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Does E* have a working receiver???


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51 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   bonipie

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 04:06 PM

Hi,
I've posted before about my problems with constantly rebooting 622. We had 622 from June, 2007. Jan 5, 2008, it was replaced because of constant rebooting problem. And, again first part of February. And, first part of March. They sent us a new 722. It rebooted first day. Now, after a week, it is belly-up. We are not going to deal with CSR's again. Life is too short. We have a buddy at ceo@... who we will call in the morning.

I was looking at what receivers are available. Certainly, the 622 and 722 are out. We loved our DVR, but now, couldn't care less. What good are a lot of recorded programs if your receiver keeps dying?? We are looking at non-DVR receivers-give them some time to fix this known problem. Looking at the 222, I see lots of problems with locking up. We do want HD (so, MPEG4 necessary). Any ideas where to turn??

We have been trying to make sense of this problem. For the last 3 months, I have been spending 20% of my cell phone minutes talking to E*. We have been spending weeks without TV. When I first reported problem, there was hardly anyone reporting a problem. Now, there are a lot of people reporting the same problem, with multiple receivers. Same with the 222. Seems like everyone had good experiences for months or years, now nothing but repeated problems with many receivers. So, what could cause this? Seems like software type of thing, but software issues are not usually this ongoing, getting worse as time goes on. You begin to think there is a virus out there.
:D Boni

VIP722
Dish 1000

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#2 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 04:38 PM

So to recap.... you have had multiple 622s and a 722 and all have exhibited the same problem. From what I know here there is a few people going through multiple receiver issues while most users users have not. Not sure why this is the case..

Whenever I see an issue like this that has multiple receivers involved and actually different receivers having similar problems, I believe it is a case of being very unlucky and getting a number of lemons or possible external factors. In your case I see your are running totally on Solar power and I do recall replying to some of your posts.

You also turn on and off the 622/722 frequently which thought I don't see why it would make a difference it is not the normal operating procedure for the unit. 99% of the users keep them all the time.

Personally I think continuing swapping boxes is going to bring you to the same conclusion.. Not sure what the solution is, but you might consider given a UPS a shot and running it 24x7 for a while and see if the problems disappear.

I need to go back and re-read your posts, but that is my thoughts at the moment... There are a lot of 622/722s users that are very happy with there boxes and have had the boxes for the long time. The fact your 722 did not last long really makes me wonder that something in your environment or how you interact with the devices are a contributing factor.
<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>

#3 OFFLINE   Bayview

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 06:25 PM

I see that you are "100% solar powered". I have no idea what your power equipment is, but you might consider the possibility that the output of your DC/AC conversion equipment is producing "dirty" AC. Maybe there are some dropouts or waveform problems that the receiver can't deal with.

Consider adding some power conditioning in the form of a small UPS.

#4 OFFLINE   bonipie

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 06:26 PM

I sure agree with your points. Both of us are from engineering backgrounds, so we come to the same conclusions. We have literally lost sleep over this, trying to figure out what might be a cause in our case, and not others.

Interesting to me, it seems that there are more people lately with the same problems (some have contacted me privately). And, it seems that those people had receivers that worked for a long time, then had multiple receivers that didn't.

About the power setup and turning on and off, we recently had 'shore' power available to us, so have been using it, since the sun has been low on horizon and charging has been less. So, receiver has been powered by regular electrical hookups, and we have also plugged it directly into 110V pure sine wave inverter, which is a very good power source with nothing but the receiver plugged into it, with no power surges, glitches, or other electrical ghosts and goblins. Since we have had power hookup, we have not been turning receiver on and off. In all cases, receivers have continued to reboot. Also, since we have had the 722 (1 week), it has been very mild temperatures here, so temperature is not a problem.

