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Status of Channels I Get?


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179 replies to this topic

#101 OFFLINE   mpoyner

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 11:57 AM

We have a commitment from our friends at DIRECTV to try to make the system as good as possible, but they have to know where the holes are.



BTW, I know that you're just reporting what they tell you, and so i'm not being argumentative with you. I guess I'm letting off steam, and also wishing that one of them would read our posts in here and actually take them to heart.

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#102 OFFLINE   gregjones

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 12:48 PM

Sure. But I dont want the PPV channels, shopping channels, game show channels, game channels, channels with shows from 30+ years ago and the rest of the stuff I dont want to clutter up my guide or have autorecorded from.

Unfortunately, Directv will make sure I have EVERY channel they've stuffed into a 'subscription' will show up, especially the ones that they might make money on. Which I'll never use.

Its a bit annoying to do a movie search for a category of movies and then have to page down through 15 pages of PPV movies, movies on the HD extra package that I dont get, and some premium channels I dont get, just to get to what I am subscribed to and want to look for?

I found the tivo method neither complicated or onerous. Whats the dilemma with autopopulating the list with the subscribed channels and letting me turn off the ones I dont want from the guide or autorecords?

Except for the part where that'd be what I wanted rather than directv?





Don't get me wrong, I hate the fact that it fails to work. I mitigate the problem by using a keyword search:

HD CCHAN 501 599
Category: Movies

HD NNOT PPV
Category: Movies

The first results in all HD movies on the premium channels (as long as it is correctly tagged as HD by the channel). The second pulls in all HD movies that aren't PPV. I wish there was a place in the programming data that would indicate if commercials were included. This would be close to the perfect search for me.

#103 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 12:49 PM

They do read, and they have taken it to heart. It's just, to a certain extent you are trying to change a tire on a car in motion, it's not as easy as all that.
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#104 OFFLINE   dbronstein

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 01:18 PM

Channels I Get is not a Guide issue. We can set up our own ALL Guide with the channels we really get.


Yes, it is a guide issue as well. There is no handy list available that tells you what exact channels you receive to make it easy to set up your own guide. You ultimately have to tune to the ones you aren't sure about to see if you get them. It's a very cumbersome process.

#105 OFFLINE   mogulman

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 01:19 PM

Until they agree to have a list of channels that we can check "yes" or "no" to, and then they do searches and autorecords from THAT list, this will NEVER work to the satisfaction of most of us. If they ever get the CIG list to work to the specs that they are apparently setting for themselves, it still WILL NOT work the way most of us want it to. Why can't they understand this? I know that I technically "get" the Green Channel in HD, but I don't ever want to record anything from it, and frankly I would like to "uncheck" it from the list of channels I get. That will never be allowed, based on how they want it to work.

The thing is, this is NOT hard, no matter what they keep telling you in response. They already have it set up to base all searches and autorecords from the CIG list, so why can't they instead base them on a favorites list, or user-created CIG list? The answer is that they CAN do this RIGHT NOW. Anyone who has ever coded anything knows this to be true. There is only one possible explanation for why they will not allow this and that is that they...


wait for it....


JUST DON'T CARE.


At least not enough that it's a priority for their programmers.

I think the engineers at DirecTV need to read this cautionary tale about the disconnect between interface/design and backend programming: http://gizmodo.com/5...designers-aside

EASE OF USE trumps COOL FEATURES every time. Why can't some engineers understand this basic concept of consumer design??



Maybe someone should take a poll (as if it hasn't probably been done 100x already)... To see if anyone really cares about CIG. It hasn't worked for so long as is pretty useless. Just allow recording and searches to be based on a favorite list (Channels I Want). :)

#106 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 01:32 PM

Maybe someone should take a poll (as if it hasn't probably been done 100x already)... To see if anyone really cares about CIG. It hasn't worked for so long as is pretty useless. Just allow recording and searches to be based on a favorite list (Channels I Want). :)


I sure would like to see a meaningful response to this proposal. It makes perfect sense, and they could dump the channels I get entirely (being it is difficult). At least adopt ©hannels (I) (W)ant as an alternate solution. There is absolutely no case against it.

CIG has too many pitfalls, and in the end, will NOT do what I want. Search my favorites or my own channel listing. Simple, straightforward, and customized to each individual's taste, and not determined by the programming package (you could choose to display returns on a search that include channels you don't get!), thus perhaps motivating you to get that channel. (this is kind of a reverse logic to "they are forcing these meaningless searches on us, so we will subscribe" train of thought)

Quite frankly, the entire CIG goal seems misguided to me. Is there really ANYONE who is interested in EVERY channel they get? Don't we all have some channels we get that we EXCLUDE from our favorites list? I certainly do.

After reading all this discussion about CIG and its "holes", I've come to the conclusion that we are doing nothing more than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. CIG is a flawed concept from the get go. There is a BIG difference between CIG and CIW....as the prior poster noted. He's exactly right. ©hannels (I) (W)ant is useful and precise, while CIG is both currently non-functional, and worse, likely to be useless, as far as I can see, but perhaps I'm myopic.

