Worthless Piece of *$^%

steve0212 · 11-03-06, 06:00 PM

I have never in my life worked with a more buggy piece of electronics. I have had my HR20 for about 3 weeks now. When I first got it, I had the previous software version on it and I had most of the issues noted in this forum. However, it did at least do its most important task for me and that was record. Now, since the latest software update (E3 I believe), I am having all kinds of recording problems. First, I have the well documents Sunday Ticket issue which burns me to no end. Also, now, it is missing all kinds of programs. They show up in the history as Partial. What the hell does that mean?

Fortunately, I have an HR10 and it is reliable enough to record for me with the same season passes. Then (on my HR20), I have some recordings that it actually did record, so I just tried to watch them. I press play and get nothing but a black screen. If I press Pause, FF, RW, Skip Forward or back, nothing moves it. One interesting thing I see on the screen is the text under the bar says "0:-1" (zero - colon - negative one). I tried rebooting the box. Now the shows don't even show up in the list of recorded programs.

I understood that there may be issues, but considering this is a DVR as in digital video RECORDER), you would think it could record shows and let me watch them. No offense Earl, but I bought this receiver based, in large part, on your review, and I am greatly regretting that decision now. You need to update your review to reflect all the issues that we are currently using to alert any future buyers that they are really alpha testers (I would not even say this software warrants beta status).

If they do not get this working with the next release, I am calling them and telling them to ship me out an HR10 and I will ship the POS back to them.

They definitely should have ponied up the money to Tivo to continue to use their software.

Lastly, my 2 cents for anyone considering buying this receiver - DON'T DO IT!

Alvin Nuckleglazer · 11-03-06, 06:06 PM

mine works great. its unfortunate you are having problems with yours.

Earl Bonovich · 11-03-06, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve0212

Earl, but I bought this receiver based, in large part, on your review, and I am greatly regretting that decision now. You need to update your review to reflect all the issues that we are currently using to alert any future buyers that they are really alpha testers (I would not even say this software warrants beta status).

I am having a hard time finding the right words to express my self.

I understand your frusturation... and I am sorry that the review it self (which I attempted to be as objective as possible about the unit back in August), caused you to purchase the system; and ultimately you are having issues with it...

But there was a link to a discussion thread... which in turn resides in this forum, where there hundreds of threads.

Mine is not the only review like that... CNet's, and the recent one in the Philadelphia paper... are all similar.

I don't know why you are having the issues to the magnitude you are... but there is another software release on the horizon... so all I can ask is wait and see if/how it improves your system.

The HR20 is a good unit... flawed.. but good.
It is not Great, It is not perfect.... In a significant amount of cases.. it does exactly what it is suppose to.
But when it goes bad... it goes bad to the extreme.

The issue with "partial" should be resolved in the next release.
So all we can do is wait and see.

soprano_777 · 11-03-06, 06:37 PM

It,s Not earls fault I read many reviews and the all seem to praise this box. I just think that it thakes some time for the box to act up. Erl has been the only reason(and afew other great people out there) that I have had a real hard time returning this box, even now after I posted my farwell I hope the governor comes though with a PARDON.

junebug · 11-03-06, 06:44 PM

It's experiences like steve0212's that's keeping me waiting... I'll continue to enjoy my H20 + Tivo2 setup until the HR20 "POS" (to use steve0212's words) gets its act together. Too bad for DirecTV. Maybe if they diverted a little bit of their marketing money to engineering they'd have a half-decent product.

P.S. As an automotive software engineer, I don't have the luxury of getting by with selling POS. Imagine driving down the road and having your car reboot on you. Doesn't happen.

btmoore · 11-03-06, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl Bonovich

I
The HR20 is a good unit... flawed.. but good.
It is not Great, It is not perfect.... In a significant amount of cases.. it does exactly what it is suppose to.
But when it goes bad... it goes bad to the extreme.

The issue with "partial" should be resolved in the next release.
So all we can do is wait and see.