When we talk to Dish, they never indicate that they think temperature, power source, number of events, or anything like this is a problem. They do recognize it as a problem. We are just like you-why us, and why numerous times. We really have a simple installation-1 receiver, 1 antenna, 1 tv. If it was just us, it would be different. There are several people posting to the forum with the same occurrance of problems. And, there are others personal mailing me. And, there are those (I'm sure the majority) that lurk hoping for an answer, and others that don't even know DBSTalk exists. So, it's not just us. And, the scenario is so much the same-good receiver for months/years, then they start dying in the same manner. We were automatically upgraded to a 722 because 3 of our 622's died. Now, I notice some of the posters are going the same route. I don't care what receiver I have, just so it works. We really have never been so frustrated.

****************

Whenever I see an issue like this that has multiple receivers involved and actually different receivers having similar problems, I believe it is a case of being very unlucky and getting a number of lemons or possible external factors. In your case I see your are running totally on Solar power and I do recall replying to some of your posts.

You also turn on and off the 622/722 frequently which thought I don't see why it would make a difference it is not the normal operating procedure for the unit. 99% of the users keep them all the time.

Personally I think continuing swapping boxes is going to bring you to the same conclusion.. Not sure what the solution is, but you might consider given a UPS a shot and running it 24x7 for a while and see if the problems disappear.
:D Boni

VIP722
Dish 1000

#5 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 07:08 PM

Well I am definitely not a hardware guy. Software is my bag.. So hopefully someone with more installation experience might have some suggesting but one thing you have done is change the receiver component and even changed the hardware type and the problem has not gone away. Has any of the other hardware been swapped out? the LNBF? Has the grounding been checked?

Glad you mentioned temperature... that is also a common cause of these type of problems... Is it in an open or closed cabinet. If you are in a enclosed cabinet without forced ventilation that might be the cause, but from your reply it sounds like you have ruled it out.

If others are having this same issue.. Please.. Please.. Reply with as much details of your set up..
How many box swaps you have done.
Were the boxes refurbished that you got?
How long has it been between box swaps?
When the boxes reboot are you performing and action or does it reboot on its own?
Is the WD timers high on your receivers?
What is your Timers events and Timer counts on your boxes?.
Do you have external drives connected?
Details about your installation? Receiver ->switch-> Dish? Receiver to Dish?
Any other details you think are important?

Ok... Lets try and gather as much information as possible in this thread and hopefully the dish E* team will see it and it might trigger something. The more info the better and any small detail that you might think not important.. Please include... Be surprised at what small detail might trigger something to an Engineer.
<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>

#6 OFFLINE   bonipie

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 07:41 PM

Ron,
Thanks for the effort. My information is in the text below.

:confused: Another question to ask: Have you, after several replaced receivers, had one that worked? Did you do anything to make it work, or was it just lucky to get a receiver that worked?

Well I am definitely not a hardware guy. Software is my bag.. So hopefully someone with more installation experience might have some suggesting but one thing you have done is change the receiver component and even changed the hardware type and the problem has not gone away. Has any of the other hardware been swapped out? the LNBF? Has the grounding been checked?

Glad you mentioned temperature... that is also a common cause of these type of problems... Is it in an open or closed cabinet. If you are in a enclosed cabinet without forced ventilation that might be the cause, but from your reply it sounds like you have ruled it out. It's a cabinet, but not enclosed. About 4 inches on top, chunk of wood below to elevate receiver. Average temp 111.

If others are having this same issue.. Please.. Please.. Reply with as much details of your set up..
How many box swaps you have done. 4 total receivers-622, had 6 months, Jan. 2008, L4.48 (failed shortly after L4.48 update).
622, Feb., L4.48 then L4.49. Lasted 1 month.
622, March, 2008, L4.49. Lasted 2 weeks or so.
722, March, 2008, L4.49. First reboot, 2 hours, finally died, 1 week.
Were the boxes refurbished that you got? All referb except 722, new.
How long has it been between box swaps?
When the boxes reboot are you performing and action or does it reboot on its own? Anything, anytime, watching, sleeping at 3 am, turned on, turned off.
Is the WD timers high on your receivers? Minimal
What is your Timers events and Timer counts on your boxes?. Minimal
Do you have external drives connected? No
Details about your installation? Receiver ->switch-> Dish? Receiver to Dish?
Dish, Receiver, tv. That's it. Used supplied coax and cables.
Any other details you think are important?

