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Ces2008 - Hdpc20


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#51 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 07:54 AM

That was not my intention at all - and from what I understand sp1 will relax some of the dialogs. It was a feeble attempt at humor - ala mac and pc guy commercials.

I will now crawl back into my hole.


Sorry... it is early morning here in Vegas, and my cold is still in full force.
Earl - Gotta Love Karma

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#52 OFFLINE   CaMS

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 07:55 AM

Ealr, if you you are right the the Vista that the public uses now would have to be updated to sp1. Correct? Even the 360 would require a download to make it work.


NO, it will not be Vista SP1.. you will need the next Vista Media Center update, its codenamed " Fiji ". You will prob. here more info after SP1 gets released, which is hopefully soon, prob. by march.. then we have to wait for the Fiji update, then we are ready to goo..

This is not confirmed but I'm just "assuming" that the Fiji update will be around the 08 Holiday season.. Remember there is no Public beta not even to the elite M$ beta testers YET.. its only available internally to M$.. Usually when a M$ product hits beta, it RTMs around 8 months or so..and thats not including any big holdups..

So just be patient.. SP1 is a step into getting the system ready for this card... and yea it will control the UAC a little better, meaning not 1000 prompts and will beef up security and prob. put some security in place for these tuner card

#53 OFFLINE   MIAMI1683

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 07:56 AM

SP 1 will be a automatic update for all vista systems from Microsoft update sometime around the end of February. It's no big deal...I'm typing this on a Vista SP1 system. As far as I know no update to any extender including x360's would be required.


Nice, kewl stuff. I like Vista and it's been rock solid for me so that's nice to read.:)
Sometimes it just is what it is :nono2:

#54 OFFLINE   BudShark

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 07:56 AM

You know Earl... I could be on a plane by 10:00am Eastern if you need someone to take your place out there... :D

Chris

#55 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 07:56 AM

Ealr, if you you are right the the Vista that the public uses now would have to be updated to sp1. Correct? Even the 360 would require a download to make it work.


99.9% chance that it will need SP1, as over the last year... that was one of the main reasons why the unit didn't move foward faster (the HDPC-20).

SP1 is already an RC IIRC, so available for download to anyone that wants it today, and soon ready as a full blown released item...

And given that people have commented that the 360 can't talk directly to an item like this, yes... I would think the 360 would need a software update to talk directly to it.
If that is going to be an option (that is just speculation regarding the comments of working with 360 in the documents)
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#56 OFFLINE   bakerfall

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 07:58 AM

99.9% chance that it will need SP1, as over the last year... that was one of the main reasons why the unit didn't move foward faster (the HDPC-20).

SP1 is already an RC IIRC, so available for download to anyone that wants it today, and soon ready as a full blown released item...

And given that people have commented that the 360 can't talk directly to an item like this, yes... I would think the 360 would need a software update to talk directly to it.


A lot of the extender stuff is actually on the PC side (you need to install extender software when initially setting up the connection to the 360), so most likely there is an update on that end. The 360 may also have an update, but I think most of it will be PC based.

I'm really pumped for this, but I'll have to start prepping the wife that I need to buy a new computer. :)

#57 OFFLINE   MIAMI1683

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 07:58 AM

That's big news. I didn't realize sp1 was already downloadable I may try to load it tonight.
Sometimes it just is what it is :nono2:

#58 OFFLINE   ToddD

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 07:59 AM

Earl -

Any chance if you can find out how many of these wonderful machines one can stick on a single PC?


As has been the case with past media center products (turners) the official answer is 2 tuners or in this case one HDPC20. But "hacks" exist to add more than the officially supported number of tuners. The most interesting thing will be if these reside in the analog tuners space or digital one. Media center has a official limit of 2 of each type. Please do not be confused by the tuner space names, there are lot s of tuners that tune digital TV streams but reside in the analog tuner space,CableCard being one such example.

It has been reported that the next Media Center update (Fuji) will add official support for 4 tuners in each space. Fuji is expected latter this year.

#59 OFFLINE   digitalfreak

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:00 AM

My guess is only one, but can you imagine having two or three of these on one PC? That's 4-6 video streams! LOL! :eek2:


I already have 4 OTA tuners in my Vista MCE machine. All 4 can record at one time without a single hiccup. I've seen folks with 8 tuners running at once. :D

#60 OFFLINE   BudShark

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:00 AM

A lot of the extender stuff is actually on the PC side (you need to install extender software when initially setting up the connection to the 360), so most likely there is an update on that end. The 360 may also have an update, but I think most of it will be PC based.

