Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Stop Trying to Turn My DVR into a Tivo


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
135 replies to this topic

#121 OFFLINE   boltjames

boltjames

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 707 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Posted 06 December 2007 - 07:06 PM

boltjames: you type in absolutes. To the contrary, I had the HR20 for about a month and had to reinstall my HR10. Now my HR20 is a nice compliment to my HR10 but not a replacement.


I realize that a nice UI is important to some, but the primary role of a DVR is not to amaze and astonish power users with customizable menus and functions. The primary role of a DVR is to display a gorgeous MPEG4 HD picture and record programs reliably for millions of subscribers.

If your HR20 did not succeed in these two areas, you need to get a replacement HR20 from D* as yours is defective.

If you feel that the Tivo UI is so much to your liking that you are going to forgo dozens of incremental HD channels, MPEG4 picture quality, native mode picture quality, and constant updates from the manufacturer then your loyalty to Tivo clouds your judgement to a point where your opinion is skewed.

There are many people who prefer a horse to a car for daily transportation. That choice is completely within their right, of course, but it doesn't mean that their decision is correct.

BJ
Sony 40XBR9 LCD 1080p | Sony 46XBR2 LCD 1080p | Sony 40V2500 LCD 1080p| HR20's | HR21's | D* Bring Back FTSTB! No 2 Hour Timeouts!

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#122 OFFLINE   boltjames

boltjames

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 707 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Posted 06 December 2007 - 07:11 PM

It's not the only feature that is missing - just my (and many people's) favorite!


I understand completely and am not trying to judge. Just pointing out that, like everything in life, a DVR is a series of wins and losses. And that, in my opinion, the loss of something like the dual 30 minute buffers is offset by leaps and bounds by things that were added such as a single 90 minute buffer, MPEG4 decoding, native mode, one-touch-recording, much faster menu's, the 'back' button, the softkeys, the deep 'previous channels' menu, and on and on.

You list all the features in the HR20 and line it up against a list of all the features of the HR10 and it's not even close. It's like 3:1 in favor of the HR20. You can be upset at the loss of one key feature, but you cannot condemn the product as a whole in light of all the other great features that were added.

BJ
Sony 40XBR9 LCD 1080p | Sony 46XBR2 LCD 1080p | Sony 40V2500 LCD 1080p| HR20's | HR21's | D* Bring Back FTSTB! No 2 Hour Timeouts!

#123 OFFLINE   rapjrhb

rapjrhb

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 128 posts
Joined: Sep 26, 2007

Posted 06 December 2007 - 07:20 PM

I understand completely and am not trying to judge. Just pointing out that, like everything in life, a DVR is a series of wins and losses. And that, in my opinion, the loss of something like the dual 30 minute buffers is offset by leaps and bounds by things that were added such as a single 90 minute buffer, MPEG4 decoding, native mode, one-touch-recording, much faster menu's, the 'back' button, the softkeys, the deep 'previous channels' menu, and on and on.

You list all the features in the HR20 and line it up against a list of all the features of the HR10 and it's not even close. It's like 3:1 in favor of the HR20. You can be upset at the loss of one key feature, but you cannot condemn the product as a whole in light of all the other great features that were added.

BJ


I haven't condemned anything. In fact, I choose to use an HR20 because of the HD content - despite not having some features that I want. My post was simply a reaction to you diminishing the importance of DLBs. You may not care about it but many people in this forum do.

#124 OFFLINE   ub1934

ub1934

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 518 posts
  • LocationUpState NY
Joined: Dec 30, 2005

Posted 06 December 2007 - 07:32 PM

As the owner of 2 ReplayTV units, an HR10-250 and an HR20-700, I can tell you that they all have their strengths and weaknesses. The TiVo interface is easy to use. But TiVo also lacked a lot of functionality that Replay had almost on day 1. For instance, MRV and Internet scheduling were there almost from the get go. It took TiVo years to add those features after Replay had them.

Here are some shortcomings of TiVo where Replay outperformed. And the only reason I list them here is in the hopes that D* doesn't take the same (IMHO) flawed approach that Tivo did in some parts of its interface:

Things I Liked Better about ReplayTV:

1) Menus should be circular (i.e.- if you're at the top of a menu list and hit the up button, it should put you at the bottom of the menu list... not give you the BONG sound!. Replay's menus are circular.

