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Dish HD signal qualty issues


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19 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   grcooperjr

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 11:49 AM

Howdy Folks....

Been lurking for 4 months or so and was referred here by a few folks in Tivo Community forum.

I've been searching the forum here for the answers but I have not found any sollutions.

So....To start I'll give you a bit of back ground on my environment.

I replace what I had from DTV:

4 - hr10-250 DVR's
3 - hdvr2 DVR's

with the following from Dish:

3 - 722 DVR's
1 - 211

I have one other 722 in the wings waiting to go online as soon as I get the time to add it to the media rack.


The reason for the change isn't important, but needless to say DTV made me a bit upset so I voted with my wallet and made a change to Dish.

Anyway I thought I had the ammunition to make the change but I'm finding that the signal quality on 129 is horrible. Dish installed 2 dishes, one dual LNB version for 110 & 119 and a single one for 129.
On DTV I solved my signal issues & rain fade using a Gain master dish, but there does not appear to be a similar solution for dish. I tried a 1000.2 and that was worse than the 2 that was originally installed.

Here the signal levels on a good clear day:

Dish 500 (110 & 119) 70 to 85 on most all transponders
Dish 300 (129) 20 to 25 on most transponders with a few below 10

1000.2 (110) 70 to 75 (119) 70 to 80 (129) 15 to 25

The above levels are on a good day. Today it’s raining. The weather service says the clouds are toping at around 15k feet. (avg rainy day in the NW)

Most of my HD content on 129 is just about unusable. All of my SD content is working fine. It's the pit to pay for content that can't be recived.

So, now that you all have a bit of back ground. What’s the best way to proceed with out looking like a tracking station for NASA. I called dish and discussed it a bit with them and they eluded that that is the way it is with dish and there are no all in one options nor anything available to improve 129’s reception on what I have.

I snooped the web a bit and did not find anything like the Gain master that would work for dish.

Any Ideas.. (besides of going back to DTV):nono:


Thanks in advance

Ray Cooper
Portland OR

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#2 OFFLINE   BNUMM

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 12:30 PM

Howdy Folks....

Been lurking for 4 months or so and was referred here by a few folks in Tivo Community forum.

I've been searching the forum here for the answers but I have not found any sollutions.

So....To start I'll give you a bit of back ground on my environment.

I replace what I had from DTV:

4 - hr10-250 DVR's
3 - hdvr2 DVR's

with the following from Dish:

3 - 722 DVR's
1 - 211

I have one other 722 in the wings waiting to go online as soon as I get the time to add it to the media rack.


The reason for the change isn't important, but needless to say DTV made me a bit upset so I voted with my wallet and made a change to Dish.

Anyway I thought I had the ammunition to make the change but I'm finding that the signal quality on 129 is horrible. Dish installed 2 dishes, one dual LNB version for 110 & 119 and a single one for 129.
On DTV I solved my signal issues & rain fade using a Gain master dish, but there does not appear to be a similar solution for dish. I tried a 1000.2 and that was worse than the 2 that was originally installed.

Here the signal levels on a good clear day:

Dish 500 (110 & 119) 70 to 85 on most all transponders
Dish 300 (129) 20 to 25 on most transponders with a few below 10

1000.2 (110) 70 to 75 (119) 70 to 80 (129) 15 to 25

The above levels are on a good day. Today it’s raining. The weather service says the clouds are toping at around 15k feet. (avg rainy day in the NW)

Most of my HD content on 129 is just about unusable. All of my SD content is working fine. It's the pit to pay for content that can't be recived.

So, now that you all have a bit of back ground. What’s the best way to proceed with out looking like a tracking station for NASA. I called dish and discussed it a bit with them and they eluded that that is the way it is with dish and there are no all in one options nor anything available to improve 129’s reception on what I have.

I snooped the web a bit and did not find anything like the Gain master that would work for dish.

Any Ideas.. (besides of going back to DTV):nono:


Thanks in advance

Ray Cooper
Portland OR


Try a Dish 500 on the 129. It will be easier if you get an I Adapter ( plastic thing for 1 dual lnb ). Part of the problem is the 129 satellite. If you do use a Dish 500 set the skew ( or tilt ) at 90 and set the elevation the same as the dish 300 is set at.

#3 OFFLINE   concord704

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 12:51 PM

I snooped the web a bit and did not find anything like the Gain master that would work for dish.


Try a 33" to 39" FTA dish (note that there are 4ft & 6ft ones too), like channel master, fortec, geosatpro, glorystar, winegard, etc and mount your lnb for 129 on it.... Check out fleabay or someone close to you that sells FTA equipment.

#4 OFFLINE   grcooperjr

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 01:59 PM

Try a 33" to 39" FTA dish (note that there are 4ft & 6ft ones too), like channel master, fortec, geosatpro, glorystar, winegard, etc and mount your lnb for 129 on it.... Check out fleabay or someone close to you that sells FTA equipment.


Try a Dish 500 on the 129. It will be easier if you get an I Adapter ( plastic thing for 1 dual lnb ). Part of the problem is the 129 satellite. If you do use a Dish 500 set the skew ( or tilt ) at 90 and set the elevation the same as the dish 300 is set at..



