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PLEASE help me find a solution to this issue...


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22 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   armyturtle

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 08:56 AM

Here's my problem. I live in an apartment and didn't bother to make sure my porch faces the direction of the satty for DTV. My porch is the only place I can put a dish... they will not let us install it on the side of the building or on top... nor run any wires over the building or around. I DID get authorization to put my dish on a tripod on the porch of their model apartment on the other side of the building which DOES face the satty... but I have no way to get a coax to that side of the building. There is no physical solution by wire.

Is there a product out there that will take signal off of a COAX Cable and transmit it to a receiver, then output back to a coax connection? I'm not talking those cheap composite 2.4 ghz wireless transmitters that you can get at rat shack... those modulate the signal into a composite form and is strictly for AFTER your receiver has decrypted the signal into left/right audio channels and video. I need something that will take the RAW UNENCRYPTED signal from the dish... down the coax, into a transmitter... to a receiver... back onto a coax, and then into my satellite in connection on my Direct TV receiver...

Someone HAS to make this product. I find it IMPOSSIBLE that no one has had the issue of wanting to send their coax signal from one place to another without wires.

Please help! Thank you in advance.
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#2 OFFLINE   Richard King

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 09:45 AM

I don't think you will find anything to do what you want because more than just the satellite signal travels down the coax cable. In addition to getting the 950-1450 Mhz signal from the dish to the receiver (over the air in some way) you would have to get control voltages from the receiver to the LNB.
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#3 OFFLINE   armyturtle

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 11:12 AM

Having a unit plug into the wall on that end and provide the control voltages is not a problem. I have been doing satcom stuff for well over 3 years now and know that a low voltage is actually applied to the line to be able to actually get the signal to flow in the direction needed.

As I said, this is NOT something that is a break through in engineering. This is entirley possible. I am shocked nobody makes a solution such as the one I am describing.
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#4 OFFLINE   Richard King

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 11:45 AM

There's more to it than just plugging a power supply into the wall and feeding it to the dish. There are control signals on the coax also in the form of switching voltages. This can be done without a direct connection to the box.
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#5 OFFLINE   armyturtle

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 05:18 PM

Originally posted by Rking401
There's more to it than just plugging a power supply into the wall and feeding it to the dish. There are control signals on the coax also in the form of switching voltages. This can be done without a direct connection to the box.


So what you're saying is there is NO WAY you can recreate the "switching voltages?" I find that hard to believe, and question this theory... mostly because I've never heard of such a thing and can't imagine why you would want the voltage supplied on the coax to change, but I also question your statement because you gave no depth to it. Explain to me what "switching voltages" are in your experience and what they are needed for. This will give me a little more insight as to whether or not your answer is credible.

BTW... I do believe you meant, "This CAN'T be done without..."

Not looking to pick apart your credentials or your grammar here... I actually want to understand what it is you are talking about. As far as I understood it, it's a simple constant low line voltage on the coax pushed to the LNBF (low noise bandpass filter) to modulate (if you will, probably the wrong term here) the RF signal onto the the coax itself and then onward to the receiver.

IMO, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to transmit this... even if you had to recreate/transmit "switching voltages" that would normally be decided and sent by the receiver.
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#6 OFFLINE   Ryan

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 07:06 AM

DBS signals are transmitted from the satellite in one of two polarities. This allows the frequencies to be closer together without creating interference. The dish needs to know which polarity to decode. This is accomplished with the 'switching voltages,' 18 v gets you one polarity and 13 v get you the other.

So you absolutely need to send different voltages to the dish.

#7 OFFLINE   Mike123abc

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 08:33 AM

I think you are essentially out of luck. The amount of $$ it would take to do the transmission of both sides of the LNB and transmit it wirelessly would make getting cable for 20 years feasible. Even if you solve the switching problem you have to transmit about 500MHZ of bandwidth reliably. I am not aware of any consumer item that will do that. Satellite television is cheap because they make millions of the boxes, what you are asking would require completely custom boxes to be made and designed. Unless you can convince someone to pay for the R&D because they will be able to sell millions, you cannot afford the solution. The only solution that exists today would be to have your receiver over in the other apartment, you use a wireless control, and transmit one channel at a time back to your apartment.

