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HR20 - Wimpy power supply??


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29 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 08:22 PM

After battling with the tuner #2/110 sat issue, I was sitting here watching a bit of TV. Suddenly an idea occurred to me. On the coax line from both Tuner 1 & 2 is supposedly 18vdc (I think). What if the power supply specs are just a tad wimpy for running the receiver, LNBs and BBCs? Then add in a little slop in building and you've got a potential for something like switching not occurring properly.

With my HR20, I can force the kill of 110 on #2 by taking the signal strength page and going to 103© and then back to 110. If I had a signal on #2 on 110 before, I won't have it then. That is switching. And I've seen it that when I went back to 110 on 2 that the signal would jump up and then drop to 'not acquired' in just a couple of seconds.

Kind of like a switch making and then not holding.

Have I stumbled on something here or is it just wishfull thinking on my part?

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


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#2 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 07:36 AM

I have thought myself that alot of problems can happen because of a marginal power supply that operates outside of it's margin. I believe alot of rebooting problems are blamed on hard drives failing when there simply isn't enough power for the drive to spin up fully so it reboots.

There could be alot of other issues caused by a marginal or bad power supply not supplying adequate power to the DVR!!!
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#3 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 07:45 AM

The HR20 power supply and HR21 series power supplies are different, not only by model, but also by manufacturer.

In any case, they are actually more than needed, and quite well filtered (having seen the guts up close and personal on 3 models).

That said, you are absolutely correct that a defective or malfunctioning supply can lead to all sorts of cryptic behavior and performance. The only good news, if you want to call it "good", is that when you have a bad supply, it tends to die out pretty quickly, so at least it won't linger as a problem - of course then, you have to replace the whole unit.
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#4 OFFLINE   bt-rtp

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:10 AM

I found that the Sonora polarity locker / power supply helps in this regard. I don't ever see the 771 searching for signal errors and my HR20s run much cooler, under 100 degrees.

The other benefit of the polarity locker is faster channel changes, but only when going from -and- to channels sourced from satellite transponders, not OTA sources.
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#5 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:12 AM

I agree with hdtvfan0001, by design the power supplies should be adequate to the task. Yours, on the other hand, may be a problem.
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#6 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:27 AM

The HR20 power supply and HR21 series power supplies are different, not only by model, but also by manufacturer.

In any case, they are actually more than needed, and quite well filtered (having seen the guts up close and personal on 3 models).

That said, you are absolutely correct that a defective or malfunctioning supply can lead to all sorts of cryptic behavior and performance. The only good news, if you want to call it "good", is that when you have a bad supply, it tends to die out pretty quickly, so at least it won't linger as a problem - of course then, you have to replace the whole unit.


I do know of a company that can replace the power supply unit if it goes bad so all is not lost in that instance.
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#7 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:28 AM

I found that the Sonora polarity locker / power supply helps in this regard. I don't ever see the 771 searching for signal errors and my HR20s run much cooler, under 100 degrees.

The other benefit of the polarity locker is faster channel changes, but only when going from -and- to channels sourced from satellite transponders, not OTA sources.


Where is the link for that Sonora Polarity Locker/Power Supply???
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#8 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:39 AM

The HR20 power supply and HR21 series power supplies are different, not only by model, but also by manufacturer.

In any case, they are actually more than needed, and quite well filtered (having seen the guts up close and personal on 3 models).

That said, you are absolutely correct that a defective or malfunctioning supply can lead to all sorts of cryptic behavior and performance. The only good news, if you want to call it "good", is that when you have a bad supply, it tends to die out pretty quickly, so at least it won't linger as a problem - of course then, you have to replace the whole unit.


I'm new to Direct's equipment having just switched, so excuse what may end up being dumb questions.

Was the use of BBCs planned in the design of the HR20's? If not, then maybe the PS isn't quite up to snuff for it.

It seems like there are a couple of different ways the 771 error is coming up. Some have a lower signal on some transponder/sat combinations. Others are like me, 110, sat2 has zero signal strength after switching to say 103© for a look. I also have seen times when I looked at signal strength and the 110 on sat 2 would acquire quickly and drop just as quickly to zero. This is what led me to believe that switching wasn't occurring properly.

BTW, on sat 103©, the signal strength on tuner 2 is 20 points lower than on tuner 1. But only when the BBC is in the picture. This has held consistent through 2 HR20s, 2 LNBs and at least 6 BBCs. Direct is sending me 2 more BBCs, but frankly I'll be surprised if they fix the problem.

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#9 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:39 AM

Google is your friend:
http://www.google.co...G=Google Search

http://www.techtools...ROD&ProdID=1009

----

You won't see much of a dramatic improvement in channel changing speeds, even if you add the polarity locker.
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#10 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:41 AM

I found that the Sonora polarity locker / power supply helps in this regard. I don't ever see the 771 searching for signal errors and my HR20s run much cooler, under 100 degrees.

The other benefit of the polarity locker is faster channel changes, but only when going from -and- to channels sourced from satellite transponders, not OTA sources.


My system is a single receiver with no switch that I'm aware of, just straight wire from dish to BBC. Would the Sonora be of value in that instance? And if so, just how do you put it into the system? All in the house or at the dish or whatever?

Since it is cheap enough, I would be willing to add it to my system if it would fix this perplexing problem.

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#11 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:41 AM

I agree with hdtvfan0001, by design the power supplies should be adequate to the task. Yours, on the other hand, may be a problem.


