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103(a) or 103(s) Channels in Los Angeles


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#1 OFFLINE   turbrodude

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 12:40 PM

I'm wondering exactly which channels I can expect to receive from the 103(s) satellite. In Los Angeles, I only see transponders 6, 16, 19, 20, and 21 with any signal strength. TP6 is at 100% while the others are 67-75%. I believe local HD channels come in on these. Am I correct? Are these the MPEG 4 locals?

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#2 OFFLINE   Supervolcano

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 07:33 AM

Last I knew, LA's "Big 4 Networks" were still MPEG2-HD on 119 since they're National DNS, but even when they make the switch to MPEG4-HD, which I think is like March 31st, they will still be National DNS, so I suspect they'll be on 103©.

103(s) has:
KTLA-TV5 (CW)
KCAL-TV9
KCOP-TV13 (MYTV)

Those 3 channels would fit on 1 spotbeam, so that's probably TP6 since you get 100% on that one. The rest of the spotbeams that have low signal are meant for other cities near you that are "bleeding into" your city.
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#3 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 08:25 AM

Pretty sure supervolcano is right on this one.
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#4 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 08:38 AM

There are two sets of HD locals in LA. The "old" ones (2, 5, 7 and 9 as I remember) are on 119 in MPEG-2. The "new" ones (with the same channels, 2, 5, 7 and 9, , plus KTLA, KCAL and KCOP) are broadcast as a local spotbeam just like everyone else's locals, in MPEG-4 and (at least some of them) from DirecTV10. I am pretty certain one of the DirecTV10 transponders they use is 103(s) TP21, I think this is where the basic HD locals come from (at least it was a couple of weeks ago).
When the DNS channels move to MPEG-4, I assume the spotbeamed "basic" locals will move from a DirecTV spotbeam transponder on 103(s) to a DirecTV CONUS transponder listed on 103©, with the others staying on 103(s).
The OP needs to check his 103© signal strengths. If they are in the 90s then dish aim is OK. If they are only in the same range as the 103(s) TP21 signal, that's an indication that the dish could be better aligned (although it is well within the DireCTV "normal" range).
TP6 on 103(s) is from Spaceway 1 in the 103 slot. It is quite possible that this is being used for the new "extra" HD local channels but I don't know this for sure. If so, that would mean LA is currently getting MPEG-2 HD locals from 119, and MPEG-4 HD locals from two different satellites at 103.

#5 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 08:59 AM

Pretty sure supervolcano is right on this one.


Essentially correct as far as I can see. With the possible exception that I think the L.A. “big four” HD locals, KCBS (CBS), KNBC (NBC), KABC (ABC), and KTTV (FOX) are currently being simulcast on a 119 satellite CONUS beam in MPEG 2 for DNS purposes. Along with the “big four” on a CONUS beam in MPEG 4 on the Ka band 103© sat. (D10), accompanied by HD locals, KTLA (CW), KCAL (IND.), and KCOP (My) on a spot beam from Ka band 103(s) (D10 as well). This simulcast will take place until 3/31/08 to allow time for subscribers of these LA HD LiLs to complete upgrades to MPEG 4 equipment. After which the MPEG 2 DNS feed at 119 will be permanently terminated.

#6 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 09:29 AM

There are two sets of HD locals in LA. The "old" ones (2, 5, 7 and 9 as I remember) are on 119 in MPEG-2. The "new" ones (with the same channels, 2, 5, 7 and 9, , plus KTLA, KCAL and KCOP) are broadcast as a local spotbeam just like everyone else's locals, in MPEG-4 and (at least some of them) from DirecTV10. I am pretty certain one of the DirecTV10 transponders they use is 103(s) TP21, I think this is where the basic HD locals come from (at least it was a couple of weeks ago).
When the DNS channels move to MPEG-4, I assume the spotbeamed "basic" locals will move from a DirecTV spotbeam transponder on 103(s) to a DirecTV CONUS transponder listed on 103©, with the others staying on 103(s).
The OP needs to check his 103© signal strengths. If they are in the 90s then dish aim is OK. If they are only in the same range as the 103(s) TP21 signal, that's an indication that the dish could be better aligned (although it is well within the DireCTV "normal" range).
TP6 on 103(s) is from Spaceway 1 in the 103 slot. It is quite possible that this is being used for the new "extra" HD local channels but I don't know this for sure. If so, that would mean LA is currently getting MPEG-2 HD locals from 119, and MPEG-4 HD locals from two different satellites at 103.