You need to figure out how to get a coax to the other apartment, get them to allow you to move, or go with cable.

#8 OFFLINE   Richard King

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 09:39 AM

BTW... I do believe you meant, "This CAN'T be done without..."

Bingo. Sorry about the typo, but you got the point of my comment, which still stands. Additionally, switching voltages aside, once you solved that problem you would have to transmit the 950-1450Mhz signal from your newly developed magic switching power supply back to the receiver, which there is no product available to do at the moment. Is there a way that you could rig something using the existing cable company wiring by doing some creative splicing (using barrel connectors) in the model apartment, your apartment and the cable box? I think that would be the only solution for you. Keep in mind you can't have any splitters in the satellite line, but you can use diplexers.
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#9 OFFLINE   armyturtle

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 09:40 AM

Originally posted by Mike123abc
I think you are essentially out of luck. The amount of $$ it would take to do the transmission of both sides of the LNB and transmit it wirelessly would make getting cable for 20 years feasible. Even if you solve the switching problem you have to transmit about 500MHZ of bandwidth reliably. I am not aware of any consumer item that will do that. Satellite television is cheap because they make millions of the boxes, what you are asking would require completely custom boxes to be made and designed. Unless you can convince someone to pay for the R&D because they will be able to sell millions, you cannot afford the solution. The only solution that exists today would be to have your receiver over in the other apartment, you use a wireless control, and transmit one channel at a time back to your apartment.

You need to figure out how to get a coax to the other apartment, get them to allow you to move, or go with cable.


You make very valid points here. Moving apartments (even though a lot of effort) IMO would be taking the easy way out. I was sort of liking the challenge of having to find/make something that could keep me right where I am. I was already aware of the fact that I could just use a RF remote and put the receiver over there, but that's a no go for me. It's a model apartment and if I had to do anything to the receiver because it wasn't working right or what have you, I'd be having to keep going in and out... don't think the building manager would like that. :lol:

Anyway... thank you all for the information. Very interesting as far as the two different polarities and switching voltages...
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#10 OFFLINE   Mike123abc

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 11:49 AM

Another way would be to get the dish on your balcony to work, but since you said porch I would assume that you are on the first floor of a multi story building. If you were on the top floor you might be able to get a contraption built to peek over the roof (i.e. a pole that bends around the roof eve that does not attach to the roof.

If you have a window that could see a satellite you could replace the window with lexan and point your dish through it (it would not work through glass but will work through plastic).

#11 OFFLINE   armyturtle

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 12:10 PM

If I could have done any of those things... I would have LONG ago. Come on now. ;)
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#12 OFFLINE   armyturtle

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 12:11 PM

I guess you make the assumption that most people don't have f'ing clue. :D
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#13 OFFLINE   Mike123abc

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 03:42 PM

I was also thinking maybe you could deal up with another neighbor that faces the right way, then slip a cable through the wall when management is not looking.

#14 OFFLINE   armyturtle

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 05:33 PM

Dude... TRUST ME, if you can think of it... I've considered it or haven't done it for a reason. We don't share common walls; there's a hallway between us and it has carpet that doesn't get any more flat to the ground. Managment would have a hissy and kick me out if they found something like that. They've already left a notice of my non-cooperation of their policies and it's consquences on my door for having a small welcome mat right outside my door.

What is shocking to me is the that you seem to continue to think I'm some sort of an idiot. Believe me, I'm a SHEISTY MOFO and if there was a simple way, I'd be doing it already.