2) If you reach the end of a show, you're at the end. That's it. No option other than to go back to your 'Now Playing' list. Replay allowed you to use the navigation buttons (jump back, rewind, etc.) and gave you the option to save or delete the show. The HR20 improves this function by at least allowing you to choose to delete the show if you want to. But it should also allow you to jump back and rewind if you want to (perhaps it does... I can't remember and I'm not at home to check).

3) Same thing applies when you stop a recording. Tivo only let's you go back to the 'Now Playing' list. Replay allowed you to choose to save the recorded segment or delete it. The HR20 does this as well.

4) ReplayTV allows you to jump anywhere you want to in a program. If it's a 2 hour show and you want to jump ahead 90 minutes, you simply press 9 - 0 - SKIP (the same button that you use for the 30-second skip normally). Tivo does not have this feature. The HR20 also does not have this feature (that I'm aware of).

5) The channel listings in Tivo and in the HR20 are problematic for sports watching. Tivo and HR20 list sports shows with the title "Bears @ Redskins". ReplayTV listed them as "NFL Football" with a description "Chicago Bears at Washington Redskins". If I'm an NFL fan and just want to record all NFL games (regardless of the teams that are playing), I have to know when the games are and what channels they are on (which is increasingly difficult at the end of the season with the Thursday night and Saturday games). You can't use the keyword search and search for Football because you get all of the other junk out there (like "Inside the NFL" 15 times, any sports news program, etc.). I have to say, this is the #1 most annoying thing about the D* DVRs (HR10 or HR20) for me.

If the channel listings were more like ReplayTVs, you could simply set a season pass for "NFL Football" for NBC, CBS, FOX, ESPN and be done with it. There is no way to set a Season Pass for NFL Football (or any other major sport for that matter) using the HR10 or HR20.

6) MRV. I know I mentioned it above. But we have not had MRV on non-hacked D* DVRs yet. ReplayTV was doing this in 2000. I think I read something about this feature coming for the HR20. But when?

7) Better grouping of shows. Replay allows you to create your own folders and move shows into that folder if you want. So for instance, if you've recorded a lot of movies and don't want them cluttering up your "Now Playing" list, you can move them into your own custom "Movies" folder. The HR10/HR20 only have system-controlled folders (which is admittedly better than what we had before 6.3... but still).

There are more, but I'll stop here.

Things I Like About the HR10 and HR20 over ReplayTV:

1) HD. That pretty much sealed the deal for me in phasing out my Replays.

2) DVR integration directly into the digital receiver. The HR10/HR20 are integrated. The ReplayTV needs to use IR blasters or a serial port to control a separate set top box. We all know IR blasters are somewhat unreliable and the serial control only works with older D* receivers.


Don't get me wrong, I like my HR10 (despite its sluggishness) and my HR20 (despite its bugs in its infancy). But my hope is that the HR20 in the end will be a mixture of the features available from both Tivo and ReplayTV. They both are/were excellent DVRs. It's a shame that SonicBlue got sued by the networks over the commercial skip and internet video sharing features of their units. I think that more than anything is what ruined their DVR product. Well.... that and an almost non-existent marketing campaign.

Brian

PS- Earl... your Bears are going down Thursday night! ;-)


I will second every thing you posted about Replay , used it with my BUD and then Directv and would have still been useing it if it had Dolby SS . When Tivo came out for Directv i made the move because of the dual tuners (not yet active ) and the DLB +DD 5.1 Wish the HR**-*** would add some of the good from both of them .:grin:

#125 OFFLINE   MercurialIN

MercurialIN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,448 posts
Joined: Jul 17, 2006

Posted 06 December 2007 - 07:56 PM

As someone who loved their two stand alone TiVo's I do miss a few of their features, I'm one who actually loved the TiVo suggestions feature and don't understand why those who didn't like it didn't simply turn it off. I found it very useful to point out movies I might have otherwise missed. I enjoyed finding the recordings it would pick for me as it truly learned my viewing preferences very quickly, yes I did use the thumbs/up/down feature.