Ok... Lets try and gather as much information as possible in this thread and hopefully the dish E* team will see it and it might trigger something. The more info the better and any small detail that you might think not important.. Please include... Be surprised at what small detail might trigger something to an Engineer.


:D Boni

VIP722
Dish 1000

#7 OFFLINE   BNUMM

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:28 PM

I have installed 622's and know of at least 4 people that have had to have multiple replacements ( can't comment on the 722 as I have only installed 2). All 4 have had Dish DVR's and replaced them with 622s. The previous DVRs ( 5xx receivers ) never had problems. All 4 are fine now after multiple replacements.

#8 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:55 PM

BNUMM.. 4 out of how many installs? Were the replacements referbs or new boxes or a combination? Did you find anything in common? Similar install etc?
<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>

#9 OFFLINE   fredinva

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 05:40 AM

I've installed dozens of 622/722s.
They have been very stable. maybe two replacements

fred

#10 OFFLINE   BNUMM

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:19 AM

BNUMM.. 4 out of how many installs? Were the replacements referbs or new boxes or a combination? Did you find anything in common? Similar install etc?


Are you asking how many installs total or how many 622/722 installs? I am only guessing but I believe we have installed about 25 total of 622/722s. I do not know if the replacements were refurbished or new. The only thing I can think of that was common is that they were on a Dish 1000. All were grounded, all were existing DVR users ( with no previous problems ), no wall plates in the lines, all ground blocks were high frequency ground blocks, all had RG-6 (no in wall cable )from dish to receiver. All appear to be working fine now. I know that one person had 3 replacements and I believe the others had 2.

#11 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:30 AM

Yeah.. I was mainly interested in the 622/722 installs and trying to get a better feel for the issue.
<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>

#12 OFFLINE   Bill R

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 09:22 AM

I have been an Echostar customer for over 11 years and I have never HAD to have a receiver replaced. I have had my share of software problems (especially with the model 7xxx receivers) but I struggled through those problems. I do know a few people that have had almost continuous problems with replacement receivers but, they are very rare.

I am both a hardware (EE degree) and software (Computer Science degree) guy and a couple of local dealers (one sells DirecTV and the other one does DISH installs, he is a subcontractor) often ask for my help with really hard problems. On the ones that I have looked at over the years I found that problems like bonipie is having were due to some electrical problem. Some of those problems were, power spikes, ground loops, missing or improper grounds, "non-steady" power (in one case voltage was sagging to 90 volts when a well pump kicked in), and, in a very rare case one family had a problem where they had some signal "riding" their 60 Hz power (that turned out to be some power company problem) that caused their receiver to reboot (it was a DirecTV receiver).

I would advise bonipie to really look at the power going to his receiver. As Bayview suggested he may have "dirty AC". And, also as he said, I highly recommend a UPS and don't get one of those cheap ($39) ones.
Bill R

#13 OFFLINE   oljim

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 10:18 AM

I have had a 2700, 3 DP 7200/7100 a 921, 2 622s never had a single falure, installed all my dishes. have never had a installer at my home Never grounded a dish and every rec. has been on a backup power supply and have never called dish other than to turn on a new rec.

#14 OFFLINE   BNUMM

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 10:35 AM

I have run into 4 places that have had voltage problems. 2 were in rural areas. One was DirecTv and 1 was DishNetwork. They were both SD receivers. 3rd ( DishNetwork ) had a lightning strike that damaged the electrical system in part of the house. After the electric was repaired everything was fine. 4th ( DishNetwork ) had a heat tape wire fall on the frame of a mobile home. The wire was 120 volts and made the ground hot. When the wire was removed everything was fine. None of the previous incidents were DVRs.