Except I'm on the 2nd receiver... :(

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#12 OFFLINE   blc

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:42 AM

I would agree that it sounds like a switching issue. However, I have 2 almost brand new HR20's and they both experience the same 110 signal drops that you speak of after tuning to the 103(b, s, or whatever the heck Dtv choses to name it this week) sat meter. I have a hard time believing that both HR20's are defective in this unique manner. It leads me back to the conclusion that it may be a software issue for certain accounts--a conflict of some programming authorizations on the accounts. But that is just my uneducated guess because the very unique signal drops that you speak of should not be so easily repeatable with almost the exact same signal readings on my receivers (both) and your receiver as well as other people's receivers who have this same issue. Regardless, I have just about given up trying to solve the problem and just live with it as it has not caused any loss of viewing yet for me. As one poster has stated, it may be a combination of software, bbc, and tuner 2 of some receivers. It clearly is not just a bbc issue because the same bbc that functions perfectly on tuner 1 does not fix the problem on tuner 2. Likewise, the bbc from tuner 2 works perfectly on tuner 1. I have taken both HR20's to the roof and used short jumpers from the LNB and repeated the signal drops to remove any question about issues with the line or connections. I have replaced the LNB. I have bought a second HR20 and the problem is on that one too. Thus, I give up.

#13 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:44 AM

Except I'm on the 2nd receiver... :(


How long are you runs between your box and your dish?
Are they new cables at the time of installation?
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#14 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:45 AM

The problem is easy enough to work around when I'm watching live TV, but it is nearly impossible to work around for overnight recordings. That to me is the bigger issue.

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#15 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:47 AM

How long are you runs between your box and your dish?
Are they new cables at the time of installation?


The length is about 30' and it was new cable.

Signal strengths on all sats w/o the BBC in place are in the 80's to high 90's. On tuner 2, signal strengths on most are the same with or without BBC, except on 103© (20 points lower) and of course, the zero on 110 after going to 103© during signal strength tests. When shocked to have 110 tuner 2 to have a signal, the difference between tuner 1 and 2 on 110 is about 10 points, tuner 2 being lower.

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#16 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:02 AM

That run is way short enough, the Sonora won't make a difference.

Have you considered having your BBC's replaced?
If the sat signals are that much higher with the BBC's on, there may be your problem.

You may also have an issue with your LNB assembly on your dish.
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#17 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:14 AM

That run is way short enough, the Sonora won't make a difference.

Have you considered having your BBC's replaced?
If the sat signals are that much higher with the BBC's on, there may be your problem.

You may also have an issue with your LNB assembly on your dish.


I've been through 6 BBCs and Direct is sending 2 more to try. And the LNB assembly has already been changed for this issue.

Last time I talked to Direct they said that if the BBCs didn't fix the problem, then they would have to dispatch a service call and that at that time, the tech would have a new receiver with him just in case. Other than the problem isn't fixed yet, I can't complain about how Direct has dealt with me on this issue.

I'm even willing to take a HR21 if it would fix the problem as I don't now need the OTA capability of the HR20. But aren't there some reports of the HR21 showing this same issue?

I'm frustrated...

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#18 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:37 AM

I agree with hdtvfan0001, by design the power supplies should be adequate to the task. Yours, on the other hand, may be a problem.

Ask any tech - intermittent power supply problems are the toughest to diagnose and hardest to repair. I'm glad to read our power supplies are beefier than they should be and well filtered. Does that include well regulated? (although this is not a requirement - I know of a lot of power amps that get their gusto by using unregulated power supplies)

Because he deliberately used them, I'm sure Stuart well knows the meaning of the "should be" words in his post. Ask Denon, for example, when about 8 years ago they were replacing power supplies in their receivers left and right. They Should Have Been sufficient to drive 4 ohm speaker loads but weren't.

All of this said, I've wondered this question myself. If I ever find a good deal, I'm going to add a power conditioner to my home theater. One of the APC pieces with battery backup would be nice but they start at $1,300 retail. Yikes!
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#19 OFFLINE   blc

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:37 AM

It appears from your prior posts that you have done all the things I have done (1) switched bbc's, (2) switched lnb's, (3) tried a new HR20. The problem won't go away. I recall reading some posts on other threads when researching this issue where the HR20 was replaced with an HR21 and problem APPEARED to go away, but returned in short time.

I feel for you. There are several others with the exact same problem. I have also seen this issue posted on the Directv Help Forums. Directv needs to attempt to solve the root of the problem, but they likely do not know where to start. Any csr you speak with about it will tell you that they have never heard of the problem. Maybe they need to visit the boards a little more often.

#20 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:40 AM

I've been through 6 BBCs and Direct is sending 2 more to try. And the LNB assembly has already been changed for this issue.

Last time I talked to Direct they said that if the BBCs didn't fix the problem, then they would have to dispatch a service call and that at that time, the tech would have a new receiver with him just in case. Other than the problem isn't fixed yet, I can't complain about how Direct has dealt with me on this issue.

I'm even willing to take a HR21 if it would fix the problem as I don't now need the OTA capability of the HR20. But aren't there some reports of the HR21 showing this same issue?

I'm frustrated...


There are reports of all models, showing all sorts of problems..... As there are other factors that go into play.

If you have had the LNB assembly changed, the box changed twice... 6 BBC's...

Then it might be a DISH pointing issue, Line of Site issue, or something with the new cables they ran (the ends, or the phsycial cable)... something...

If it was a cronic/software issue with the HR2* you would be seeing a LOT more posts on the topic, as there is still a significant amount of HD material comming from the 110 slot.
Earl - Gotta Love Karma

DIRECTV employee since April 2008.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV




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