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Guest Message by DevFuse

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VOOM sues Dish.


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177 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   buzzcut

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 07:53 AM

i just went from HD Ultimate to HD Essentials on Feb 27th.

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#27 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:09 AM

HDnet is even repeative and I cant find stuff to watch on anything on the DISHHD Ultimate pack. I would trade voom for USA and SCI-fi FX and either CNN or Fox News... Comedy Central. ETC.


Couldn't ignore this part of your post... You find HDNet repetitive, and Voom as well... but don't think USA or SciFi or FX are repetitive?

I've seen nights where on FX the same movie comes on back-to-back! That's repetitive to me.

It's a fair point to complaint about repetition... but please be fair and note that many of the channels you'd trade Voom for are also just as repetitive.

Now, if you like the programming on SciFi better than a particular Voom channel, that's cool. I don't watch Ultra at all, for instance, on Voom... but to state Voom is bad because it is repetitive, and then turn a blind eye to the same kind of repetitiveness on another channel makes no sense to me.

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#28 OFFLINE   Austin316

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:32 AM

Couldn't ignore this part of your post... You find HDNet repetitive, and Voom as well... but don't think USA or SciFi or FX are repetitive?

I've seen nights where on FX the same movie comes on back-to-back! That's repetitive to me.

It's a fair point to complaint about repetition... but please be fair and note that many of the channels you'd trade Voom for are also just as repetitive.

Now, if you like the programming on SciFi better than a particular Voom channel, that's cool. I don't watch Ultra at all, for instance, on Voom... but to state Voom is bad because it is repetitive, and then turn a blind eye to the same kind of repetitiveness on another channel makes no sense to me.


Ok maybe I should put it this way

FX , Sci-fi , USA are repeative but they are repeative on shows people actually want to see. I am a big Starcraft and WoW player. But I am sorry how many times are Gameplay going to show the Blizzard world wide inventational from 07.

I like the concept of voom but really feel that the could condense channels to reduce repeative . Like take 4 of the speciality movie channels and just make it one.

Basically I shown people Voom and they are all impressed with it until they go to see what else is on and they see constant repeative content. With no real public schedule to add more.

At least I know with USA, Sci-fi , etc that they have prime time content that is in HD. Which like any broadcast network with have there season and there off season. I could really care less what is not in "Prime Time" Be it on Voom or Cable or Broadcast networks.

I do take back the comment about HDnet because while it really not a channel I got into they are no where as bad as Voom channels are.

#29 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 09:40 AM

Let's stay on the topic of the Voom vs EchoStar lawsuit, shall we? This isn't about the desire for other channels. We have a rant thread in the DISH HD forum for that.
:backtotop

FYI: Cablevision announced it's annual numbers today for 2007 ... according to the report, there were 300,000 Voom subscribers Dec 31st, 2006 and 1.8 million Sept 30, 2007. As of the end of 2007,r 2.1 million people have Voom. This includes DISH Network HD subscribers (HD Ultimate) and Cablevision subscribers.

The lawsuit was filed January 31st, before the new HD packages went into effect.

#30 OFFLINE   HobbyTalk

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:53 AM

That's interesting numbers. Wonder now many of those are from Cablevision? If it's 1/3 then that means E* only had about 1.5 million HD subs at the end of 2007. About 10% for their total subscriber base.

#31 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 11:59 AM

I'd say 1.5 million would be a fair guess ... perhaps high.
Cablevision did not begin to announce their Voom subscriber count until 2007.
Some of the 1.8 million in September were Cablevision subscribers.

I hope we will see better numbers in court documents ... the one positive thing about everybody suing DISH Network is the disclosures in court documents of numbers that DISH (and DirecTV) do not normally give out. :D

#32 OFFLINE   peak_reception

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:28 PM

I have to say that for me there is content I like on the VOOM networks. However, as everyone else often notes, there is not enough NEW content. I'll probably drop down to HD Essentials come May when my 10 months of 1/2 off HD offer ends.

#33 OFFLINE   space86

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:54 PM

Is Voom really worth ten dollars more a month, not for me I decided I would rather have STARZ instead.

#34 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 01:59 AM

If offered the 1 cent deal on Voom like Cinemax I wouldn't take it if it means fewer nationals with new primetime programming. And right now, that's what it means.