Thanks to both of ya for the info....

The Dish 500 dish I have is a bit smaller than the what I was told a Dish 300 dish. I'd say the 300 dish is 22 to 24 inches in dia and the 500 is 20. I do have another Dish 500 dish so I can give it a try...

While we are on the sbj of different dishes.... I have a 12 ft prime focus c/ku dish. Has any one seen a multi lnb mount to replace the old feed horn. I saw one on a casino in Lake Tahoe a few years back. They had what appeared to be 7 or 8 lnb's mounted. Now that would be cool to get rid of all of the dishes and just use the one big one. That would surly get rid of the low signal levels....

#5 OFFLINE   BNUMM

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 03:24 PM

A dish 300 should be smaller because it only needed to get 1 sat.. You can tell by looking to see if it has a skew (or tilt) adjustment on the back. If it does then it is a dish 500.

#6 OFFLINE   grcooperjr

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 03:53 PM

A dish 300 should be smaller because it only needed to get 1 sat.. You can tell by looking to see if it has a skew (or tilt) adjustment on the back. If it does then it is a dish 500.

What I was told was a Dish 300 dish is a good 3 to 4 inches larger than the one that is labled dish 500. It also does not have a skew plate like the 500 does....

It wont let me post this picture, but if you want to se em, its at the address below

www buyastrostuff com/ftp/Rays/tv/dish.JPG

Ray Cooper
Portland OR

#7 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 03:55 PM

Each of the Dish reflectors is designed to give similar signal strength to the lnb. The Dish 500 MUST be larger than the Dish 300 because it is slightly defocused in the horizonal plane to hit two lnbs rather than the one lnb of the Dish 300. Similarly the Dish 1000 must be even larger because it is defocused more than the Dish 500 in the horizonal plane because it must service three lnbs.

Putting one lnb on a Dish 1000 will not get you any more signal than one lnb on a Dish 300 because of the defocusing issue. If you want more signal strength you must get a larger single lnb dish, such as a 24 in. or 30 in. parabolic.
Tuners: Hopper 2000; Hopper w/Sling; 3 Joeys; Samsung SIR-T351; Accurian 6000;2 X HD TiVo; 2 X TiVo Series 2 Stand alone; Panasonic Showstopper 2000
Dish 1000.2 @ 110, 119, 129; dish 500 @ 61.5
Antennas - CM4228; RS U75-R; coathanger; Funke PSP.1922 (stillin the box); paperclip
Displays: Sony VPH D50Q with HD Fury HDMI input; Hitachi 57F59; Sony Bravia LCD;Sanyo 32" LCD; Panasonic 42" plasma
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#8 OFFLINE   CABill

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 04:18 PM

What I was told was a Dish 300 dish is a good 3 to 4 inches larger than the one that is labled dish 500. It also does not have a skew plate like the 500 does....

We can't know who told you that, but it isn't correct. An installer in the PNW would likely be installing a single dish that is larger than a 500 to get 129, but it would be a 24" dish and certainly not a dish 300.
http://www.prosatell...ishPRO-Dual.htm
DISH 300 (18-Inch / 46 CM)

A 300 is 18" across and 20.5" high.
A 500 is 20.5" across and 22" high.
They aren't really "round". You WANT one that has more surface area, but it isn't correct to call it a 300.

#9 OFFLINE   grcooperjr

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 04:42 PM

Each of the Dish reflectors is designed to give similar signal strength to the lnb. The Dish 500 MUST be larger than the Dish 300 because it is slightly defocused in the horizonal plane to hit two lnbs rather than the one lnb of the Dish 300. Similarly the Dish 1000 must be even larger because it is defocused more than the Dish 500 in the horizonal plane because it must service three lnbs.

Putting one lnb on a Dish 1000 will not get you any more signal than one lnb on a Dish 300 because of the defocusing issue. If you want more signal strength you must get a larger single lnb dish, such as a 24 in. or 30 in. parabolic.


Hi Jim

I agree... If I was doing DTV again I'd use my gainmaster. At 35 or so inches the gain increase is over 50% compared to the stock phase III, but unfortunately the dish lnb's want fit as they are made. And it appears that no one makes an adapter .

Ray Cooper
Portland, OR

#10 OFFLINE   grcooperjr

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 04:52 PM

A 300 is 18" across and 20.5" high.
A 500 is 20.5" across and 22" high.
They aren't really "round". You WANT one that has more surface area, but it isn't correct to call it a 300.


Well... What can I say...its obvious that what I was told was a Dish 300 dish by their installer is not a Dish 300, because the reflector is larger than the one marked Dish 500. As I stated eariler the reflector is a good 3 to 4 inches larger.

Anyway.... The issue still is that this dish does not have the gain for 129 needed in my area. It's got to be larger than this one (24") or they need to replace the bird, maybe both:)

#11 OFFLINE   grcooperjr

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 04:54 PM

Now that my post count is up to 5, maybe it will let me post the pic

Here it is... I went out and mesured it... The dish in the rear is 23.75 inches wide. The one in the frt(Dish 500) is right at 20 inches

Posted Image

#12 OFFLINE   BNUMM

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 05:17 PM

The dish at the right is not a Dish 300. It is a 24 inch dish that they sometimes use for commercial setups (they use 2 dishes, one for 110 and one for 119 ). A Dish 300 usually says 300 on it. From the picture it looks like the front dish could be partially blocking the rear dish.