I'm really pumped for this, but I'll have to start prepping the wife that I need to buy a new computer. :)


The thought/remote possibility is that the HDPC20 will work directly off the USB port of the 360 - effectively turning the 360 into an advanced DirecTV receiver (no PC, no extender, no Vista - just a 360)

Which would be really cool for dorms/colleges/apartments... I'd like the MRV solution of having it on a PC, but IF they make it work directly with a 360 I can see the value.

Chris

#61 OFFLINE   MIAMI1683

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:00 AM

A lot of the extender stuff is actually on the PC side (you need to install extender software when initially setting up the connection to the 360), so most likely there is an update on that end. The 360 may also have an update, but I think most of it will be PC based.

I'm really pumped for this, but I'll have to start prepping the wife that I need to buy a new computer. :)


My extender was built in right from Vista. It comes up and finds my 360 from the start without any help. It's literally just plug and play. I use Vista Ultimate. Maybe thats why
Sometimes it just is what it is :nono2:

#62 OFFLINE   CaMS

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:00 AM

NO, it will not be Vista SP1.. you will need the next Vista Media Center update, its codenamed " Fiji ". You will prob. here more info after SP1 gets released, which is hopefully soon, prob. by march.. then we have to wait for the Fiji update, then we are ready to goo..

This is not confirmed but I'm just "assuming" that the Fiji update will be around the 08 Holiday season.. Remember there is no Public beta not even to the elite M$ beta testers YET.. its only available internally to M$.. Usually when a M$ product hits beta, it RTMs around 8 months or so..and thats not including any big holdups..

So just be patient.. SP1 is a step into getting the system ready for this card... and yea it will control the UAC a little better, meaning not 1000 prompts and will beef up security and prob. put some security in place for these tuner card


And as far as the 360.. YES it will need a update to work with playing the Directv content...remember as of right now its VERY limted on the codecs it can play.. ESP. on the extender end..

#63 OFFLINE   bakerfall

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:01 AM

My extender was built in right from Vista. It comes up and finds my 360 from the start without any help. It's literally just plug and play. I use Vista Ultimate. Maybe thats why


I used Vista for a while but it didn't like my video card so I switched back to xp media center, I guess I don't remember all the steps.

It was pretty painless with XP, from what I remember, but definitely involved an install.

#64 OFFLINE   BudShark

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:03 AM

And as far as the 360.. YES it will need a update to work with playing the Directv content...remember as of right now its VERY limted on the codecs it can play.. ESP. on the extender end..


Actually when used with Vista and Media Center- it shouldn't. Vista would be doing to capture/recording and the result would be a standard media center encoded file/stream which would work just fine with the Xbox360 - same as cablecards, etc... It would just be another tuner.

Chris

#65 OFFLINE   ToddD

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:04 AM

That was not my intention at all - and from what I understand sp1 will relax some of the dialogs. It was a feeble attempt at humor - ala mac and pc guy commercials.

I will now crawl back into my hole.


Hope you did not feel like you were being picked on....it's just that those Mac commercials have made us Vista people rather sensitive. :eek2:

#66 OFFLINE   CaMS

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:05 AM

Actually when used with Vista and Media Center- it shouldn't. Vista would be doing to capture/recording and the result would be a standard media center encoded file/stream which would work just fine with the Xbox360 - same as cablecards, etc... It would just be another tuner.

Chris


Not sure on that, is the cablecard systems MPEG4??

#67 OFFLINE   bakerfall

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:06 AM

Actually when used with Vista and Media Center- it shouldn't. Vista would be doing to capture/recording and the result would be a standard media center encoded file/stream which would work just fine with the Xbox360 - same as cablecards, etc... It would just be another tuner.

Chris


That's kind of what I'm thinking. I don't believe there have been any extender updates for the 360 yet, (although there should be as codec support does not trickle down from Media Center). So far as TV is concerned, it shouldn't be an issue.

#68 OFFLINE   Yogi76

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:09 AM

What's the Ethernet port for on the back? "Future use"?


This is from a post I also made on the The Green Button.

You will notice there are acutally two USB ports and an ethernet port. One USB is a USB "A" plug, which is typically used for an incoming USB connection, while the other is a USB "B" plug, normally for an outgoing USB connection. I would assume the USB "B" is for connecting the tuner straight to a Media Center computer.

The ethernet and USB "A" plug are a little more tricky. If I had to guess (and this is only a GUESS), I would say it's for networked tuning support similar to an HDHomerun; the ethenet port for wired access, obviously, and the USB port for an add-on wireless device. Remember, most people that currently have DirecTV have the cables running from the dish to their living room or bedrooms, not to their home office. For someone who will have their Media Center computer in the living room connected directly to the TV, they will simply connect the HDPC-20 via USB. For those that want to have the computer in the office and use an Extender, they will be able to place the HDPC-20 behind the TV in the living room using the existing DirecTV cabling and then connect it to their home network for the home office PC to control. I use a similar setup with my HDHomerun and cable (clear QAM) currently.

