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Dead Tuner?!


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#1 OFFLINE   gb33

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 10:16 PM

When I first got my DTivo box a couple years ago, I was excited and ran the cable in a very lazy manner, outside across the roof, down along house and then drilled into behind TV. Finaly now with the diplexing out of the picture and just being sick of looking at the tacky cable up there, I decided to move it correctly. Its just not the easiest thing to do in my living room due to vaulted ceilings.
At any rate I finally did it and have 2 seperate sat lines and one for OTA. When I began this whole deal both sat tuners worked, except for the new HD's on Tuner 2 where I had a diplexer on it sharing the line with OTA. Now however, Tuner 2 is dead! It is not the cable, not the dish/multiswitch, or BBC. If I swap cables it still works fine in Tuner 1, and nothing on Tuner 2. What could have happened to cause this? I have tried resetting, and re doing the setup numerous times with no luck. Both OTA tuners and St tuner 1 are fine. Am I S.O.L here? Could trying the BBC before the diplexer "trick" had anything to do with this? Did I do something wrong hen I moved it? Coincidence?

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#2 OFFLINE   say-what

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 10:23 PM

Sounds like you've done just about everything to check the tuner, so it's probably time to call and get a replacement - they'll ship one for 19.99 if you don't have the protection plan. Just explain everything you did to test the tuner.

Oh, I vote coincidence.

#3 OFFLINE   gb33

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 07:19 PM

Do they automatically send the HR21 out now? I wouldn't mind a black box but I need the OTA due to no CBS-HD on DTV. Man I hate to loose all my recordings. Could I swap hard drives? This realy stinks.

#4 OFFLINE   say-what

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 08:07 PM

What they send out depends on what's in stock and what the shipping department grabs. They may say they'll note your account, but they can't specify HR20 vs HR21.

Opening the unit voids your warranty and violates the terms of your lease - there's a thread on here about how to copy the drive, so I guess you could swap drives, but it's not something I recommend because of the warranty/lease issues.

#5 OFFLINE   gb33

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 06:42 AM

Thanks for the info. Is this dead tuner stuff a common occurance?

#6 OFFLINE   say-what

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 07:21 AM

Thanks for the info. Is this dead tuner stuff a common occurance?

It happens, but I wouldn't call it common.

#7 OFFLINE   rodhead

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 12:25 PM

Regarding moving a hard drive between receivers...

OTA recordings are not tied to a specific receiver, and if you swap drives they'll still play on the new receiver.

The Satellite recordings are tied to a specific receiver, so even though they'll show up on the new receiver, they won't play.

#8 OFFLINE   gb33

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 08:17 PM

Any chance at all that an all clearing 100% reset would do me any god? I would still ose my stuff but would not have to deal with customer service and chance of getting a box w/o OTA. There is a version of the HR20 that was black isn't there?

#9 OFFLINE   litzdog911

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 08:32 PM

Any chance at all that an all clearing 100% reset would do me any god? I would still ose my stuff but would not have to deal with customer service and chance of getting a box w/o OTA. There is a version of the HR20 that was black isn't there?


At this point you might as well try a "reset everything" to see if that helps.

Yes, the HR20-100 was available in black, but very few were built.
HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
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#10 OFFLINE   gb33

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 06:59 AM

I am also hesitant because I see all of these negative posts of people complaining about their HR20, when overall I have had pretty good luck. Same box since day one last August.

#11 OFFLINE   Jagg

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 08:55 PM

Thanks for the info. Is this dead tuner stuff a common occurance?


For me it is. I'm going on my third HR20 with a bad tuner. Same one on all units, Tuner 2. I think Mastec may have done a bad install with the wiring, but so far no one except an independent install auditer will examine my wiring. So now on to third unit and all my lost programming.