Actually texasbrit, as I just posted, the “old set” of HD locals here in L.A. are ch. 2 (KCBS), ch. 4 (KNBC), ch. 7 (KABC), and ch. 11 (KTTV), which serve as the west HD DNS channels in MPEG 2 on a CONUS beam from 119. With the “new” L.A. HD locals, 2, 4, 7, 11, presently being simulcast in MPEG 4 on a CONUS beam from Ka band sat. 103© (D10), which will also serve as the sole western HD DNS feeds after 3/31/08. L.A. local channels 5 (KTLA), 9 (KCAL), and 13 (KCOP), that are not part of the DNS package, are on a Los Angeles Ka band spot beam from 103(s) (also D10).

#7 OFFLINE   Supervolcano

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 09:37 AM

West coast MPEG4-HD DNS is active in the 390's.
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#8 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 10:54 AM

Actually texasbrit, as I just posted, the “old set” of HD locals here in L.A. are ch. 2 (KCBS), ch. 4 (KNBC), ch. 7 (KABC), and ch. 11 (KTTV), which serve as the west HD DNS channels in MPEG 2 on a CONUS beam from 119. With the “new” L.A. HD locals, 2, 4, 7, 11, presently being simulcast in MPEG 4 on a CONUS beam from Ka band sat. 103© (D10), which will also serve as the sole western HD DNS feeds after 3/31/08. L.A. local channels 5 (KTLA), 9 (KCAL), and 13 (KCOP), that are not part of the DNS package, are on a Los Angeles Ka band spot beam from 103(s) (also D10).


Thanks, I got my channel numbers wrong. I had thought that the "new" HD locals (2,4,7 and 11) in MPEG-4 were on a spotbeam for the moment, 103(s) TP21, and would then be moved to a Conus beam by the end of March, but your answer is much more logical. Do you know if 5,9 and 13 are the ones on DirecTV10 103(s) TP21?

#9 OFFLINE   turbrodude

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 11:12 AM

So is the Spaceway 1 satellite at 102.8 used for anything in Los Angeles? I was assuming that the 103(s) designation was for Spaceway 1 while 103© was D10, but I see now that is the old school of thought. If I only had capability of receiving frequencies in the 19.7-19.9 Ghz range from the 103 slot, and only hooked up that signal to a HD receiver, what would I see? Where should I look to see what kind of signal strength I was getting on these frequencies/transponders?
http://www.lyngsat.com/space1.html

#10 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 11:52 AM

Thanks, I got my channel numbers wrong. I had thought that the "new" HD locals (2,4,7 and 11) in MPEG-4 were on a spotbeam for the moment, 103(s) TP21, and would then be moved to a Conus beam by the end of March, but your answer is much more logical. Do you know if 5,9 and 13 are the ones on DirecTV10 103(s) TP21?


Unless TP21 is assigned to D10 texasbrit, as noted by Lyngsat here http://www.lyngsat.c...ectvusa103.html which I assume is the satellite carrying the L.A. HD channels 5, 9, and 13 on a spot beam then I really cannot say for sure.

I'm assuming of course that the transponder numbering is based on the aggregate sum of transponders from both Spaceway 1 and D10 combined comprising 103(s) and ©. Since Lyngsat shows only sets of 18 transponders loaded on D10 and 6 for Spaceway 1, for a composite total of 24.

http://www.lyngsat.com/dtv10.html

http://www.lyngsat.com/space1.html

#11 OFFLINE   Supervolcano

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 01:04 PM

1) Unfortunately lyngsat is notorious for having outdated information, especially when it comes to their DirecTV satellites, AND ESPECIALLY right now since they've been shuffling stuff all over the place for the last few months. You can use lyngsat as a "guesstimate", but don't bank on it's info.

2) Yes, when they changed the (a) & (B) designations to © & (s) designations, that's when directv decided to combine Spaceway1 & D10 spotbeams into one (s) screen, to simplify things for both the end user and directv csr's. The same thing will happen when D11 goes online with Spaceway2. Unfortunately the "Transponder Numbers" aren't gonna mean anything to us anymore since they duplicate some numbers between the © & (s) screens.

3) Who cares which bird is broadcasting a local's spotbeam? Just peak 101, 110, 119, 103©, and soon 99© .... and your spotbeams will be right where they are supposed to be.
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#12 OFFLINE   turbrodude

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 01:21 PM

Let's just say I'm doing a sort of experiment with a different antenna that is good in the 19.7-19.9 ghz range (Spaceway 1 frequencies) and I want to see what DirecTV channels I can get with it. It might not work at all because the receiver won't see anything from 101, 110, 119, and 99. It might see weak signals from D10 down in the 18 Ghz range. You guys think this will work? Any tricks to try?