I also miss DLB and being able to set up auto records that actually work. And TiVo rarely missed any recordings or needed a reset. That said, as someone who thought nothing could compete with TiVo I have to say, I was wrong. I have really come to like the HR 20-700 and it has features my TiVo never dreamed of. Does the HR 20 have some flaws, sure, but so did TiVo. Nothing's perfect. But count me among those who are glad Directv came up with the HR 20. It's obvious that Directv cares about its customers too as it keeps working to improve the HR 20.

Melody

In Loving Memory Of Manda 8/31/2004-12/29/2008

HR24-100/S-Video/Mitsu SDTV
HR24-100*
HR24-500*
*both hooked HDMI to same Sony Bravia XBR 9


#126 OFFLINE   Milominderbinder2

Milominderbinder2

    Cutting Edge: ECHELON '08

  • Registered
  • 4,107 posts
Joined: Oct 08, 2006

Posted 06 December 2007 - 08:42 PM

They should scrap skip to tick and implement the above system.

-mk

I like skip to tick. I wish I did not have to hold the button down forever to make it work.

Once I am closer to 100 years old, I will probably like the geriatric press and hold.

- Craig

#127 OFFLINE   flipptyfloppity

flipptyfloppity

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,073 posts
Joined: Aug 19, 2007

Posted 06 December 2007 - 11:06 PM

Er...I don't think there ever was an analog DIGITAL recorder on the market. The original TiVo's were DIGITAL, not analog.

Another downside of Ultimate TV was the very well documented bugs the early models had. The bad PR ultimately killed Ultimate TV and it was withdrawn from the market as it was never commercially successful.


The original TiVos were analog because they only received analog TV. They digitized it and compressed it on record and decompressed it on playback. They received no digital video or audio whatsoever. The DirecTiVo was the first TiVo to receive digital signals.

That's why they are called analog TiVos.
room 1:
HR34-700 through Sony STR-DA5300ES amp to LG 55" LE8500 LCD flat panel via HDMI. Discrete OTA.

room 2:
On break. I thought I'd get something in time for baseball, but...

AU9 SWM dish. Channel Master 4228 for UHF + big yagi for VHF w/CM7777 combiner/amplifier.

Connected via wired GigE to Apple Time Capsule base station.

#128 OFFLINE   bidger

bidger

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,944 posts
Joined: Nov 19, 2005

Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:34 AM

They're called DVRs for Digital Video Recorders, flipptyfloppity. I've never heard/seen anyone refer to them as AVRs for Analog Video Recorders.

Ceton 6 tuner eth, Cisco Tuning Adapter 1520, TWC Digital Explorer Pak and Standard Internet, TiVo HD (upgraded to 500 GB) for OTA,TC-P50U50, SONY NSZ-GT1 BD player and Google TV box, Yamaha RX-V373 A/V receiver, Squeezebox Duet music streaming device, Xbox 360 

 

 


#129 OFFLINE   DanM

DanM

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 18 posts
Joined: Jan 13, 2003

Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:45 AM

His point is still correct, the original Tivos did not record a digital signal, even when recording Digital Cable channels. Everything had to go through an A/D converter (and back, to view.)

#130 OFFLINE   ShiningBengal

ShiningBengal

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 447 posts
Joined: Jan 24, 2003

Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:59 AM

The original TiVos were analog because they only received analog TV. They digitized it and compressed it on record and decompressed it on playback. They received no digital video or audio whatsoever. The DirecTiVo was the first TiVo to receive digital signals.

That's why they are called analog TiVos.


That may be why you call them analog TiVo's, but I have never heard anyone else refer to them that way.

You stated that they "received" analog TV. They did nothing of the kind. They received no digital signals, just as they received no analog signals. They were not receivers, digital or analog. They were, as the name implies, Digital Video Recorders because they recorded digital information.

Digital broadcasts must be converted to analog to see them. Would you call such broadcasts "analog?"

If you choose to call them analog receivers because they digitized analog audio and video so that they could be digitally recorded, you are being somewhat creative in your use of the term "analog." If a VCR converted digital signals to analog before recording, would you call them Digital Video Recorders?

