$299 lindows pc at Wal Mart

lee635 · 07-16-02, 01:12 PM

Has anyone tried one of these beasts?

RE: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...3A3951%3A41937

gcutler · 07-16-02, 05:05 PM

"Monitor and floppy disk drive are not included. " I can deal with the monitor, but how much do they save by not including the Floppy drive?

Looks like a great intro machine or a 2nd machine for the kids room. I just wonder how well Lindows works. That is one variation of Linux I have not tinkered with??? Tried to download Lindows, but they say they want a $99/year membership. I will pay shipping cost and an inconvenience cost to get a CD delivered at home, but I won't pay to download the software.

Bogy · 07-16-02, 05:50 PM

I think we are going to see a lot more machines with no floppy drive.

I wonder how much of a hassle it would be to wipe lindows off and install one of the OS's I already have?

gcutler · 07-16-02, 06:05 PM

I bet you could probably take any bootable OS CD and install it fine. I doubt that there is anything that is on those machines that isn't supported by ME or 2000 or XP. If anything those machines were using older tech parts so I'd assume XP would support all components right out of the box. I have installed OS/2, NT, Win2000 Server, Netware Server on every desktop machine I have owned in the past 15 years and never had a problem, so your putting 98/ME/2K/XP on that machine should be pretty easy.

MarkA · 07-16-02, 06:18 PM

'I wonder how much of a hassle it would be to wipe lindows off and install one of the OS's I already have?"

Absolutely none. If it's Windows you want to install, it would be illegal however

James_F · 07-16-02, 06:27 PM

Only if its an OEM version. If he has a boxed version of Windows, than as long as he only has one computer, it isn't a violation of the license. I'm not sure about XP though, I think they did change the way licenses are done....

Bogy · 07-16-02, 11:40 PM

As an example, if I were to do this, my son is currently using an old P75 with a licensed copy of Windows. Does fine for e-mail and IM and to do his homework. For $300 I could upgrade him significantly, strip the old computer for any usable parts (say like a floppy drive) and since the old computer is no longer usable, I could replace the Lindows with Windows and install everything that is currently on the old computer.
Obviously I would have to do it this way because I would never use an unauthorized copy of any Microsoft product.

James_F · 07-16-02, 11:48 PM

You can only transfer the license if its not an OEM version, IE it came with a computer. You need a retail version to transfer. I believe that also matters for upgrades. You can't use an OEM disk to upgrade another computer, you need to purchase a full version of windows instead. So, if your version of windows (i assume win95) came with the computer, its an OEM version. You'd have to purchase a full version of WinXP or WinME which would run you at least $150 to $200.... This is why people get pissed at Microsoft. You can buy Linux, or MacOS for much less than you can buy a full version of windows. If cost is an issue, I'd either buy a used PC with a copy of windows, this Lindows computer or a cheap eMachines or something like that.... Maybe a referb from Dell with a warranty.

MarkA · 07-17-02, 12:04 AM

You can transfer the license just fine, but his windows is probably OEM which you can't LEGALLY transfer (I'm pretty honest and I'd have no problem with using it on another PC). Of course the disc usually won't work, XP is superior, and XP Home OEM runs as little as $90. Plus, I don't usually support piracy. But this is Microsoft and all you wanna do is transfer a license... BTW, XP can be transfered - you just have to call Microsoft.

I've helped a couple friends install XP Pro corp (here's a hint - they didn't buy 5 licenses

In fact they bought none and used corp because it doesn't have PA). And I didn't feel guilty (one, THEY'RE the sinners. I just helped them by telling them how to install XP over the phone (and at school in one case, the guy brought his box into school. And that guy decided he didn't even like XP because his computer was too slow and went back to his legal copy of 2000 Pro). Two, I shelled out my $199 for XP Pro so I'm clean!)

Bogy · 07-17-02, 12:18 AM

My understanding has always been that you could only use one copy on one computer at a time. As an old unopened copy of MS-DOS 6 says (just happens to be where I can reach it right now)
"When you get a new computer you have a choice to make concerning your Microsoft software.
You my setup your software on your new computer if you delete it from your old computer.
OR
If you leave your software on your old computer you need to purchase additional software for your new computer."