#13 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 02:52 PM

Hmm, now we know why happened that last electrical problem with D11 http://dbstalk.com/s...ead.php?t=92610 :D.
So, that 'different antenna'/LNBF was a "spare" part of it ? :P

#14 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 03:27 PM

Ok.. so let me shed some light on this, because there are several misconceptions in this thread. First lets go back in time to before D10 was launched. For more than a year there where two feeds of LA stations 2 KCBS, 4 KNBC, 7 KABC, 11 KTTV (FOX). One set of feeds was in the 80's and where MPEG-2 on 119 and where for DNS. The other set showed up in the low range (2,4,7,11) and where MPEG-4 feeds being delivered off of a Spaceway Sat. ( I believe they have always come from 103 location, but cannot confirm) Then about a year and a half ago, channel 5 KTLA (CW) was added to MPEG-4 locals from a spaceway for the market. The stations appearing in the lower numbers that coincide with the actual LA channel numbers have never been MPEG-2, and have always been MPEG-4 off of a Spaceway sat.

Then late last year, channels 9 (KCAL), 13 (KCOP) were added to MPEG-4 spots showing up on 103 s giving LA all of its locals in MPEG-4 on a spot beam. Before D10 launched, and continuing shortly after, there where at least 3, although I want to say 4 transponders in the 1 to 8 range that had very high signals at 103s. A while after D10 spots were turned on, several of those transponders lit up (15 through 24 are D10, assuming they never reassigned spaceway transponder numbers, which they have no reason to do) with high signals, and all but one of the Spaceways transponders went to 0. (Transponders 16, 19, 20, 21 are 100 for me from D10 103s) It was noted around here that Directv was moving some locals to D10 spots, and there has been speculation that this was done so they could reaim Spaceway spots to areas that D10 was now unable to hit. Either way all of LA locals on spot beams were moved to D10.

The new MPEG-4 HD DNS feeds from LA are not on a spot beam, and are not currently being remapped in LA. Technically, they are running three feeds of HD locals. One in MPEG-2 in the 80's which is going away on March 31 (not sure what sat they are coming from). MPEG-4 DNS feeds that are coming from D10 103c conus beams in the 390's, and then the full set of LA locals including all channels are being broadcast from 103 s on D10.

Here's how I know all this about the locals and MPEG-4 transmissions that are being broadcast today...

I can not receive any HD local feeds today except for the ones in the 80's without a bbc connected to my HR20's so we now that they are all MPEG-4 feeds.

I have had a weird signal issue since the day that I installed my Slimline dish. I cannot get transponder 17 on D10 103c to show a signal above the 20's. Everything else is great, and until I was missing channels, I had decided not to worry about it. Funny how things work out... All my locals come in perfectly in the 2-13 range, but channel 391 (cbs MPEG-4 dns) and 393 (nbc MPEG-4 dns) only get a severely broken signal, proving these DNS feeds are not remapped channels. (and they come from transponder 17 on 103c right now)

I do not know why Directv doesn't simply remap these dns feeds for our LA locals, but at this time they do not. I wonder if it has to do with them needing to be able to shut off DNS feeds or insert differnt ads than the locals, but I have never heard of that actually happening, so the way I see it, they are wisting bandwidth. With that said, I hope they continue to waste it until I can figure out why one transponder is not pulling in a good signal for me....

With all this said, as someone else already mentioned, as long as you get all your channels, I don't really care where the signals come from....:D

#15 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 05:41 PM

Your info is pretty well in line with what I thought was happening - three sets of signals, MPEG-2 from 119, MPEG-4 spotbeams from DirecTV10 but showing up on 103(s), and new MPEG-4 CONUS channels from DirecTV10 on 103©. If this is correct, I too am not sure why they would waste spotbeam bandwidth on DirecTV10 when the same channels are on CONUS on DirecTV10.

#16 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 07:09 PM

Ok.. so let me shed some light on this, because there are several misconceptions in this thread. First lets go back in time to before D10 was launched. For more than a year there where two feeds of LA stations 2 KCBS, 4 KNBC, 7 KABC, 11 KTTV (FOX). One set of feeds was in the 80's and where MPEG-2 on 119 and where for DNS. The other set showed up in the low range (2,4,7,11) and where MPEG-4 feeds being delivered off of a Spaceway Sat. ( I believe they have always come from 103 location, but cannot confirm) Then about a year and a half ago, channel 5 KTLA (CW) was added to MPEG-4 locals from a spaceway for the market. The stations appearing in the lower numbers that coincide with the actual LA channel numbers have never been MPEG-2, and have always been MPEG-4 off of a Spaceway sat.

