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Advanced SEARCH/AUTORECORD Help & Discussion


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#51 OFFLINE   JMCecil

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 09:42 AM

AALL New England Patriots & Show Type, Events solves that potential issue, though.

Actually, this wouldn't always work either. I've seen the listing show "Patriots", "NE Patriots", "NWE Patriots", "Pats" in addition to your "New England Patriots". Nothing like consistency to make these searches managable.
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#52 OFFLINE   bonscott87

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 09:46 AM

And all this just points out that no matter how good the search engine is, even the Tivo wishlist, it's only as good as the guide data. My Red Wings search never worked right until FSN Detroit added "live" to their guide data and remained consistent at it. Hopefully that will continue this year.

#53 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 11:09 AM

Actually, this wouldn't always work either. I've seen the listing show "Patriots", "NE Patriots", "NWE Patriots", "Pats" in addition to your "New England Patriots". Nothing like consistency to make these searches managable.

Then how about AANY patriots pats & Show Type, Events? Because of the "events" qualifier, the number of "false positives" that may be recorded will be minimal, if any, and a simple matter to just delete them from the PLAYLIST.

Doing so would be easier than setting up multiple search strings to cover all possibilities, IMHO.

/steve
/steve

#54 OFFLINE   JMCecil

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 11:39 AM

Then how about AANY patriots pats & Show Type, Events? Because of the "events" qualifier, the number of "false positives" that may be recorded will be minimal, if any, and a simple matter to just delete them from the PLAYLIST.
/steve

That looks about right. You seem to have answered a question I've had. Is the search Case sensitive. There I times when it seems it is. But, I can't proove it one way or the other as I don't use search very often.
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#55 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 12:05 PM

That looks about right. You seem to have answered a question I've had. Is the search Case sensitive. There I times when it seems it is. But, I can't proove it one way or the other as I don't use search very often.

There's no way to enter lower case characters in the SEARCH keypad (or via TRIPLE-TAP), so to answer your question, it must not be case sensitive.

I just use lower case in my posts to differentiate keywords form Boolean operators. :) /steve
/steve

#56 OFFLINE   JMCecil

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 12:14 PM

There's no way to enter lower case characters in the SEARCH keypad (or via TRIPLE-TAP), so to answer your question, it must not be case sensitive.

I just use lower case in my posts to differentiate keywords form Boolean operators. :) /steve

Oh yeah, Now that you mention it I guess they are all upper case. Weird the things you don't notice.

EDIT: And by "you", I mean me :)
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#57 OFFLINE   pmauro

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 09:45 AM

Thanks for sharing your ideas guys. It's no surprise that this functionality is limited by the guide data and unless there is a direct effort by DirectTV to fix this a custom search will never be reliable.

I am paying $300+ for the NFL package so in my opinion DTV should do whatever it takes to properly support "Season Pass" type auto-record functionality for my favorite team. They can work with the people licensing the guide data or amend it themselves each week. I don't care how!

It seems like a lot of people here are very tolerant - maybe I expect too much from a Sat company. :)

#58 OFFLINE   kraemerr

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 02:32 PM

Has anyone had any luck with a string to find all new shows?

My system doesn't allow the space as a keyword any longer.

I tried AANY A AND THE TO CCHAN 4 99 show type season premiere and

AANY A AND THE TO CCHAN 4 99 show type series premiere and

SERIES CCHAN 4 99 show type series premiere (and season premiere)

This used to be easy on my TiVo?

PILOT CCHAN 4 99 caught the pilots of a few new shows?

Any ideas, suggestions?

#59 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 03:15 PM

Has anyone had any luck with a string to find all new shows?

My system doesn't allow the space as a keyword any longer.

I tried AANY A AND THE TO CCHAN 4 99 show type season premiere and

AANY A AND THE TO CCHAN 4 99 show type series premiere and

SERIES CCHAN 4 99 show type series premiere (and season premiere)

This used to be easy on my TiVo?

PILOT CCHAN 4 99 caught the pilots of a few new shows?

Any ideas, suggestions?

Any show type can also be used as a keyword.

Try premiere CCHAN 4 99 & Show Type, Season Premiere (or Series Premiere)

premiere CCHAN 4 99 alone should work as well and find both types in one search (Season and Series Premieres), but might also pick up unwanted shows.