Earl, I am with you 99% of the time but I think you are way off this time. If you cant trust the HR20 to record which is it's primary function how can the DVR be "good"? It might be good with some future version of software, but not with the current or past versions. Does the HR20 show potential of being good, yep, but right now it is only potential. There are so many problems:

Unwatchable/Unplayable recordings
-Cant play/ black screen/ trick plays don't work typically a negative time code
Partial History and missing recording bug
-missing recording history shows partial
Full and/or partial interface lockup
-remote stops working or the nav buttons stop working requiring a reboot
771 bug
-771 message, tuner could be black or it may be working, only work around is to stop recording change channel and change back to the station you were trying to watch/record
- You have to turn Dolby off to turn on DD
Dolby on off reversed

There are probably a couple more I am forgetting

There are so many current problems there is no way this box is good at this point in time. Maybe later but not now.

g4jedi · 11-03-06, 06:55 PM

On our HR20, when you delete a recording, it still shows in the VOD list for a while. It's actually deleted like it's supposed to, but still shows up in the list for a while. FFW and pausing is still a bit flaky, but not as bad as the last software version. I hope to god that it doesn't start giving us the unwatchable recording problem i have been reading about lately!

St Louis Cardinals Fan · 11-03-06, 06:59 PM

All I can say it that the H20 that I have is working great. I have recorded HD, SD, and it never misses a beat.
I have only had the system for two weeks but it has worked flawlessly.

I just wish it had the OTA enabled

btmoore · 11-03-06, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g4jedi

I hope to god that it doesn't start giving us the unwatchable recording problem i have been reading about lately!

Unwatchable recordings suck. I have had them on MPEG2, MEG4 HD and the SD programming. My last unwatchable one was the Wed South Park on Comedy Central. There is just no rhyme or reason to why they happen but it sucks.

Earl Bonovich · 11-03-06, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btmoore

Earl, I am with you 99% of the time but I think you are way off this time. If you cant trust the HR20 to record which is it's primary function how can the DVR be "good"? It might be good with some future version of software, but not with the current or past versions. Does the HR20 show potential of being good, yep, but right now it is only potential. There are so many problems:

Unwatchable/Unplayable recordings
-Cant play/ black screen/ trick plays don't work typically a negative time code
Partial History and missing recording bug
-missing recording history shows partial
Full and/or partial interface lockup
-remote stops working or the nav buttons stop working requiring a reboot
771 bug
-771 message, tuner could be black or it may be working, only work around is to stop recording change channel and change back to the station you were trying to watch/record
- You have to turn Dolby off to turn on DD
Dolby on off reversed

There are probably a couple more I am forgetting

There are so many current problems there is no way this box is good at this point in time. Maybe later but not now.

Again... do users have issues? yes...
All those things you listed are real...

But do they happen to everyone? No... Just like there are people that have issues with Computers, and other don't... That is probably the #1 most frustrating thing about this... not everyone has the issues.

Those 4 issues you have listed, have DRASTICALLY reduced in the volume that they have been reported... Sure people may have simply stopped reporting them, but then again... On my systems, which is the only two I can definitively verify against... I have seen those issues you listed in a long while... most certainly not in the current release.

Does that mean they are fixed? Once and for all? no... because someone else has had the issue...

ktabel01 · 11-03-06, 07:21 PM

The 771 error was nonexistent before the current software update. It is constantly present on my receiver. So I have an HD receiver that can't receive HD, good times. VERY eagerly awaiting an update, but for the meantime this thing is worthless.

btmoore · 11-03-06, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl Bonovich

Again... do users have issues? yes...
All those things you listed are real...

But do they happen to everyone? No... Just like there are people that have issues with Computers, and other don't... That is probably the #1 most frustrating thing about this... not everyone has the issues.

Those 4 issues you have listed, have DRASTICALLY reduced in the volume that they have been reported... Sure people may have simply stopped reporting them, but then again... On my systems, which is the only two I can definitively verify against... I have seen those issues you listed in a long while... most certainly not in the current release.

Does that mean they are fixed? Once and for all? no... because someone else has had the issue...