Oh oh oh! I got it! Why don't I just maybe "slip a cable" up the wall and over the top of the 40+ foot tall building when "managment isn't looking!" :lol: ...actually I've tried this. There was conduit running partially up the wall and I made my way onto the roof and fed the cable down the inside of it. However not all of it was covered, and some lady on the top floor heard footsteps and called the cops thinking someone was trying to break into her place... (even though the roof overhangs the patios by more than 6 feet.) This little stunt earned me another letter hanging from my door.
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#15 OFFLINE   geneb11

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 06:43 PM

Why don't you string a wire through the heating duct. You could rig up a remote control car with a camera on top of it and attach the cable to the back of it and drive it through the duct until you get to the other side and attach it to the dish.

#16 OFFLINE   Mark Lamutt

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 07:00 PM

Armyturtle,

Run the cable from the dish around the building, but bury it a little so that no one notices it. Do it at night wearing all black, and they'll never even see you do it.
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#17 OFFLINE   geneb11

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 07:57 PM

Just watching "shallow Hal" Gives me another idea.

Why don't you have Tony Robbins hipnotize your landlord to see the beauty inside of cableruns. The beauty of satellite tv.:D

#18 OFFLINE   waydwolf

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 08:07 PM

    As pointed out, you'd have to broadcast a signal of at least 500Mhz bandwidth from 950Mhz to 1450Mhz. Even stacked you'd need to transmit 950Mhz to 2050Mhz and for multi-sat, you'd need to still send a signal to turn a 22Khz generator on and off at the dish.

    If you're wondering why this is a bad idea, then you need to check out the following site:

http://www.jneuhaus....ex/960_mhz.html

    Remember that the cable companies are regularly hit with fines by the FCC for leakage of signal and if consumers were broadcasting such wideband signals without licenses and strict controls on the methods and proceedures, services sharing the bands would be totally unuseable.

    It might be better to consult a lawyer specializing in cable/satellite/DBS residential access issues and see what recourse you may have if any. While they have a broad rule allowing dishes under thirty-six inches, it is slowly being nibbled to death by ducks, aka court decisions and precedents. Although, having already told you that you can use the model apartment to emplace the dish, they may have already opened the barn door, so check with a lawyer.

 
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#19 OFFLINE   armyturtle

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 08:26 PM

Originally posted by waydwolf
    As pointed out, you'd have to broadcast a signal of at least 500Mhz bandwidth from 950Mhz to 1450Mhz. Even stacked you'd need to transmit 950Mhz to 2050Mhz and for multi-sat, you'd need to still send a signal to turn a 22Khz generator on and off at the dish.

    If you're wondering why this is a bad idea, then you need to check out the following site:

http://www.jneuhaus....ex/960_mhz.html

    Remember that the cable companies are regularly hit with fines by the FCC for leakage of signal and if consumers were broadcasting such wideband signals without licenses and strict controls on the methods and proceedures, services sharing the bands would be totally unuseable.

    It might be better to consult a lawyer specializing in cable/satellite/DBS residential access issues and see what recourse you may have if any. While they have a broad rule allowing dishes under thirty-six inches, it is slowly being nibbled to death by ducks, aka court decisions and precedents. Although, having already told you that you can use the model apartment to emplace the dish, they may have already opened the barn door, so check with a lawyer.

 


EXCELLENT INSIGHTS! Thank you. You are 100% correct. As far as buring the cable around the building goes... it's a no go too... there's pavement right up to the edge of the porches and building all the way around. Like I said, if it was physically possible to simply sneak or run a cable from here to there, I would have done it already and never would have gone in search of an alternative solution.

I'm starting to think I need to read up on hypnosis and do the shallow hal thing... ;) Who knows... Maybe switching apartments won't be so bad eventually. Right now, that's just NOT an option.

Thanks for everything guys... I think we've beaten this horse to death enough now. Move along, there's nothing more to see here. :D
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#20 OFFLINE   Mike123abc

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 08:57 PM

I think you should send the little old lady that lives on the top floor a free trip to the beauty salon, then while she is out do your ninja roof maneuver again... You need a good diversion maybe throw a party for the entire building while you get your ninja buddies out to do the evil deed. Plausible deny-ability is what you need! Be sure you have a good alibi worked out in advance. It is you vs the management! :lol:




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