Then late last year, channels 9 (KCAL), 13 (KCOP) were added to MPEG-4 spots showing up on 103 s giving LA all of its locals in MPEG-4 on a spot beam. Before D10 launched, and continuing shortly after, there where at least 3, although I want to say 4 transponders in the 1 to 8 range that had very high signals at 103s. A while after D10 spots were turned on, several of those transponders lit up (15 through 24 are D10, assuming they never reassigned spaceway transponder numbers, which they have no reason to do) with high signals, and all but one of the Spaceways transponders went to 0. (Transponders 16, 19, 20, 21 are 100 for me from D10 103s) It was noted around here that Directv was moving some locals to D10 spots, and there has been speculation that this was done so they could reaim Spaceway spots to areas that D10 was now unable to hit. Either way all of LA locals on spot beams were moved to D10.

The new MPEG-4 HD DNS feeds from LA are not on a spot beam, and are not currently being remapped in LA. Technically, they are running three feeds of HD locals. One in MPEG-2 in the 80's which is going away on March 31 (not sure what sat they are coming from). MPEG-4 DNS feeds that are coming from D10 103c conus beams in the 390's, and then the full set of LA locals including all channels are being broadcast from 103 s on D10.

Here's how I know all this about the locals and MPEG-4 transmissions that are being broadcast today...

I can not receive any HD local feeds today except for the ones in the 80's without a bbc connected to my HR20's so we now that they are all MPEG-4 feeds.

I have had a weird signal issue since the day that I installed my Slimline dish. I cannot get transponder 17 on D10 103c to show a signal above the 20's. Everything else is great, and until I was missing channels, I had decided not to worry about it. Funny how things work out... All my locals come in perfectly in the 2-13 range, but channel 391 (cbs MPEG-4 dns) and 393 (nbc MPEG-4 dns) only get a severely broken signal, proving these DNS feeds are not remapped channels. (and they come from transponder 17 on 103c right now)

I do not know why Directv doesn't simply remap these dns feeds for our LA locals, but at this time they do not. I wonder if it has to do with them needing to be able to shut off DNS feeds or insert differnt ads than the locals, but I have never heard of that actually happening, so the way I see it, they are wisting bandwidth. With that said, I hope they continue to waste it until I can figure out why one transponder is not pulling in a good signal for me....

With all this said, as someone else already mentioned, as long as you get all your channels, I don't really care where the signals come from....:D


OK inkahauts;

Your empirical data sounds convincing on this end. I was going on Lyngsat's information here at http://www.lyngsat.c...ectvusa103.html which shows only L.A. HD locals 5, 9, and 13 on a spot beam, which I knew to currently be 103(s) (D10). And locals 2, 4, 7, and 11 on a CONUS beam which is obviously 103 © (D10). But as one poster previously noted, Lyngsat's data is frequently out of date I guess. Though I agree that it is rather puzzling as to why D* would seemingly waste bandwidth this way instead of simply re-mapping the west DNS feeds on 103© in the 300s to channels 2, 4, 7, and 11 in the EPG.

#17 OFFLINE   BGreen965

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 09:44 AM

I'm sure they will remap the locals just like they remap the SD Big four from the 380's. Maybe they were waiting to work out all the kinks and make sure everyone's (Directv's and the end user's) equipment was working properly before they make the switch??
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#18 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 03:23 PM

I'm sure they will remap the locals just like they remap the SD Big four from the 380's. Maybe they were waiting to work out all the kinks and make sure everyone's (Directv's and the end user's) equipment was working properly before they make the switch??


Anyone else think that their next target after they finish moving all the current HD subs to MPEG-4 equipment will be anyone on 72.5 dish, and then all SD only DNS'ers?

#19 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 03:36 PM

Anyone else think that their next target after they finish moving all the current HD subs to MPEG-4 equipment will be anyone on 72.5 dish, and then all SD only DNS'ers?


72.5 will certainly be a priority. Any mpeg2 HD will be changed. Don't know about SD DNS.

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#20 OFFLINE   BGreen965

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 04:15 PM

NY HD-DNS would most likely be next. I don't think SD DNS is going anywhere (on the birds). There might now even be SD DNS in a year from now...
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