#12 OFFLINE   michaelyork29

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 10:05 PM

Hah...I thought you were Tom for a second... :)

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#13 OFFLINE   gb33

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 09:13 AM

Also wanted to add. I have had dropouts on the HD chanels for a long time. Even still the one tuner that is "working" has constant drops where the signal goes in and out. Looking at the signal levels the odd transponders have good levels (upper 80's low 90's) and the even has low (50-60's). And in watching an even number trans on the signal meter it goes from 50/60's down to teens or even all the way out for a second. Which of course translates into constant break ups and pixelization. VERY annoying.
THis problem is NOT on the 101 sat as it has mid 90's on all transponders. Is this all related to the box? Or does some of what I describe indicate dish troubles? Alignment is very good. I unfortunately do not have a 2nd HD box in the house to test the HD channels on 2nd unit.

#14 OFFLINE   Mr. Big

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 05:36 PM

Thanks for the info. Is this dead tuner stuff a common occurance?

I had what appeared to the technicians that came out (4 trips) that I had a dead #2 tuner because I kept getting the 771 error with the new HD channels. Turns out that the 2nd line from the dish was hooked to a diplexer for the OTA antenna was what was causing the problem. So after three HR20's the solution was to run that 3rd line and eliminate the diplexer. Everything is working great now except for the occasional glitches in the audio and video, which was also a problem with my HR10. I'm wondering when they're going to ask me to return the extra HR20(which probably works perfectly fine) they left behind. Come to think about it, they also left me with the HR10 which they were supposed to take back.

#15 OFFLINE   K4SMX

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 08:26 PM

Also wanted to add. I have had dropouts on the HD chanels for a long time. Even still the one tuner that is "working" has constant drops where the signal goes in and out. Looking at the signal levels the odd transponders have good levels (upper 80's low 90's) and the even has low (50-60's). And in watching an even number trans on the signal meter it goes from 50/60's down to teens or even all the way out for a second. Which of course translates into constant break ups and pixelization. VERY annoying.
THis problem is NOT on the 101 sat as it has mid 90's on all transponders. Is this all related to the box? Or does some of what I describe indicate dish troubles? Alignment is very good. I unfortunately do not have a 2nd HD box in the house to test the HD channels on 2nd unit.

You should not be getting such different signal strengths on the odds and the evens on the "good" tuner. I think you have some type of installation problem.

I've seen the odds and evens be different on an out-of-alignment dish, but never to the extent of basically 90's vs. 60's. And then the other tuner doesn't report any signals at all. You say at post #1, "it's not the .....dish/multi-switch.....," but I'm curious as to how you know that, and are you referring to the multi-switch in the LNB or a separate WB68?

If you have a WB68 that you are using in conjunction with some SD receivers, I would temporarily wire around the multi-switch with a couple of double female "barrel" adapters, "restart receiver", and see if you still have the problem. If you don't have a WB68, but just the single HR20, I would swap the cables at the LNB to the other two ports and "restart receiver" just to make sure you're getting the same results: Tuner 1 - 90's odds/60's evens and Tuner 2 - zero's. You should remove, examine, and gently re-tighten all your connectors with a 7/16" wrench. Odd even problems are frequently traceable to loose/shorted connectors.

It would be rather odd to have both tuners in your HR20 be bad simultaneously. I'd order a new set of BBC's by telephone anyhow. There's a lot of bad gray (Rev. 2) ones around, even though you don't think they're bad. You'll get them FedEx in two days.

Is that an AT9 ("sidecar") or an AU9-S (Slimline), and do you know what brand label is on the LNB? It's very possible you could have installation and HR20 problems. I know that makes your day...
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#16 OFFLINE   gb33

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 08:51 PM

You should not be getting such different signal strengths on the odds and the evens on the "good" tuner. I think you have some type of installation problem.

I've seen the odds and evens be different on an out-of-alignment dish, but never to the extent of basically 90's vs. 60's. And then the other tuner doesn't report any signals at all. You say at post #1, "it's not the .....dish/multi-switch.....," but I'm curious as to how you know that, and are you referring to the multi-switch in the LNB or a separate WB68?

