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Problem: Duplicate Local Channel Listings


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21 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   AKDishuser

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 12:37 PM

Anyone else ever had this problem?

I've been a Dish subscriber for three years. My Channel Guide (ALL Sub) lists my locals TWICE: once with the local channel number (e.g. NBC affiliate KTUU Channel 2 in Anchorage) and once with a 7000-series number assigned by Dish (e.g. KTUU is 7032). This channel lineup has been there since I started subscribing.

In the past it wasn't a huge problem but it's increasingly confusing when I try to manage timers and schedules using the new name-based recording software. E.g. a timer set to record "The Office" at 8 PM Thursday will only show up on ONE of the NBC channel listings. If I'm looking at the other listing in the channel guide, it appears I have no timer set. I often duplicate timers by mistake and get into trouble with conflicts. Also, when I look at the future recordings using the "schedule" menu, I see all the local channel offereings listed twice. Same thing if I want to browse for movies.

I've called Dish Tech support about it but their only "helpful" advice was to try locking one set of the local channels. Did that and ended up losing all the timers for the local channels -- the system told me it couldn't record locked channels, even though I carefully locked only the 7000 series listings, leaving channels 2-13 unlocked, and set all the timers for these unlocked channels.:nono2:

The bozos at Dish want me to get a new receiver (as if this could possibly be a hardware problem) and to do a hard reset (as if I haven't done that numerous times over the past three years -- channel lineup is totally unaffected). This is obviously a software/setup glitch but their only advice made me waste a hour or so over the weekend locking channels, then having to unlock them and reset a bunch of timers.

So, any advice from others who have any theories whatsoever would be welcomed. Also, if you're a Dish techie reading this, what do you think?:confused:

(I'm not even going to get into the multitude of complaints I could make about missing recordings, disappearing timers, etc. I've experienced with the wonderful name-based recording software.)

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#2 OFFLINE   garys

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 12:42 PM

There should be a way to shut off the map down feature on your receiver, since you didn't post what you have, not sure how you would do that. Or, you can use the channel locks under the Lock feature and hide them once you lock your system. the hidden channels will not show in an receiver function unless you unlock your receiver.

#3 OFFLINE   AKDishuser

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 12:48 PM

There should be a way to shut off the map down feature on your receiver, since you didn't post what you have, not sure how you would do that. Or, you can use the channel locks under the Lock feature and hide them once you lock your system. the hidden channels will not show in an receiver function unless you unlock your receiver.


I have a 510. Users can't change the channels on the "All Sub" lineup. If you read my post, you'd see that locking the duplicate channels interferes with recording anything off the unlocked duplicates.

I know I could create a favorites list without the duplicates, but that wouldn't change the timer confusion or dublicate listings that show under schedule, movie browse, etc.

#4 OFFLINE   dennispap

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 03:29 PM

Anyone else ever had this problem?

I've been a Dish subscriber for three years. My Channel Guide (ALL Sub) lists my locals TWICE: once with the local channel number (e.g. NBC affiliate KTUU Channel 2 in Anchorage) and once with a 7000-series number assigned by Dish (e.g. KTUU is 7032). This channel lineup has been there since I started subscribing.

In the past it wasn't a huge problem but it's increasingly confusing when I try to manage timers and schedules using the new name-based recording software. E.g. a timer set to record "The Office" at 8 PM Thursday will only show up on ONE of the NBC channel listings. If I'm looking at the other listing in the channel guide, it appears I have no timer set. I often duplicate timers by mistake and get into trouble with conflicts. Also, when I look at the future recordings using the "schedule" menu, I see all the local channel offereings listed twice. Same thing if I want to browse for movies.

I've called Dish Tech support about it but their only "helpful" advice was to try locking one set of the local channels. Did that and ended up losing all the timers for the local channels -- the system told me it couldn't record locked channels, even though I carefully locked only the 7000 series listings, leaving channels 2-13 unlocked, and set all the timers for these unlocked channels.:nono2:

The bozos at Dish want me to get a new receiver (as if this could possibly be a hardware problem) and to do a hard reset (as if I haven't done that numerous times over the past three years -- channel lineup is totally unaffected). This is obviously a software/setup glitch but their only advice made me waste a hour or so over the weekend locking channels, then having to unlock them and reset a bunch of timers.

