consistantly been transmitted via satellite in "less than full resolution" and we don't have cries of "SD Lite". We've even had members post the specs that show 1280x1080i as a VALID HD format for satellite. This isn't some unique hack that E* is doing - they are just following a valid standard for the transmission of HD.

It helps the "HD Lite" crusader's argument that 15 of the 25 national channels on E* are provided by Voom - anything Voom does automatically becomes the majority of E*'s HD. It also helps that crowd that of the 10 remaining channels two are native 720p. The eight remaining channels transmitted in 1920x1080i become a "short list".

Crusaders are hard to make happy anyways. Now excuse me, I have some SD Lite satellite TV to watch.

mitch672 · 03-09-06, 09:10 PM

James,

Don't get me wrong, the HD channels on Dish are just fine, there just not as good as they could possibly be. They are doing this since most people have 720P sets anyway, and the difference is not that noticable. When 1080i sets become more predominant, it will be more noticable. The OTA HD locals, on the primetime shows are mostly 1080i native, so you might notice the difference comparing one of those OTA channels to a Dish 1280 x 1080 channel.. might being the keyword.

MPEG4 or MPEG2 makes no difference, although the whole idea behind going to MPEG4 is to get more resolution/channels per 45MB transponder. Dish ran tests on 148W a little while ago, and was able to get 2 HD 720P channels and 4 SD channels per transponder, using MPEG4. This is ultimatley the target goal for their conversion of the system to all MPEG4, eventually.

Mitch

ken310 · 03-09-06, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Long

We've been over the issue so many times that it's practially boring.
Crusaders are hard to make happy anyways. Now excuse me, I have some SD Lite satellite TV to watch.

If it's boring? Why make it more so by chiming in with useless info?

**James Long** · 03-09-06, 09:24 PM

Even at 1080i it depends a lot on what kind of set one has (ie: tube vs plasma) and how one has that set adjusted (don't turn the sharpeness 100% on).

E* is doing four OTA HDs per transponder in true MPEG4 in most local markets. (There's another argument that has been beaten to death: Is it MPEG4?) That is two 720p and two 1080i or better (depending on what the local stations are using).

E* is certainly doing better at keeping the quality up with "HD Lite" and MPEG4 locals than they have with certain SD networks and SD locals.