If you have a WB68 that you are using in conjunction with some SD receivers, I would temporarily wire around the multi-switch with a couple of double female "barrel" adapters, "restart receiver", and see if you still have the problem. If you don't have a WB68, but just the single HR20, I would swap the cables at the LNB to the other two ports and "restart receiver" just to make sure you're getting the same results: Tuner 1 - 90's odds/60's evens and Tuner 2 - zero's. You should remove, examine, and gently re-tighten all your connectors with a 7/16" wrench. Odd even problems are frequently traceable to loose/shorted connectors.

It would be rather odd to have both tuners in your HR20 be bad simultaneously. I'd order a new set of BBC's by telephone anyhow. There's a lot of bad gray (Rev. 2) ones around, even though you don't think they're bad. You'll get them FedEx in two days.

Is that an AT9 ("sidecar") or an AU9-S (Slimline), and do you know what brand label is on the LNB? It's very possible you could have installation and HR20 problems. I know that makes your day...


Wow thanks. I do not have an external extra multiswitch. I was just referring to the one built into the dish. I do not have a slimline dish I have the "sidecar" unit with the square-ish looking dish. Even before I re-did my cables I had the even/odd problem with the HD channels. I too thought of swapping around the cables with the other unit (SD DTivo) in the house at the dish, to try and eliminate yet another variable. So maybe after the holiday I can do that on Sunday. Another bit of info I do have grey colored BBC's, again I got all my equipment when HR20's first arrived early last August. Also a note that my grounding block outside was never grounded. I wuld lov for this to be a cable or dish issue so I don't lose content and have to exchange my box. But when I take either cable and put it in tuner 1 I get same results. If I put either one in tuner 2 I get nothing. I believe it not to be the dish due to good signals on 101 sat and all numbers for alignment matching on dish.

#17 OFFLINE   K4SMX

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 09:44 PM

......... When I began this whole deal both sat tuners worked, except for the new HD's on Tuner 2 where I had a diplexer on it sharing the line with OTA. Now however, Tuner 2 is dead!......

Do you recall exactly when in this process of removing the diplexers that Tuner 2 failed? Was it before, coincident, or after?

When you say, "swap cables," are you swapping the BBC's as well?

Are you able to or at all interested in re-aligning the dish yourself? You need to get your 103(B) evens out of the 60's into at least the 80's. I'm not real hopeful about this prospect with your AT-9, because usually you find out-of-alignment AT-9's, especially those with Calamp LNB's, showing about a 10 point difference between all the odds and evens, and you can get them up into the 90's on all tp's, except the Calamps, which usually only peak out in the mid-80's max. But you've already got the odd's in the 90's, so you probably just need a new Slimline dish.

I really think you need to call D*, get through the telephone tree wall to Tech Support, and tell them you've got signal drop outs on the new HD channels, and your 103(B)'s are in the 50's to 60's. Don't mention the odds in the 90's; that'll only confuse them. (Also order some Rev. 3 BBC's.) When you tell them you have an AT-9, their solution will be to install a new Slimline. When that's being done, you can simultaneously get all your cables checked out. With a new dish, good cabling, and new BBC's, you should at least be getting mid 80's to mostly all 90's on Tuner 1's 103(B). Then you can revisit the Tuner 2 issue while the tech is there. It's not impossible Tuner 2 still works on OTA, but is no longer putting out any DC switching voltage/tones, and you'll have no choice but replacing it.

That'll bring up the issue of how you get an HR20 out of them, instead of an HR21, since you obviously use OTA. You'll have to jump off that bridge when you come to it, but it can be done apparently, if you are persistent in this regard.

I don't know if you have the Protection Plan, but since you appear to have multiple possible hardware issues, now would be a good time to add it, at least until you get this straightened out. IIRC, you have to either wait 30 days before your first call or pay an extra $15 to not wait, but somebody else can correctly advise you as to how that works. Meanwhile, add it today. The idea is to avoid the $70 service call on the dish replacement and the $20 s/h on a replacement HR20, plus perhaps put you in better standing on the HR20/21 issue.

