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All Directv HD is HD-Lite??


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97 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 07:13 PM

On a cable forum the HD-Lite topic came up & one cable lover stated:
"Currently, Dish still has a few HD-Lite channels. ALL HD on DirecTV is HD-Lite either through 1080x1440 elliptical encoding or MPEG4 compression."

Is this guy right or way off?
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#2 OFFLINE   drded

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 07:17 PM

Elliptical encoding? Nice use of a fancy term that has little to do with HD. If this guy thinks MPEG4 is HD-Lite he is obviously demonstrating his complete ignorance of the subject.

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#3 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 07:18 PM

Wonder what he will say when cable (which is going to do it) goes to MPEG4.
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#4 OFFLINE   bhelton71

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 07:23 PM

Elliptical encoding? Nice use of a fancy term that has little to do with HD. If this guy thinks MPEG4 is HD-Lite he is obviously demonstrating his complete ignorance of the subject.

Dave


I googled "Elliptical encoding" and came up with magnetic resonance imaging - so is that the correct usage ? Does it mean something else ?

Back on topic - if it is HD-Lite - HD-Lite looks fine to me. Somehow I doubt it is though.

#5 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 07:34 PM

Digital by it's nature is compressed.
MPEG-2 uses an older algorithm while MPEG-4 is a newer algorithm that is able to work with smaller file sizes.

Does DirecTV, Dishnetwork, AND cable have some over compressed channels? YES.
Do the newer MPEG-4 channels look good? To me...yes.
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#6 OFFLINE   Heem(JimmyG)

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 07:38 PM

Not sure about "HD Lite", I was under the impression that anything under full 1080P is "lite". I just changed over to D* about 4 days ago and I can pass on that most but not all of my HD channels thru D* are better than our old cable. Its just a crisper picture.

TV predictions posted an article a few months back that the head guy at "Dish" called the HD channels at D* "lite" to battle the amount of channels D* has vs dish

Lite or not the picture looks great

#7 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 07:42 PM

I was under the impression that anything under full 1080P is "lite".

Since there is zero 1080p broadcasting, how can you compare broadcast to a bluray/HD-DVD?
This isn't even apples to oranges.
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#8 OFFLINE   kstefanec

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 08:23 PM

Couple of weeks ago, I read that the Japanese are working on the NEW HD, 4x's the resolution of 1080, so about 4000 something. So when that comes out, is a 1080p Blue-ray, HD-Lite?

If the picture looks good, I ain't complaining.

#9 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 08:36 PM

Technically all transmitted HD is "HD lite". All of it is compressed including live over the air broadcasts. The question then becomes what amount of compression is acceptable before you are able to notice any of the effects of compression.

MPEG4 is able to compress more than MPEG2 while delivering the same or better quality of picture.

While some of DirecTV's MPEG2 HD channels and broadcasts were "bit starved" to the point of being noticeable or objectionable, so far, in it's relatively short lifespan, MPEG4 appears to be doing much better, and providing much higher picture quality.

If it is "HD lite", it's okay by me. I think my HD pictures are fantastic.

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#10 OFFLINE   bhelton71

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 08:58 PM

Technically all transmitted HD is "HD lite". All of it is compressed including live over the air broadcasts. The question then becomes what amount of compression is acceptable before you are able to notice any of the effects of compression.

MPEG4 is able to compress more than MPEG2 while delivering the same or better quality of picture.

While some of DirecTV's MPEG2 HD channels and broadcasts were "bit starved" to the point of being noticeable or objectionable, so far, in it's relatively short lifespan, MPEG4 appears to be doing much better, and providing much higher picture quality.

If it is "HD lite", it's okay by me. I think my HD pictures are fantastic.

Carl


I thought I read the BBC is now 1080p. I think it is H264 with AC3 ( I downloaded the TS they released for testing last year - don't remember the framerate though I think it was 50fps). *If* DirecTV (or anyone for that matter) wanted to switch to the same type of video - would it be a whole new infrastructure (encoders, receivers, etc.) or is the existing stuff software upgradeable ?

#11 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 09:06 PM

I thought I read the BBC is now 1080p. I think it is H264 with AC3 ( I downloaded the TS they released for testing last year - don't remember the framerate though I think it was 50fps). *If* DirecTV (or anyone for that matter) wanted to switch to the same type of video - would it be a whole new infrastructure (encoders, receivers, etc.) or is the existing stuff software upgradeable ?


None of the current HR2* series systems, can output a 1080p signal...

So it would require new hardware (at a minimum), on the home consumer side of the equation.


To answer the OP's question.

What is the exact definition of HD-Lite...
It is a fairly vague internet definition ?

Some people say it is HD Lite if it is not one of the approved ATSC resolutions.... even if the images falls "between" two of the approved ATSC

Some people say it is HD Lite if it is just compressed more then they like it to be. (since all HD we see in our homes is compressed, including optical based medias).

some people say it is HD Lite... when they are comparing it to something else, with no other basis.

Others say HD Lite... just because they don't know any better.

So since there is no exact definition of HD-Lite... there is no real answer to your question.

The MPEG-4 versions we get of the channels are un-altered.
They are at the same resolution that are received from their content providers.