Electric problems were not present with the bad 622s. I believe they were just bad receivers because eventually they all got a working receiver eventually.

#15 OFFLINE   bonipie

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 11:55 AM

So, what would a UPS do that our a/c power supply does not? We have tried all failed receivers on traditional house power, 2 different inverters, generator, different outlets, checked grounds, etc. Never had anything else fail on any of our power sources.
:D Boni

VIP722
Dish 1000

#16 OFFLINE   DustoMan

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 02:14 PM

Could it be possible that some kinda of power surge could be coming through your dish? Are you using a powered switch as part of your installation? I have a DP Plus 44 Switch on mine and there's a power brick I need to plug in down by my receiver to power it.
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#17 OFFLINE   bonipie

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 02:59 PM

HI,
Well, new 722 is on the way. But, in the meantime, our hard drive died. Talking to tech support, they are very familiar with rebooting problem. We talked quite a bit about people having multiple receivers exhibiting the same problem, as in our case, and he (or me, I can't really remember the whole conversation) felt that basically, once you get a rebooting receiver, you send it in, they can't really find any thing wrong with it (can't imagine how-all we have sent are totally dead), so referbish (whatever that means) it and send it back out. And, there are lots of these bad receivers recirculating. And, then, if you get enough of these referbs, finally one is going to work. And, again, I emphasize, they are very familiar with the problem and there is not one question about events, power surges, or temperature. We'll see how this one goes.
:D Boni

VIP722
Dish 1000

#18 OFFLINE   cwbuckley

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 03:07 PM

Sorry that you are having problems with your E* receivers. In the time that I was with E* I had very little in the way of problems with my HD receivers. I had the 622 and the non HD DVR receivers(forgot the number). The receivers is not which I switched to D*. In fact I like E* receivers a little bit better the D* receivers. Both are good.

Good luck getting some receivers that work.

#19 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 03:26 PM

HI,
Well, new 722 is on the way. But, in the meantime, our hard drive died. Talking to tech support, they are very familiar with rebooting problem. We talked quite a bit about people having multiple receivers exhibiting the same problem, as in our case, and he (or me, I can't really remember the whole conversation) felt that basically, once you get a rebooting receiver, you send it in, they can't really find any thing wrong with it (can't imagine how-all we have sent are totally dead), so referbish (whatever that means) it and send it back out. And, there are lots of these bad receivers recirculating. And, then, if you get enough of these referbs, finally one is going to work. And, again, I emphasize, they are very familiar with the problem and there is not one question about events, power surges, or temperature. We'll see how this one goes.


It is possible that what we are seeing is a production related issue or what is being discussed here is a combination of both production related issues combained with some installation issues (I am not talking about your specific issue but multiple receiver swaps in general). At this point I don't any conclusions can be drawn.

Possible doing the box shuffle might eventually get you there bonipie, but like I said I have my doubts and that is why the suggestion on double checking and minimizing the external variables.

As for not mentioning what we mention here. Well really depends who you talk to. Well from my experience... Tech Support has a different perspective than we do. Box swapping to them is common course in issue resolution while we tend to try and dig a bit deeper and draw from experiences posted here. Ofcourse they have more internal knowledge that they can leverage, but we also tend to a bit more geeky about it.

We have had people have reboot issues that have been traced down to a power issue, we have had reboot issues traced down to heat related problems, we have also had spontaneous reboots tied to timer configuration. Though they did not mention any of these they are root causes to spontaneous rebooting based on the reports posted here.

Bottom line... you are the closest to the problem and the best position to troubleshoot. All we can do is offer some suggestions. Lets see how the next box fairs and please post back the results. I do hope it stabilizes.
<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>

#20 OFFLINE   fmcomputer

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 06:06 PM

As a person that designs and builds custom computers, it is a known fact that the newer computers and dvr's require good clean power. Do yourself a favor and purchase a good ups system ( battery backup ). Do not plug it into plug strip. Make sure you plug it directly into the wall outlet. Also check posts for solvng heat problems.




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