Also, something else that makes me think (hope) it is for network tuning is the fact that the original OCUR test devices had ethernet tuning capabilities. It was even mentioned in the AnandTech review that it would be removed in the first models to be added back in at a later time. That hasn't happened yet on the digital cable tuners, but they run into less of a problem with coax coming into the house. Many homes have cable coax outlets in every room already. DirecTV typically runs straight from the dish to the device, and currently that device is in the living room for the great majority of DirecTV subscribers.

I can't post a URL on this board yet, but you can see the original OCUR with ethernet and mention of it's removal by searching for "ocur ethernet anandtech" on Google.

Yogi

#69 OFFLINE   ToddD

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:11 AM

Not sure on that, is the cablecard systems MPEG4??


The Media Center security for Advanced TV (today CableCARD) does not store the files in the transmitted formats. So the File that will be played back from the Media Center will be a WMV stream...no update to the extender is needed....and remember if we are talking X360 it has two different playback file sets, one for extender and one for x360 dashboard.

#70 OFFLINE   UnnDunn

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:13 AM

Is it possible that this device would transcode incoming MPEG4 signals into MPEG2 before sending it to the PC? It seems to me that would solve any codec issues...

#71 OFFLINE   ToddD

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:14 AM

This is from a post I also made on the The Green Button.

You will notice there are acutally two USB ports and an ethernet port. One USB is a USB "A" plug, which is typically used for an incoming USB connection, while the other is a USB "B" plug, normally for an outgoing USB connection. I would assume the USB "B" is for connecting the tuner straight to a Media Center computer.

The ethernet and USB "A" plug are a little more tricky. If I had to guess (and this is only a GUESS), I would say it's for networked tuning support similar to an HDHomerun; the ethenet port for wired access, obviously, and the USB port for an add-on wireless device. Remember, most people that currently have DirecTV have the cables running from the dish to their living room or bedrooms, not to their home office. For someone who will have their Media Center computer in the living room connected directly to the TV, they will simply connect the HDPC-20 via USB. For those that want to have the computer in the office and use an Extender, they will be able to place the HDPC-20 behind the TV in the living room using the existing DirecTV cabling and then connect it to their home network for the home office PC to control. I use a similar setup with my HDHomerun and cable (clear QAM) currently.

Also, something else that makes me think (hope) it is for network tuning is the fact that the original OCUR test devices had ethernet tuning capabilities. It was even mentioned in the AnandTech review that it would be removed in the first models to be added back in at a later time. That hasn't happened yet on the digital cable tuners, but they run into less of a problem with coax coming into the house. Many homes have cable coax outlets in every room already. DirecTV typically runs straight from the dish to the device, and currently that device is in the living room for the great majority of DirecTV subscribers.

I can't post a URL on this board yet, but you can see the original OCUR with ethernet and mention of it's removal by searching for "ocur ethernet anandtech" on Google.

Yogi



You raise a good point ...most people do not realize that while OCUR turners plug into the PC via USB they are network devices . They have a embedded Web page. There has been talk of a OCUR over ethernet.

#72 OFFLINE   chrisfowler99

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:14 AM

Hmm...2 USB ports. Chaining?

The PC Link port looks like the one that will go directly to the PC.

And there's another USB port. Another HDPC20? An AM21?

Curious...

#73 OFFLINE   Yogi76

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:15 AM

Some of the big questions that have been longstanding in the MCE community regarding the DirecTV tuner are:

1.) Will it be OEM only requiring the purchase of a "certified" computer with a special BIOS, etc.?

2.) Will it wrap all recordings in DRM like the current CableCard Media Center recordings? This prevents the use of tools like DVRMSToolbox, transferring recordings to a laptop, or the transcoding of recordings for use on portable devices?

3.) Price and availability? I know we probably won't get the answer to this one, but I can hope on the first two.

Yogi

#74 OFFLINE   bhelton71

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:15 AM

Hope you did not feel like you were being picked on....it's just that those Mac commercials have made us Vista people rather sensitive. :eek2:


Not at all - it was a poorly placed joke in a very public thread - this one might hit 20,000 reads before the end of the week.

#75 OFFLINE   BudShark

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:17 AM

Not sure on that, is the cablecard systems MPEG4??


Doesn't matter...

The HDPC20 will decode the MPEG4/MPEG2 stream and feed it to Vista Media Center. Vista will take the stream from the HDPC20 and process it in the same way it would OTA, cable, cablecard, etc. The result should be a Media Center file with DRM to limit the distribution of the content.

Anyhow - the resulting file would be served up no different to an Xbox360 extender than anything else on that Media Center. They won't have special encoding for DirecTV and the extender will not need to decode raw DirecTV streams...

Chris




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