Compression levels are what they are, and can account for some of the image quality issues.

Others... Some are received already in a compressed degraded state (some of the HD Locals for example, by over compressed broadcasters)... and the conversion to MPEG-4... can only be as good as it source.

Some HD content... is a pure as it can get via current technology standards from content provider to DirecTV... and then compressed as efficiently as possible via DirecTV to mpeg-4 and sent to us.

So my recommendation to the OP...
Redirect that poster on the cable-forum over here...
So he/she can explain how they feel DirecTV is HD-Lite is on all channels.
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#12 OFFLINE   Cable Lover

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 09:27 PM

On a cable forum the HD-Lite topic came up & one cable lover stated:
"Currently, Dish still has a few HD-Lite channels. ALL HD on DirecTV is HD-Lite either through 1080x1440 elliptical encoding or MPEG4 compression."

Is this guy right or way off?


What cable fourm were you on? :eek:
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#13 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 09:41 PM

Thanks everyone. As usual, I learned A LOT here.
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#14 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 09:42 PM

What cable fourm were you on? :eek:


LMAO, I still have cable for my internet...until/if Fios EVER gets here.
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#15 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 09:46 PM

On a cable forum the HD-Lite topic came up & one cable lover stated:
"Currently, Dish still has a few HD-Lite channels. ALL HD on DirecTV is HD-Lite either through 1080x1440 elliptical encoding or MPEG4 compression."

Is this guy right or way off?


I've heard of ellipitical curve encryption. Is that what ellipitical encoding is based on?

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#16 OFFLINE   Grydlok

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 10:03 PM

http://www.dslreport...-What-is-HDLite


Read right here
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#17 OFFLINE   Grydlok

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 10:07 PM

If that was comcastRick I would have even chuckled.
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#18 OFFLINE   AZ_Engineer

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 10:40 PM

I assume the MPEG 4 supports various compression levels. I understand that uncompressed HD is 19.2M bits/sec. Can 2M bits/sec at 720p or 1080i be still called HD?

I realize that MPEG4 enables greater compression at the same image quality as MPEG2. But I also hear that the broadcasters and carriers can really compress a ton. With some DVD players you can monitor the bit rate realtime. Wish the D-boxes would let us do that :lol:

#19 ONLINE   longrider

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 10:48 PM

I assume the MPEG 4 supports various compression levels. I understand that uncompressed HD is 19.2M bits/sec. Can 2M bits/sec at 720p or 1080i be still called HD?

I realize that MPEG4 enables greater compression at the same image quality as MPEG2. But I also hear that the broadcasters and carriers can really compress a ton. With some DVD players you can monitor the bit rate realtime. Wish the D-boxes would let us do that :lol:


19.2 is the ATSC channel standard but that is already compressed. In the TV studio it runs about 45Mbps and true raw, uncompressed HD is way above that.
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#20 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 01:26 AM

19.2 is the ATSC channel standard but that is already compressed. In the TV studio it runs about 45Mbps and true raw, uncompressed HD is way above that.

"Uncompressed HD" would be the HDMI @ 1.4 Gb/s

AZ_Engineer:
SD VOD seems to becoming at about 3 Mb/s
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#21 OFFLINE   stogie5150

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 07:35 AM

"Uncompressed HD" would be the HDMI @ 1.4 Gb/s



I'll take that. :lol:


I define HDlite as anytime that the picture is degraded from what the broadcaster provides. By that definition ALL of D* HD is HDLite.

Get yourself a couple satellite dishes and a program called TSreader, and look at some bitrates of HD signals.

If some of you knew what BOTH satellite comapnies were doing to the signal that YOU pay good money for and what you COULD be seeing....you'd be sick all over the floor.:nono:
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#22 OFFLINE   bhelton71

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 08:33 AM

"Uncompressed HD" would be the HDMI @ 1.4 Gb/s

AZ_Engineer:
SD VOD seems to becoming at about 3 Mb/s


1080p is almost 3 Gbps and VESA is pimping DisplayPort at 10.2 Gbps. The point of that is compared to the rest of the world we (ie the US) are completely HD-Lite

But here is a silly question - how do they measure maximum bitrates ? HDMI is rated at 5Gbps - is that a burst or is that sustained ?

#23 OFFLINE   cb7214

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 08:51 AM

http://www.dslreport...-What-is-HDLite


Read right here


and if you look at the date on that posting it was from back in may of 07 before the new satellite went up and the new channels started broadcasting in MPEG4

correction: my mistake i was looking at the posters join date, the comment was from yesterday i apologize
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#24 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 09:58 AM

LMAO, I still have cable for my internet...until/if Fios EVER gets here.


And when you get Fios, you will still be on cable.

I love Fios trying to say it isn't cable, but what isn't cable about it? There is a line going to your house. It is fiber (just like most cable systems these days).
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#25 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 10:56 AM

And when you get Fios, you will still be on cable.

I love Fios trying to say it isn't cable, but what isn't cable about it? There is a line going to your house. It is fiber (just like most cable systems these days).


Ahh, you're right...I just want Fios' speed. TW is ok, but I am a download-aholic at times.
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