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#107 OFFLINE   raott

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 05:03 AM

I think the engineers at DirecTV need to read this cautionary tale about the disconnect between interface/design and backend programming: http://gizmodo.com/5...designers-aside

EASE OF USE trumps COOL FEATURES every time. Why can't some engineers understand this basic concept of consumer design??


I believe there was little to no design for the customer done when the HR series was introduced. Too many obvious poor decisions were made up front, no DLB, no skip-to-tick, the double push guide, 50 SL limit, CIG etc, etc.

None of those were bugs, they were just very poor design choices that a basic customer CTQ analysis would have picked up. While some of those have been fixed but we are still living with what I consider the most agregious issues.
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#108 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 10:49 PM

How about the new HD channels? Are they properly reporting as channels you get (or don't?)

Edit Settings -> Ch's I Get indicates I get these new channels (but I don't):
286 -- Planet Green HD
649 -- SportSouth HD
The rest of the new channels are reported correctly.

BTW, using numbers to jump to a channel in Ch's I Get doesn't always work:
286 jumps to 668
600 jumps to 610
622 jumps to 668
633 jumps to 668
649 jumps to 668
686 doesn't jump

Interestingly, 610 and 668 are the only two 6xx channels in my Custom lists; they're in both Custom 1 and Custom 2.
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
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#109 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 02:50 PM

We're currently testing out new modifiers for the search function that will allow you to limit it to a channel range. That should help. Please see our Cutting Edge forum for more details.

A very interesting post -- although it is pretty old, dating from 03-26-08. As a relative newbie (40 days now with the HR21) I didn't know that any DirecTV employees were posting to DBSTalk, nor did I think they would announce who they worked for. But I'm very glad that I was wrong on both counts. Pray tell, who else among DBSTalk's members works for D*?

About limiting searches to a channel range, I respectfully submit that that won't cut it, because of the recently added 50-character limit on Boolean searches. Instead, please consider implementing one of the many suggestions based on using a user-provided list of channels, such as Custom 1 or 2, to limit searches. As far as I'm concerned, it would be OK if a list of channels were to be applied globally, to all searches. Others might want more granularity.
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DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#110 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 02:57 PM

I do not work for DIRECTV. When I say "We're", I mean our members in the Cutting Edge forum. As far as DIRECTV employees posting here, I can't think of any off the top of my head who have come out and announced where they work. That being said, Mr. Syzygy, it may be that you work for DIRECTV.
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#111 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 04:16 PM

About limiting searches to a channel range, I respectfully submit that that won't cut it, because of the recently added 50-character limit on Boolean searches. Instead, please consider implementing one of the many suggestions based on using a user-provided list of channels, such as Custom 1 or 2, to limit searches. As far as I'm concerned, it would be OK if a list of channels were to be applied globally, to all searches. Others might want more granularity.

Don't knock it before you try it! It "cuts it" just fine ...

I have several ARSL using CCHAN to record programs on the premium channels and they work flawlessly. Ex:

TUDORS CCHAN 501 550 & HIGH-DEF
ENTOURAGE CCHAN 501 550 & HIGH-DEF
FLIGHT OF THE CONCHORDS CCHAN 501 550
WEEDS CCHAN 501 550 & HIGH-DEF
TRUE BLOOD CCHAN 501 550 & HIGH-DEF
Etc.

#112 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 09:01 AM

Yeah, Drew, they work flawlessly for you because you subscribe to all the premium channels. I have HBO & SHO (currently free for me) but not Starz! -- and I think there are a lot of subscribers like me. (Oops, I just noticed that none of your examples are for movies; all are for series which appear on only one contiguous group of channels, so the channel ranges could be much smaller -- or they could be omitted.)

BTW, I find it interesting that you included the non-HD channels FLIX, SUND and IFC but excluded HDNM (552).

I think this dialogue reinforces my request for allowing a user-provided list of channels, as so many have already requested.

I want to search for movies on HBO and SHO while excluding MAX (512..514++) and Starz! (518..533++). I'd need to say something like "CCHAN 501..511 537..545" but that's not possible.
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
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DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#113 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 09:03 AM

This is a discussion of Channels I Get issues, not autorecords. Thank you.
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
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#114 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 11:06 AM

Sorry Stuart. I was just trying to point out that even though CIG may not be fully resolved, there are workarounds in the DVR to bypass recordings being made on channels the user can't receive, and until CIG is finally and firmly resolved, we have options that I am grateful for. (Please delete this if it's inappropriate .)

#115 OFFLINE   Crow159

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 01:59 PM

This is a discussion of Channels I Get issues, not autorecords. Thank you.



Stuart, with all due respect (I really mean this:)), this is the problem right here. "Channels I get" IS an autorecord problem. It is a search problem also.

When I set up an autorecord, I want to automatically record from channels that I get. Not from the DNS channels, premium, porn, and other channels that I do not get. I've used the boolean logic. It's alright, but my parents would not understand it to search that way. When I've used it, it seems to take me about 20 minutes to find the exact logic to block out the channels I don't get or want and to narrow down the search to something usable.

For the average user, it would be so much easier to only show results from the channels you really receive.