I can confirm and I have posted pictures of some of them that they are in the current release of the software. In your own posts you have acknowledge that D* knows there are bugs, in particularly you have stated that the Partial bug should be addressed in the next release. That means everyone has the bug, they just may not have hit the condition that causes that bug to present. Some of us hit that bug all the time. For me it has been 5 days, but the unwatchable bug poped up 2 days ago.

The comparison to a general purpose computer is a red herring, this is not a general purpose computer, it is a closed system specific purpose machine with an embedded operating system. They control everything, in PCs you control most everything, and that is where most problems come from.

IMO you should put a caveat in your review, that many people are having problems and that D* has informed you that they are actively working on fixing this thing, as you stated in one of your other posts. That way people are not making bad decision based on reading your review. It would be the fair thing to do.

matto · 11-03-06, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btmoore

IMO you should put a caveat in your review, that many people are having problems and that D* has informed you that they are actively working on fixing this thing, as you stated in one of your other posts. That way people are not making bad decision based on reading your review. It would be the fair thing to do.

even cnet did that, and they're not so much journalists as press release reformatters

soprano_777 · 11-03-06, 07:36 PM

I Know that I have no right to speak because I haven't activatide my box but in fareness to Earl Down here in Fla. there are peoplewho have had all these problems, and people that I've talked to face to face that think the box is the best! Thats why when I see how fast it sells out that I hesitated in returnnging it. But to be fare to you also I can't live with abox that just don"t do what its supose to do. I just don<t know why one box has issues and the house right next door has NONE! Just don't know?

Earl Bonovich · 11-03-06, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btmoore

IMO you should put a caveat in your review, that many people are having problems and that D* has informed you that they are actively working on fixing this thing, as you stated in one of your other posts. That way people are not making bad decision based on reading your review. It would be the fair thing to do.

So be it... I have added a note to the first post in the thread.
That the unit has recieved multiple software release, and that readers should spend the time looking in the forum for more current information..

And most specifically they should review the current release thread.

Earl Bonovich · 11-03-06, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soprano_777

I Know that I have no right to speak because I haven't activatide my box but in fareness to Earl Down here in Fla. there are peoplewho have had all these problems, and people that I've talked to face to face that think the box is the best! Thats why when I see how fast it sells out that I hesitated in returnnging it. But to be fare to you also I can't live with abox that just don"t do what its supose to do. I just don<t know why one box has issues and the house right next door has NONE! Just don't know?

Exactly.... and there in lies the problem...

All you can do is take the information you have... and use it to help you make a decision.

paulman182 · 11-04-06, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl Bonovich

Exactly.... and there in lies the problem...
All you can do is take the information you have... and use it to help you make a decision.

Earl, I hope everyone realizes that you can only review the box you have, not all of them.

In fact, back when people got their reviews from magazines, most of them would not review defective units at all, with the idea that if the customer got a bad one, he would exchange it. Therefore, no point in reviewing buggy units.

You're doing a great job of walking a fine line, Earl, and we appreciate it.

mjs31 · 11-04-06, 07:57 AM

I am always amazed that people who go and buy the first batch of a new electronic device get so angry when it has bugs. Come on folks. The first bunch to buy any of these devices tend to be beta testers of sorts. If you cannot take this then dont buy anything until you know the bugs are worked out.
Anyone that expects something new to work perfectly is naive.

Yes...I am frustrated as well with some bugs, but I am also one of the people that likes the newest gadgets out there and realize my lack of patience in purchasing it could cause me headaches until the bugs get worked out.

Rugged · 11-04-06, 08:01 AM

I'll be honest...I bought this box back in Sept when it first came out and I knew there were bugs but I wanted an HD DVR and D* wasn't giving out HR10s. I've had most of the same problems that everyone has reported here and I think each new release improves the functionality drastically so I can't really complain because I knew what I was getting into.

Anyone who spends about 5 minutes scanning this message board will realize that this machine isn't a TIVO and isn't perfect but it has benefits/improvements too. The more time I spend using the machine-the better I like it. I'm not ready to recommend this box to my family because they don't have the patience that I have but eventually things will get straigtened out.