#13 OFFLINE   CABill

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 05:41 PM

There are quite a few posts from people in the Pacific NW whose problems w/ 129 were addressed when they switched to the 24" dish. My receiver still shows the older (higher range) signal strengths and central CA doesn't have the same problems as OR and WA, but I'd think you could get better strength numbers from the 24" you have. You didn't say WHEN DISH did the install, but it should have a 90 day period on the install to get someone back to move or re-peak the 24" dish. Are there trees that might be a partial block (or the other dish as mentioned)?

http://www.dbstalk.c...hp/t-58692.html - he took the plastic off the LNB and crammed it onto a 35". Note the signal strengths in those old threads will show numbers lots higher than what receivers show now.

When they were using 18" 300s in the NW, people were pretty vocal about the 129 issue, but the 24" made most a lot happier.

#14 OFFLINE   grcooperjr

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 06:22 PM

There are quite a few posts from people in the Pacific NW whose problems w/ 129 were addressed when they switched to the 24" dish. My receiver still shows the older (higher range) signal strengths and central CA doesn't have the same problems as OR and WA, but I'd think you could get better strength numbers from the 24" you have. You didn't say WHEN DISH did the install, but it should have a 90 day period on the install to get someone back to move or re-peak the 24" dish. Are there trees that might be a partial block (or the other dish as mentioned)?

http://www.dbstalk.c...hp/t-58692.html - he took the plastic off the LNB and crammed it onto a 35". Note the signal strengths in those old threads will show numbers lots higher than what receivers show now.

When they were using 18" 300s in the NW, people were pretty vocal about the 129 issue, but the 24" made most a lot happier.


Hi Again

It got installed over the Christmas break. The installer has been here 3 times since. The last time they replaced all of the cables from the dishes to the multi switches. Within a week it really went to H.E. double toothpicks. Most of what they did I ended up redoing and re-peaking. The biggest problem I had was wet outs on the new cables they installed. So I replaced all that they did with some good Fcon connectors and a touch of dielectric lube. Fixed that issue at least but I still have the 129 fade.

Dish and their installers have pretty much given up saying it's as good as it is going to get until they get a new bird up. They have no other dish options avialable to them. I have never seen rain fade / signal quality issues as bad as this on the DTV side. Before I changed over, I assumed that for the most part they were on par with each other. I guess I was wrong.

So I guess in the short term the only way I can get good signal quality on 129 is to get a 30 inch afocal or larger for the 129...

Ray Cooper
Portland, OR

#15 OFFLINE   Lostinspace

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 06:54 PM

Are those dishes mounted on a fence? If so perhaps you have issues with keeping the best alignment between wind, ground shifting, and expansion/contraction of the wood.

Here in southern Oregon we have to use three dishes (our locals are on 148) all of which are marked as Dish 500. The 129 satellite shows a signal strength in the low 40's with some clouds and overcast. I've only experienced signal loss a couple of times since the HD upgrade last October.

#16 OFFLINE   grcooperjr

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 10:04 PM

Being we are on the subject of different dishes....

anybody use one of these?
http://www.wavefrontier.us/
Looks interesting

Ray Cooper
Portland OR

#17 OFFLINE   FitzAusTex

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 07:58 AM

Have you tried pointing at 61.5 instead of 129? It's supposedly more stable than 129, and since you have a separate dish, i'd at least give it a shot. it may be worse than 129, but maybe not...

#18 OFFLINE   concord704

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 08:18 AM

61.5 is most likely too low from OR to get, unless he lives on the east side of a mountain...

#19 OFFLINE   grcooperjr

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 08:52 AM

Have you tried pointing at 61.5 instead of 129? It's supposedly more stable than 129, and since you have a separate dish, i'd at least give it a shot. it may be worse than 129, but maybe not...


Been there tried that, but it is way to low. Dish's CS staff made that suggestion also, but it works out to be less than 10 to 15 degs off the horizon which puts it square in the middle of the mountain/hill to the east of me.

So I guess my choices are limited to get a bigger dish, Try to integrate it to my 12 ft c/ku dish, or wait for them to replace 129.


Ray Cooper
Portland, OR

#20 OFFLINE   grcooperjr

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 04:12 PM

Hi Again folks

I had a bit of time and the sun came out so I recorded the following signal values offof one of my 722's after peeking the dish.(Numbers the same before and after peeking)

Sat 129
Tp sig lv
2- 43
4- 49
5- 48
6- 31
8- 46
9- 51
10- 52
11- 43
12- 50
16- 48
17- 50
18- 39
19- 57
21- 45
22- 41
23- 47
27- 48
30- 52
31- 62
32- 45


When it gets cloudy the numbers go down alot. Most of the time i'll loose Tp 6 all together....

cool

Ray Cooper
Portland Or




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