So: BBC's, new dish, possible new HR20, minimal $$$.
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#18 OFFLINE   gb33

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 07:19 PM

Do you recall exactly when in this process of removing the diplexers that Tuner 2 failed? Was it before, coincident, or after?

When you say, "swap cables," are you swapping the BBC's as well?

Are you able to or at all interested in re-aligning the dish yourself? You need to get your 103(B) evens out of the 60's into at least the 80's. I'm not real hopeful about this prospect with your AT-9, because usually you find out-of-alignment AT-9's, especially those with Calamp LNB's, showing about a 10 point difference between all the odds and evens, and you can get them up into the 90's on all tp's, except the Calamps, which usually only peak out in the mid-80's max. But you've already got the odd's in the 90's, so you probably just need a new Slimline dish.


Thanks again, you have been very helpful with ideas. Tuner 2 went totally out after the diplexer and antenna were removed from the sat line. I just have trouble believing it was a total coincidence.
Yes I have swaped the BBC's as well, along with the cables to each tuner in all possible combinations all to no avail.
Why is it that the slimline is a better or easier dish to align? Also what is Calamp? I have installed and adjusted many of my dishes in the past, but I did not nstall this one. Although, and I don't know if this helps you at all. Every few months or so my signals on the HD locals (99) would tend to drop. And the solution I have found every time has been to just turn the small dial with a Phillilips scrw in the middle of the black dial with numbers 0-9 on it. I turn it counter clockwise a few clicks and all is well signls jump back up. Could this over time have done some harm? But my question is then A) why does tuner 1 still wrk fine, and B) why only the odd transponders?
I just remembered I do have a buddy in town that has an HR20 perhaps I could either get him to drag his over here, or let me take mine over there to try and eliminate the box as the culprit.

#19 OFFLINE   K4SMX

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 10:18 PM

Thanks again, you have been very helpful with ideas. Tuner 2 went totally out after the diplexer and antenna were removed from the sat line. I just have trouble believing it was a total coincidence.

You may have accidentally shorted out the DC switching voltage on that tuner long enough to fry something in tuner 2 somewhere in that di-plexer/di-plexer removal experience.

.....Why is it that the slimline is a better or easier dish to align? Also what is Calamp? I have installed and adjusted many of my dishes in the past, but I did not nstall this one. Although, and I don't know if this helps you at all. Every few months or so my signals on the HD locals (99) would tend to drop. And the solution I have found every time has been to just turn the small dial with a Phillilips scrw in the middle of the black dial with numbers 0-9 on it. I turn it counter clockwise a few clicks and all is well signls jump back up. Could this over time have done some harm? But my question is then A) why does tuner 1 still wrk fine, and B) why only the odd transponders?

I think all this is unrelated to your dead tuner. It is evidence that either the lock down nuts on the EL adjustment were never tightened or, more likely, that your mount is sagging from the 35 lb weight of the dish and needs to be more firmly secured.

The Slimlines are easier to align than some of the AT-9's, depending upon which mount came with the AT-9. It's not a big issue by any means.

Calamp is one of several brands of LNB used on the AT-9. They're definitely more prone to problems on 103(B) than other brands, based on numerous posts on this forum. They typically yield maximum 103(B) signals about 10 points less than other brands, but there are exceptions to that experience reported. They also show a marked odd/even disparity when out of alignment in EL, which is the most likely out-of-alignment direction, including in your case. In general, there's nothing at all the matter with the AT-9 signal strength-wise, but I prefer the Slimline for the more rugged and weatherproof one-piece mechanical construction of the LNB assembly.

...... I just remembered I do have a buddy in town that has an HR20 perhaps I could either get him to drag his over here, or let me take mine over there to try and eliminate the box as the culprit.

Excellent idea!
Stew in Florida

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#20 OFFLINE   gb33

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 09:48 PM

Okay I took box over to friends house to watch my Packers lose Thursday night. Tuner 2 is dead, bottom line unfortunately. However the signal drops on tuner one did not occur. So while I will need a new box due to dead tuner, I also do have a problem either in wiring or in dish.




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