Again, they weren't receivers. They were recorders. They had no tuners.

#131 OFFLINE   Sirshagg

Sirshagg

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,922 posts
Joined: Dec 29, 2006

Posted 07 December 2007 - 07:01 AM

They're called DVRs for Digital Video Recorders, flipptyfloppity. I've never heard/seen anyone refer to them as AVRs for Analog Video Recorders.


Not sure if AVR would be a correct term for anything... but who heard of PATA drives before SATA drives came out.
Who is this "Vod Kanockers" that you speak of?

#132 OFFLINE   DanM

DanM

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 18 posts
Joined: Jan 13, 2003

Posted 07 December 2007 - 07:05 AM

What a silly semantics argument.

Yes, digital broadcasts converted to analog are called analog broadcasts.

Analog Tivos are receivers, they have analog tuners in them specifically for that purpose. They receive the analog signal, and convert them to MPEG format for storage on the hard drive, in digital form. THAT's where the D in DVR comes in.

Incidentally, this is why the earlier Tivos could only record one show- they only had one tuner in them (and it was analog.)

#133 OFFLINE   ShiningBengal

ShiningBengal

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 447 posts
Joined: Jan 24, 2003

Posted 07 December 2007 - 07:16 AM

What a silly semantics argument.

Yes, digital broadcasts converted to analog are called analog broadcasts.

Analog Tivos are receivers, they have analog tuners in them specifically for that purpose. They receive the analog signal, and convert them to MPEG format for storage on the hard drive, in digital form. THAT's where the D in DVR comes in.


Digital broadcasts are really analog????? "Analog" TiVo's have tuners in them? That is false. It is not merely semantics.

There were no tuners of any kind in the original TiVo's. They did not receive analog broadcasts. They depended on external tuners, be they satellite (which of course were receiving digital signals) or cable, or off the air tuners to receive broadcasts.

Your argument is ridiculous.:rolleyes:

#134 OFFLINE   LlamaLarry

LlamaLarry

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 187 posts
  • LocationNorthern VA
Joined: Apr 21, 2007

Posted 07 December 2007 - 08:27 AM

Not sure if AVR would be a correct term for anything... but who heard of PATA drives before SATA drives came out.

People that had MFM hard disk drives. ;)
--Larry
2 HR20-100 * 1 HR21-700 * 1 HR20-700 * 1 HR23-700 * 2 H23-xxx
AU9-SL3/WB616 MS/OTA (CM4228+CM7777)

#135 OFFLINE   DanM

DanM

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 18 posts
Joined: Jan 13, 2003

Posted 07 December 2007 - 11:05 AM

Digital broadcasts are really analog????? "Analog" TiVo's have tuners in them? That is false. It is not merely semantics.

There were no tuners of any kind in the original TiVo's. They did not receive analog broadcasts. They depended on external tuners, be they satellite (which of course were receiving digital signals) or cable, or off the air tuners to receive broadcasts.

Your argument is ridiculous.:rolleyes:


From the wiki entry (emphasis mine):

All standalone TiVo systems have coax/RF-in and an internal cable-ready tuner, as well as analog video input—composite/RCA and S-Video—for use with an external cable box or satellite receiver. The TiVo unit can use a serial cable or IR blasters to control the external receiver. They have coax/RF, composite/RCA, and S-Video output, and the DVD systems also have component out.


And from the info on the System 2 Tivo's (emphasis mine):

The Series2 standalones can only tune analog signals, so to comply with FCC rules on analog TV phaseout, models that record from over-the-air channels are no longer sold. The dual tuner (DT) models and the TCD542 (a revision of the TCD540) will only record from cable and satellite sources.


It doesn't seem like you understand what a Tivo is and what it does.

#136 OFFLINE   qprhooligan

qprhooligan

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 59 posts
Joined: Dec 05, 2007

Posted 07 December 2007 - 11:20 AM

But there are only two features that I truly miss from Tivo:
1. dual-live-buffers (which I honestly probably use even more than 'record')
2. xxx


You mean the HR20-21 don't have dual line buffers? I'll miss that feature.




spam firewall