Now I realize that DOS 6 is pretty old, but my understanding was that this was still the basic principle. If you bought a copy of a Microsoft program you could use it on one computer, with one user at a time. This is basically what a copy of Office I have setting here says.
My understanding, and experience has always been that I could move my copy of windows to any new computer I bought or built. When I have upgraded I can do a clean install as long as I can prove I have the prior disc available. At least it doesn't make you go all the way back. I'd hate to have to go back to DOS 3, my original full version non-upgrade OS on my own computer. It is still the same computer, kind of, because I have never started completely over with no previous parts making the transition. Now if Bill Gates wants to come and explain this to me, he is welcome, but he better be aware that I will hit him up for a contribution to a pastor in the denomination in which he was confirmed.
My understanding is that XP is licensed differently, and that is why I probably won't buy a copy anytime soon.

MarkA · 07-17-02, 01:05 AM

XP is not licensed differently (I don't think the EULA has changed in a LONG time significantly). The license is enforced however. It's not a big deal. XP makes an encrypted hash code from the value of each component. It sends that to Microsoft anonymously, and that product key can't be re registered without calling Microsoft. The hardware can be changed, but not significantly (the number of devices you can change depends on how many you have. A network card counts for, I believe, 3 votes due to it's unique MAC address). It's not a big deal. Worst case, you call Microsoft and explain why you need the key cleared for reactivation. As long as your explanation sounds at all reasonable, they'll clear the old activation and activate it right there on the phone by giving you a 50 digit number to key in unique to your now current config. If you install on a new PC, same thing. You can still transfer the license - it just takes a short (hold times are basically non existant) phone call for a change in activation. No, I don't like it. Yes, thanks to both the corporate pro (no activation) and the Blue List keygen (generates completely valid, unique, keys which even Microsoft can't tell aren't real (you can activate on them)) it does no good. It just hurts us legitimate users. But it doesn't hurt us that bad. Besides, Microsoft has suceeded even though they have failed. They never expected to stop piracy. They just expected people to realize they weren't allowed to put Windows on two computers. They still can if they have half a brain, but Product Activation makes them look and see what the agreement says. At that point, Microsoft expects the good, honest person inside of you to go out to the store instead of online to a p2p swap service to get Blue List (and honestly, I think that works).

James_F · 07-17-02, 09:11 AM

You can't transfer and OEM version of windows. This means that you couldn't take a Windows 2000 that came with a Dell and put it on a homemade computer. What this also means is that you can't buy an upgrade for windows xp and use the windows 2000 as your "upgrade" OS. You'd have to purchase a full version of windows xp for at least $199.

Bogy, you are correct about DOS 3. It was a retail version of DOS and you can install it on different computers as long as its one at a time.

Stealing software is a crime. It doesn't matter how much you may hate microsoft. If you need new software, buy it legally. I run a software development group and we have trouble with our clients transfering the software around in violation of our license. We have to charge more for the software to combat lost revenue that we would get if these clients would pay for the right to use our software.

MarkA · 07-17-02, 11:00 AM

I agree about buying the software no matter how much you hate Microsoft. But seriously, when you're 18 with very little income you sure feel that $199 come out of your pocket. BTW, XP Home OEM (a LEGAL OEM for yourself sold with hardware) costs only about $90. XP Pro is under $200 OEM. (though I bought retail since I did have a 98 upgrade disc)

James_F · 07-17-02, 11:06 AM

Ok, but why not download Linux free? I'm not passing judgement, its just stealing software is wrong.

Bogy · 07-17-02, 11:34 AM

I think the misunderstanding is that a dealer may not legally sell me a copy of OEM without also selling me a computer, as a standalone product. But once I have purchased the computer with the software, the license is mine, and I can transfer the software to another computer as long as the software is removed from the original computer.

James_F · 07-17-02, 12:19 PM

Here is what the license.txt file says on Windows 98. Its different on WinXP which is my other computer...

Quote:

2. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND LIMITATIONS.
...
(j) Software Product Transfer.
You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this EULA only
as part of a permanent sale or transfer of the HARDWARE, provided
you retain no copies, you transfer all of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT
(including all component parts, the media and printed materials, any
upgrades, this EULA and, if applicable, the Certificate(s) of Authenticity),
and the recipient agrees to the terms of this EULA. If the SOFTWARE
PRODUCT is an upgrade, any transfer must also include all prior versions
of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.

So Bogy, you would be violating the OEM agreement with the software you purchased. By breaking the seal on the software you are held in agreement to Microsoft's license agreement. The license of windows must stay with the hardware that the OEM came with.