So, any advice from others who have any theories whatsoever would be welcomed. Also, if you're a Dish techie reading this, what do you think?:confused:

(I'm not even going to get into the multitude of complaints I could make about missing recordings, disappearing timers, etc. I've experienced with the wonderful name-based recording software.)


How are you setting the timers? I get 2 different cities ota locals, plus my locals from dish. My locals are also like yours, the real # say 33, plus they are in the 7000's. on the guide.
Everytime i set a recording, i go to say channel 33 in the guide, go to thursday, pick the office, pick dvr, pick weekly or new episodes, and every week the office records on channel 33. It has never recorded on the 7000 channel or any of the other nbc channels..
Try it like that and you shouldnt have a problem. When i hit menu, then hit 7 to check my timers, it is always in there. I do this for a few different shows on different networks, and it always records on my hd channel, that i pick.
Hope this helps

#5 OFFLINE   garys

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 04:10 PM

I have a 510. Users can't change the channels on the "All Sub" lineup. If you read my post, you'd see that locking the duplicate channels interferes with recording anything off the unlocked duplicates.

I know I could create a favorites list without the duplicates, but that wouldn't change the timer confusion or dublicate listings that show under schedule, movie browse, etc.


Sorry, it's been a while since I used a single tuner receiver. I think what you may have to do it to change the options to record 0 minutes before and 0 minutes after. They may not be resetting themselves with programs starting when other program in just ending.

#6 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 04:19 PM

In the past it wasn't a huge problem but it's increasingly confusing when I try to manage timers and schedules using the new name-based recording software. E.g. a timer set to record "The Office" at 8 PM Thursday will only show up on ONE of the NBC channel listings.

You should use a conventional timer to record weekly shows. This will allow you to specify which channel gets recorded (assuming that it matters in any meaningful way).

Setting favorites doesn't extend beyond guide viewing. It should not impact what channels get recorded.

#7 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 05:18 PM

If your model has "Dish Pass" then the duplicates get deleted (you still see them in the to-do list, but with a red line through the duplicate).

I'm new to Dish Pass, having just got a 942 as a replacement for a 921 (finally).
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#8 OFFLINE   cj9788

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 05:18 PM

The easiest solution is to lock and hide the local channel numbers ie: 2,8,12 ect. You can do this by selecting menu then locks then channel locks. You then select the local channels you do not want to show up in the all channel guide. Then select hide locked. You must then lock your system. This will remove all hidden channels from your guide.

If you do this make sure the timers are not set on the channel you locked. Also on 5xx models you must lock the mapped down local channel numbers. If you lock the locals in the 7000-9000 range then the local channel info will not show up.

Why the E* techs do not know that you have to lock the low numbers is beyond me. I have had mine locked as posted with no problems.

Good luck!

#9 OFFLINE   AKDishuser

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 07:01 PM

Thanks cj9788. I will try this tonight. It's the opposite of what I tried yesterday. No, Dish's TS folks didn't tell me which duplicate to lock out so I chose to keep the OTA (low) numbers because they're easier to ID for me than some random 7000 number. I guess I may have to reset a bunch of timers though since some are set on the low series and some on the 7000.

I note that the lockout may end up crashing anything I try to record on a local channel using DishPass, just as the system crashed yesterday when I tried to edit timers that included locked channels. Bummer.


Why in heck can't Dish get rid of one or the other duplicates from the channel lineup to begin with? What function does it serve to have the locals listed twice? It messes up DishPass, it uses up space through duplication in the 500 returns you get when browsing movies, and makes you scroll more to get past all the crossed out duplicates in the timer schedule listings. I sure wouldn't design a system that did this for no reason!

I see the hand of the Department of Redundancy Department in this . . . :nono:

#10 OFFLINE   puckwithahalo

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 07:21 PM

Why in heck can't Dish get rid of one or the other duplicates from the channel lineup to begin with? What function does it serve to have the locals listed twice?


The purpose is this. Say you have channel 7 in your local channels. There are probably 20 channel 7's (who knows, maybe more) throughout all the locals accross the country. So, we have to broadcast each local channel on its own number (in the 6000 - 9000 range). Your receiver knows which zipcode its in (or at least suppossed to be in), and also knows which local package you subscribe to. So it then knows that channel 6xxx is suppossed to be channel 7 for your local package and sticks it there. Originally the boxes didn't do this and the channels just showed up in the 6000 - 9000 range.

#11 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 07:46 PM

The purpose is this. Say you have channel 7 in your local channels. There are probably 20 channel 7's (who knows, maybe more) throughout all the locals accross the country.