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#116 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 02:41 PM

Stuart, with all due respect (I really mean this:)), this is the problem right here. "Channels I get" IS an autorecord problem. It is a search problem also.

When I set up an autorecord, I want to automatically record from channels that I get. Not from the DNS channels, premium, porn, and other channels that I do not get. I've used the boolean logic. It's alright, but my parents would not understand it to search that way. When I've used it, it seems to take me about 20 minutes to find the exact logic to block out the channels I don't get or want and to narrow down the search to something usable.

For the average user, it would be so much easier to only show results from the channels you really receive.


Crow,

It would be...but for whatever reason DirecTV believes it is in their best interest to market inappropriate and/or unwanted content to their customers and worse...their customer's children. Since we know they read this forum and this has been reported for years it is likely that it won't be changing.

#117 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 04:41 PM

...but for whatever reason DirecTV believes it is in their best interest to market inappropriate and/or unwanted content to their customers and worse...their customer's children. Since we know they read this forum and this has been reported for years it is likely that it won't be changing.

Well put! But maybe the landscape has changed now with the upcoming competition from TiVo -- or will TiVo let D* force them to be just as bad?
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DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#118 OFFLINE   jrcrum

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 07:30 PM

I read a lot of the posts in this thread but not all of them, so excuse me if someone has already said this, but I haven't seen anyone mention this. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to write one post on this topic.

I'm a professional software developer, and I just don't see how it could be that hard to fix CIG. The software system at D* obviously know what channels I get, because it enables those channels to work with my receivers. That is, for each channel that I get, it has to turn on that channel in my receiver. And I never seem to have problems receiving channels I'm not subscribing to, or not receiving channels that I subscribe to.

I kind of suspect that they don't really want to fix CIG. Because if they do, then we won't see all of the channels we are missing, and maybe they look at that as a perverted marketing tactic. Really perverted given all the crap we see in the guide from the porn channels.

If I were responsible for this system, I would expect to be fired if I couldn't fix a simple problem like CIG!:nono:

#119 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 12:27 AM

I read a lot of the posts in this thread but not all of them, so excuse me if someone has already said this, but I haven't seen anyone mention this. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to write one post on this topic.

I'm a professional software developer, and I just don't see how it could be that hard to fix CIG. The software system at D* obviously know what channels I get, because it enables those channels to work with my receivers. That is, for each channel that I get, it has to turn on that channel in my receiver. And I never seem to have problems receiving channels I'm not subscribing to, or not receiving channels that I subscribe to.

I kind of suspect that they don't really want to fix CIG. Because if they do, then we won't see all of the channels we are missing, and maybe they look at that as a perverted marketing tactic. Really perverted given all the crap we see in the guide from the porn channels.

If I were responsible for this system, I would expect to be fired if I couldn't fix a simple problem like CIG!:nono:



Not so simple when you consinder there are literally over 3000 channels, at a minumum they have to deal with, and how many packages, like 300? You have to remember, every channel has to be encoded properly for every package they have ever had... They obviously had a problem when they first installed it, and now they are fixing it, and they are getting closer.... they don't have many left... and you figure they have to do each one by hand...

#120 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 05:02 AM

It seems very little has changed since we started listing the CIG errors...

My Setup
• $50.99 Total Choice package
•• $5.99 DirecTV DVR Service
•• $0.00 HBO (6 months free)
•• $0.00 SHO (3 months free)
•• $0.00 Courtesy HD Channels
•• $9.99 HD Access

Channels D* Thinks I Don't Get -- but I Might (when an event occurs)
• 444-1 MLSHD
• 445 MLS
• 445-1 MLSHD
• 446 MLS
• 446-1 MLSHD
• 447 MLS
• 447-1 MLSHD
• 448 MLS
• 449 MLS
• 633 FSS FSN South Plus Alternate

Channels D* Thinks I Get -- but I Don't
• 230 DIY Do It Yourself Network
• 235 STYL Style
• 258 FMC Fox Movie Channel
• 271 Hint History International
• 272 LOGO Logo (MTV for GLBT)
• 274 OVTV Ovation TV
• 285 ID Investigation Discovery
• 286 PLGN Planet Green (Discovery)
• 287 MILT Military Channel
• 295 SPRT PBS Kids Sprout
• 298 BOOM Boomerang
• 302 NKTN Nicktoons
• 326 GAC Great American Country
• 330 BETJ BET Jazz
• 332 PLDAHD Palladia
• 337 VH1C VH1 Classic
• 433 FSTV Foot's Cool
• 480 DTV
• 481 DTV
• 482 DTV
• 483 DTV
• 488 DTV
• 490 DTV
• 491 DTV
• 492 DTV
• 493 DTV
• 494 DTV
• 500 DTV
• 586 PPV Adult PPV
• 587 PPV Para Todos PPV Movies
• 589 PPV Adult PPV
• 591 PBTV
• 595 REAL
• 596 JUCY
• 597 FRSH
• 598 SEXX
• 599 HUST Hustler TV / Here *
• 613 CBSCHD CBS College Sports HD
• 616 MTN Mountain Network
• 649 SSHD SportSouth HD
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package




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