Overall, I'm happy and it certainly isn't anyone elses fault if you aren't happy.

Starrbuck · 11-04-06, 08:27 AM

Remember, too, people, it's only television. If you miss this week's Survivor, the world still spins around and the sun will still come up tomorrow. Chill out.

Vinny · 11-04-06, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starrbuck

Remember, too, people, it's only television. If you miss this week's Survivor, the world still spins around and the sun will still come up tomorrow. Chill out.

I firmly believe that not every problem that is blamed on the HR20 is in fact an HR20 issue. There are so many other variables between receving the signal from the satelite and seeing a picture on your TV. From connectors, cables, switches, filters, HDMI software in 100's of different brands of TV, etc, etc. Sometimes the least likely place to look is where the problem lies. But it's always easier to blame the newest piece of the puzzle.

KungFool · 11-04-06, 08:45 AM

I just have to say:

Had the unit for 2 months...works great. Had a few problems along the way...probably 3 or 4 bad recordings (out of hundreds), HD works great, MPEG4 or MPEG2, everything looks/plays good. No missed recordings.

There is room for improvement, but I really don't get these threads calling it a worthless POS....works great for me.

jaywdetroit · 11-04-06, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny

I firmly believe that not every problem that is blamed on the HR20 is in fact an HR20 issue. There are so many other variables between receving the signal from the satelite and seeing a picture on your TV. From connectors, cables, switches, filters, HDMI software in 100's of different brands of TV, etc, etc. Sometimes the least likely place to look is where the problem lies. But it's always easier to blame the newest piece of the puzzle.

and let's all be honest here. I have often times been guilty of causing the dreaded:

I D 10 T error.

My guess is that I am not alone.

(Like the time I was getting a blank screen while my unit's record light was on and I was about ready to throw a fit until I realized it was OFF.)

burnside · 11-04-06, 08:57 AM

I so far am happy with my HR20 (got it 2 weeks ago). I've had one black screened recording and sometimes the trick play isn't all there, but other than that it has been flawless. Compared to my Tivo, I like the HR20 better because the menus do not take you away from watching tv and there seems to be less "clicks" when executing a function (ex. recording a show takes one click). That being said, if my HR20 was consistently not recording or misbehaving in any other way, I'd be very upset.

Some posters have said, hey, it's just a show that didn't record, take it easy. I'm way on the side of those saying that it's a PVR, it's supposed to record! Exactly. You don't buy a car so that after driving it home, you can't drive back out of your garage. This is a recorder and should record every time, no questions asked. I feel for those having the consistent recording problems because they really should not be going through this. There are absolutely no excuses. Having to wait for the next software release is not an excuse. You are paying $50-$100 a month just for the tv programming alone. If you cannot watch a show you recorded because of the HR20, then D* needs to definitely compensate that customer or exchange their HR20.

Finally, this has nothing to do with Earl. He is helping everyone out and his review of the HR20 highlighted the great features of the product. The other threads in this forum have given us after thoughts on the product and what we should watch out for. In the end, I think it's obvious now - get the HR20, but you have been warned. Wait for the HR20 and you may have less frustration. As for me, I got the HR20 at a time when I thought the problems were getting ironed out for the most part. I expected a few things to go wrong, but I have a back up system. I knew what I was getting into, so I personally am not upset, but instead happy with my decision. I will reiterate though, D* should have never put out this product. If Tivo gave them a unit like this back in the day, they would be suing Tivo by now. The case that it is D* with their own unit, everything seems rushed and excused with a "don't worry, it will be fixed soon".

JLucPicard · 11-04-06, 09:26 AM

Kind of reminds me of that Verizon commercial (though talking with a DVR crowd, maybe nobody will know what I'm talking about

) where all the cardboard people topple like dominoes and the guy says "yes, that is a problem and we are working on it".

I am sticking with my HR20 as I have not had as many problems as some of the posters, but how much longer will we be waiting until they get the basic functionality working properly?