There are closer to seventy full power analog stations are operating on channel seven in the US.

So, we have to broadcast each local channel on its own number (in the 6000 - 9000 range). Your receiver knows which zipcode its in (or at least suppossed to be in), and also knows which local package you subscribe to. So it then knows that channel 6xxx is suppossed to be channel 7 for your local package and sticks it there. Originally the boxes didn't do this and the channels just showed up in the 6000 - 9000 range.

Not quite how mapping works ... each channel in the guide has flags in the service descriptor. One of the flags says what market the station is in (if it is a local station). Another says what channel is used as a map down. There is also a flag for matching OTA digital locals to EPG entries.

IF you are authorized to view channels from a particular market you will see the high numbered channels. If the market flag for those channels match a market flag in your receiver you get mapdowns. The zip code is not used in this matching.

But that really isn't AKDishuser's question ... the WHY is to make the channels easier to find. People don't like to have to remember to tune to some odd "channel 8490" for their locals. It's much easier to remember "channel 7" ... and in this case (for Chicago DMA subscribers) 8490 is mapped down to 007-00 to make it easier to find.

Add in (in Chicago) channel 6312 HD (which can also be mapped down to channel 007-00) and any OTA reception of WLS and there can be a lot of 007-xx channels.

#12 OFFLINE   puckwithahalo

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 08:32 PM

Not quite how mapping works ... each channel in the guide has flags in the service descriptor. One of the flags says what market the station is in (if it is a local station). Another says what channel is used as a map down. There is also a flag for matching OTA digital locals to EPG entries.

IF you are authorized to view channels from a particular market you will see the high numbered channels. If the market flag for those channels match a market flag in your receiver you get mapdowns. The zip code is not used in this matching.


well, i was trying to be simplistic about it, but yes :-p although, the receiver's market is determined by zipcode in our system (at least, that's what i've always been told)

#13 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 09:36 PM

In your system? Zips are used to tell you which market that the customer is in and flag the account by market.
But on the satellite it is all markets. The zip code isn't what gets sent to the receivers. :)

The customer account's market is determined by the zipcode ... the receiver knows the market.

#14 OFFLINE   puckwithahalo

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 09:00 PM

ah.... :) i was told the box actually knew the zipcode, but what you say makes more sense from a programming standpoint, and you haven't steered me wrong with info before. kudos to learning something new.

#15 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 09:19 PM

The zip is probably in the box somewhere ... but it isn't in the SDT (service description table) where all the mapping and channel information is found.

#16 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 10:04 PM

You can program the receiver with your zip code, sometimes useful in the point dish screen to get approximate directions on how to locate the satellites... but that entry doesn't affect the channels you get.

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#17 OFFLINE   scoobyxj

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 10:10 PM

James I have a question in the same regards. In the Cleavland, OH DMA the HD locals are done the same way, but where you have say 007-00, then HD 007-00 plus the four digit channel #, and the HD four digit channel # the HD 007-00 won't be actually HD You have to tune to the HD four digit channel to actually get the HD local. Is this just a glitch with this market, or is all the new HD locals that are being brought on line the same.

#18 OFFLINE   JohnH

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 10:10 PM

The zipcode that dish sends down would be used in sports blackout formulas.

#19 OFFLINE   TulsaOK

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 10:14 PM

The zip is probably in the box somewhere ... but it isn't in the SDT (service description table) where all the mapping and channel information is found.


The zip code is in the Counters, about three pages down. I've never entered a zip code into the receiver, but mine is correct.
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#20 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 10:50 PM

James I have a question in the same regards. In the Cleavland, OH DMA the HD locals are done the same way, but where you have say 007-00, then HD 007-00 plus the four digit channel #, and the HD four digit channel # the HD 007-00 won't be actually HD You have to tune to the HD four digit channel to actually get the HD local. Is this just a glitch with this market, or is all the new HD locals that are being brought on line the same.

Not a glitch ... that's normal! :)

Under "local channels" you can choose if SD or HD satellite channels are "mapped down" (or both). Or you can turn off this map down and just use the four digit channels for via satellite TV.

The zip code is in the Counters, about three pages down. I've never entered a zip code into the receiver, but mine is correct.

That was added a little while back ... probably for blackouts. It is good (for DISH) that you can't change that. Wouldn't want people "moving" by changing their machine's zip to get restricted content. I believe it is also used for the weather channel interactive feature.
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