However, I want Universal HD and HDNet Movies, so I'll pay the $10 with or without the Voom channels.

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#35 OFFLINE   Hound

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:57 AM

Cablevision did announce their HD sub count and it was over 1 million giving cablevision HD penetration
of 33 percent. SO E*'s HD subs is slightly over 1 million for a penetration of about seven percent. Why is E*s penetration so low? E charged 20 for HD and 5 for locals and only provided 4 HD locals in 35 markets and does not have HD rsns for many large markets. Cablevision does not charge for HD or locals. and cablevision provieds at least 7 HD locals and 4 HD rsns to all subs. cablevision provides YES HD which E* does not even have carriage agreement.

#36 OFFLINE   rey_1178

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 07:00 AM

If offered the 1 cent deal on Voom like Cinemax I wouldn't take it if it means fewer nationals with new primetime programming. And right now, that's what it means.

However, I want Universal HD and HDNet Movies, so I'll pay the $10 with or without the Voom channels.


yeah same here. i want the unhd and hdnet so i have topay the $10. voom alone isn't worth that. besides the fact that voom isn't investing much for new programming they decide to sue dish is incredible to me! they should do this to dish :gott:

#37 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 07:57 AM

If offered the 1 cent deal on Voom like Cinemax I wouldn't take it if it means fewer nationals with new primetime programming. And right now, that's what it means.


That's not what it means. Voom is absolutely NOT preventing new HD channels from launching on Dish. Follow the uplink reports and you'll see some empty transponders, space for channels on others, and a few channels already "uplinked" but not yet active for subscribers.

Unless and until all that is full and active, you can't even begin to "blame" Voom for keeping channels off Dish. It simply is not true.

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#38 OFFLINE   rey_1178

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 08:26 AM

That's not what it means. Voom is absolutely NOT preventing new HD channels from launching on Dish. Follow the uplink reports and you'll see some empty transponders, space for channels on others, and a few channels already "uplinked" but not yet active for subscribers.

Unless and until all that is full and active, you can't even begin to "blame" Voom for keeping channels off Dish. It simply is not true.


that is correct but in my opinion for the way voom is acting against dish and the poor effort they put towards new programming they are not worth even $10
as far as them preventing dish from adding channels you are 100% correct that this is not the case. :new_cussi

#39 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 04:16 PM

That's not what it means. Voom is absolutely NOT preventing new HD channels from launching on Dish. Follow the uplink reports and you'll see some empty transponders, space for channels on others, and a few channels already "uplinked" but not yet active for subscribers.

Unless and until all that is full and active, you can't even begin to "blame" Voom for keeping channels off Dish. It simply is not true.

What everyone is assuming is that if Dish were not carrying Voom they wouldn't have used those 15 channels for other HD last October. I find that hard to believe.

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#40 OFFLINE   tomcrown1

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 05:19 PM

I do not understand according to James Voom has to produce a certin # of new program hours. Voom is not doing this so why is Dish still keeping Voom?? Why not drop them and add more popular HD Channels???
Welcome to Dish the new AT&T

:) life is to to to short so be???

#41 OFFLINE   Greg Bimson

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 05:36 PM

I do not understand according to James Voom has to produce a certin # of new program hours. Voom is not doing this so why is Dish still keeping Voom??

I thought it wasn't the "# of new program hours," but the amount of money spent to acquire programming. And that is why there is a lawsuit.

#42 OFFLINE   rey_1178

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:04 PM

I thought it wasn't the "# of new program hours," but the amount of money spent to acquire programming. And that is why there is a lawsuit.


correct. it's the amount of money

#43 OFFLINE   ClaudeR

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:17 PM

I know I dropped to the HD Essentials the first day it came out. I bet if there was a poll, we would see a HUGE percentage like this. Another dying company pissed becaused they are going down. QUICK - CALL THE LAWYERS! :money: :money: :money: :money:

#44 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:34 PM

I do not understand according to James Voom has to produce a certin # of new program hours. Voom is not doing this so why is Dish still keeping Voom?? Why not drop them and add more popular HD Channels???

It is money, not hours, that is the benchmark for Voom ...