James_F · 07-17-02, 12:21 PM

Here is something interesting I found on Cnet...

http://news.com.com/2100-1017-274071.html?legacy=cnet

gcutler · 07-17-02, 12:36 PM

I think there is a moral difference between someone installing software they have purchased for a previous machine (and are no longer using on the original machine) and software they have never purchased. Legal is a different argument than moral...

Except for the MS world, at the company I am at, we will have the Lawers make changes to the liscensee agreement so that the software can either be left on the original machine and given to a different person or the SW can folllow the person. As long as the SW license is never used by more than one person or one machine, we consider that "Kosher". If the vendor dosen't like that change, then we go somewhere else. OF course you can't bargain with MS.

Bogy · 07-17-02, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James_F
Here is what the license.txt file says on Windows 98. Its different on WinXP which is my other computer...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND LIMITATIONS.
...
(j) Software Product Transfer.
You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this EULA only
as part of a permanent sale or transfer of the HARDWARE, provided
you retain no copies, you transfer all of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT
(including all component parts, the media and printed materials, any
upgrades, this EULA and, if applicable, the Certificate(s) of Authenticity),
and the recipient agrees to the terms of this EULA. If the SOFTWARE
PRODUCT is an upgrade, any transfer must also include all prior versions
of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.

So Bogy, you would be violating the OEM agreement with the software you purchased. By breaking the seal on the software you are held in agreement to Microsoft's license agreement. The license of windows must stay with the hardware that the OEM came with.

Yes, I WOULD be violating the agreement if I sold or gave away the old computer with the OS installed, but kept the documentation for myself, while installing the OS on another computer. But that is NOT the scenario I presented. The EULA only addresses the issue of transferring the EULA, it does not spell out what happens in the scenario I presented. As I pointed out earlier, DOS 6 did spell that out, but somewhere along the line that issue got fuzzy, to say the least. Therefore, I would hold that the old agreement would still be the rule, since they do not specifically state anything different.

James_F · 07-18-02, 12:18 AM

Do what you want. EULAs are different for different OEM manufacturers. Look for a license.txt file in your windows directory. If it doesn't say you can't transfer the license, they go ahead. Microsoft isn't going to be going after you... I feel you are breaking both the letter and the spirit of the EULA for OEM products. There is a reason why they are much cheaper than retail versions. I really don't care what you do, most people feel that they own the license of the software and can do what they wish. Win2k, XP and ME all have more restrictive OEM language than Win95, Win98 and Win31.

Here is language from my wifes dell with WinME...

Quote:

Single COMPUTER. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is licensed with the HARDWARE as a single integrated product. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT may only be used with the HARDWARE as set forth in this EULA.

I guess, just check your license.txt file and see what it says. If you don't see anything like this, then you are ok.

Bogy · 07-18-02, 01:42 AM

Quote:

1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights:

Systems Software. You may install and use one copy of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on a single computer, including a workstation, terminal or other digital electronic device ("COMPUTER").

I just did a search, and this is pretty much what three of my computers have to say. Unfortunately, the computer under discussion is in my son's room, and it is the only one turned off, and he is asleep. His is the only computer in the house that came with OEM software. I don't go out and buy computers that come with all that fancy shmancy stuff. This one just happened to be one that had been given to the church, (with all the license, manuals, etc. included) and when the church didn't need it anymore I volunteered to get it out of the way.

If I was to give it away or sell it (like anyone would buy it) Iwould wipe the disc or include all the appropriate material. All this is just one more reason why I have never bought the computers with all the prepackaged software. I want the right to decide what computer it goes on, and the right to move it if I want.

James_F · 07-18-02, 08:53 AM

Cool sounds like you'll be ok then...

lee635 · 07-25-02, 04:41 PM

Well, I'm not even sure of what constitutes a transfer to a new machine. If the hard drive dies on my machine and I restore my oem windoze from a backup onto a new hard drive, is that a new machine?

Months later I drop in a new cpu and change out video cards, new machine?

Later I get a bigger case and new motherboard but transfer the old hard drive, cpu, memory sticks and so forth. New computer?

Or I buy a Lindows machine, remove my hard drive from my old machine and stick it in the Lindows machine along with the memory, network card and a floppy drive. Throw out the video card from the lindows machine and replace with my existing card. Then scrap the other parts. New machine?

gcutler · 07-25-02, 06:44 PM

On XP, a certain # of changed components will require a rentry of the Authentication ID as the machine will assume tooo much has changed and wants authentication.

James_F · 07-25-02, 07:23 PM

Well thats why you just avoid OEM versions of software. Or avoid XP...