Under the terms of the affiliation arrangements with EchoStar covering the VOOM HD Networks for a 15 year term, if Rainbow HD Holdings fails to spend $100,000 per year (subject to reduction to reflect permanent reductions in the number of channels constituting the VOOM HD service), up to a maximum of $500,000 in the aggregate, on its service offerings, EchoStar may terminate the affiliation agreement. Echostar has exercised its audit rights under the affiliation agreement to determine whether Rainbow HD Holdings is in compliance with these requirements. The Company has the right to terminate the affiliation agreement if the VOOM HD Networks are discontinued in the future.

Emphasis added on the important parts. Apparently DISH believes Cablevision isn't spending enough on Voom programming -- or there would not be an audit underway.

The bad part is if Cablevision fails the worst case scenario is DISH gets out of the contract. DISH loses content. :(

#45 OFFLINE   racton1

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:53 PM

Dish Voom sued drop Voom and give us some real HD programs


AMEN!

#46 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 07:13 PM

An update from the 2007 10K filed by Cablevision (made public yesterday):

In 2005, subsidiaries of the Company entered into agreements with EchoStar by which EchoStar acquired a 20% interest in VOOM HD and agreed to distribute VOOM on its DISH Network for a 15-year term. The affiliation agreement with EchoStar for such distribution provides that if VOOM HD fails to spend $100 million per year (subject to reduction to the extent that the number of offered channels is reduced to fewer than 21), up to a maximum of $500 million in the aggregate, on VOOM, EchoStar may seek to terminate the agreement under certain circumstances. On January 30, 2008, EchoStar purported to terminate the affiliation agreement, effective February 1, 2008, based on its assertion that VOOM HD had failed to comply with this spending provision in 2006. On January 31, 2008, VOOM HD sought and obtained a temporary restraining order from New York Supreme Court for New York County prohibiting EchoStar from terminating the affiliation agreement. In conjunction with its request for a temporary restraining order, VOOM HD filed a lawsuit against EchoStar asserting that EchoStar did not have the right to terminate the affiliation agreement. That lawsuit is pending, as is the court’s decision on VOOM HD’s motion for a preliminary injunction. Separately, on February 1, 2008, EchoStar began to distribute VOOM in a manner that the Company believes violates EchoStar’s obligations under the affiliation agreement. On February 4, 2008, VOOM HD notified EchoStar of its position that this new distribution constitutes a material breach of the affiliation agreement and reserved all its rights and remedies.

Apparently DISH didn't like the audit!

The oddest part of this, is the paragraph quoted previously is from Cablevision's 3rd quarter report - and it gives $100k and $500k number. Now in the annual report it is $100 million and $500 million.

#47 OFFLINE   rey_1178

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 07:25 PM

AMEN!


+1:cuttle:

#48 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:32 AM

What everyone is assuming is that if Dish were not carrying Voom they wouldn't have used those 15 channels for other HD last October. I find that hard to believe.


There are apparently 7 uplinked HD channels right now that are not available to us... Voom is not preventing those from being turned on... so it is a reasonable leap to say that even if Voom was not on Dish at all 6 months ago, we would still not have SciFi, USA, etc. at this point.

We don't know what is preventing some of the new HD channels launching on Dish... but right at this moment it isn't lack of bandwidth because of having Voom that is preventing.

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#49 OFFLINE   gargoyle8

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 11:28 AM

i wish i had read this sooner. i just switched to D* because i did not appreciate how dish rearranged thier hd packages. the total hd package for $29.99 was a good idea except you are not allowed to add any SD packages to it. i felt dish was punishing everybody that was demanding a complete hd package. i will regret leaving dish, but i have cnn hd and twc hd to help me get over it. the voom chennels (even though they suck) is what gave dish the advantage over D*. they should be part of the basic hd package, without them, i dont see how dish can continue to make their bogus claim "we have the most hd channels available" dish owes voom some respect.

#50 OFFLINE   rey_1178

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 01:13 PM

i wish i had read this sooner. i just switched to D* because i did not appreciate how dish rearranged thier hd packages. the total hd package for $29.99 was a good idea except you are not allowed to add any SD packages to it. i felt dish was punishing everybody that was demanding a complete hd package. i will regret leaving dish, but i have cnn hd and twc hd to help me get over it. the voom chennels (even though they suck) is what gave dish the advantage over D*. they should be part of the basic hd package, without them, i dont see how dish can continue to make their bogus claim "we have the most hd channels available" dish owes voom some respect.


:smoking:




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