/steve

EDIT: Just tried premiere CCHAN 2 11 for my NY locals, and it happened to work flawlessly. It even picked up tonight's network premiere of Batman Begins on ABC.
/steve

#60 OFFLINE   LI-SVT

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 06:20 AM

Try:
2008 cchan 2 99>show type>premier

#61 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 07:57 AM

Try:
2008 cchan 2 99>show type>premier

i wish we could search for dates. "2008" will only match shows where 2008 is mentioned in the show title or description, not the "First Aired" field. See this thread: http://www.dbstalk.c...334#post1553334

/steve
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#62 OFFLINE   LI-SVT

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 10:42 AM

Sorry, got my HR10 and HR20 mixed up again. I think it is the HR10 that can search by aired date.

#63 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 11:00 AM

Sorry, got my HR10 and HR20 mixed up again. I think it is the HR10 that can search by aired date.

No need for apologies, IMO. I think most advanced searchers would expect the date field to be accessible. I'm hopeful it's "on the drawing board"! :) /steve
/steve

#64 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 01:33 PM

Yep, I've often used my DTiVos to search for movies based on the year (2008, 2007, even 200*) -- but it doesn't work on series episodes. So, if the suggested DDATE enhancement for HR2x Boolean searches is ever implemented, it could be a superior solution.

OT: I wonder if any more suggested features will be added, or is the HR2x now a dead end?
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#65 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 01:40 PM

OT: I wonder if any more suggested features will be added, or is the HR2x now a dead end?

OT response. :) DirecTV made it clear in the press release that the HR platform will still be the primary DVR offering, and that TiVo would be an option. Probably will be a similar model to Comcast's. If you want TiVo instead, you can have it for a monthly premium.

My uneducated guess is that as a result, from a competitive standpoint, the HR engineering team will now be even more incented to keep the HR2x platform one step or more ahead of the TiVo, and many more of our Wish List features will be implemented before the MPEG-4 DirecTiVo sees the light of day.

Just my .02. /steve
/steve

#66 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 02:08 PM

Well then... I'll plagiarize my comment in the Wish List thread in the hope of encouraging the development team to implement DDATE, etc.
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#67 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 10:24 AM

Thanks to an astute observation by Syzygy, it came to my attention that the syntax shown in the DirecTV release notes I quoted in post #4 might be confusing to some as to what SEARCH arguments are mandatory and which are optional.

DirecTV said:

[{AANY/AALL} <tokens>] [{NNOT} <tokens>] [TTITLE/NNAME] [{CCHAN} <number> [<number>]]

Since, at minimum, only a single KEYWORD is required for a search and anything within {curly braces} is optional, I've taken the liberty of editing the release notes as follows:

{AANY/AALL} <keywords> {NNOT <keywords>} {TTITLE/NNAME} {CCHAN <number> {number}} (changed after some discussion.)

(AANY/AALL) keywords (NNOT keywords) (TTITLE/NNAME) (CCHAN ## (##))

Note: At least one keyword is mandatory. Everything else is optional.


Also remember that any category designator (SPORTS, EVENTS, MOVIES, etc.) can also be included as a KEYWORD. And when searching for the category "HIGH DEF", you can use "HDTV" instead and save some keystrokes, or simply select the "HIGH-DEF" category on the continuation screen. (I find that sometimes specifying HDTV as a KEYWORD instead allows me a little more flexibility, because I can then use the continuation screen to select some other show characteristics.)

/steve
/steve

#68 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 10:48 AM

Since, at minimum, only a single KEYWORD is required for a search and anything within {curly braces} is optional, I've taken the liberty of editing the release notes as follows:

{AANY/AALL} <keywords> {NNOT <keywords>} {TTITLE/NNAME} {CCHAN <number> {number}}

Steve, It's the square brackets that indicate optional elements, with curly braces used to indicate required elements, so I find the above more confusing! :)

#69 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 11:13 AM

Steve, It's the square brackets that indicate optional elements, with curly braces used to indicate required elements, so I find the above more confusing! :)

Actually, I couldn't find a definitive answer to that on the web, so I figured for the layman, {}'s might seem more intuitive to indicate "optional" arguments, especially since DirecTV initially used them to indicate optional operators ("[{AANY/AALL} <tokens>]", e.g.)

If others agree with Drew, I'll be happy to make the change he suggests. Remember, I'm looking for notation the average HR2x user (non-programmer) might intuitively understand.

Please weigh-in with your opinions. TIA.

/steve
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#70 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 11:24 AM

Actually, I couldn't find a definitive answer to that on the web, so I figured for the layman, {}'s might seem more intuitive to indicate "optional" arguments, especially since DirecTV initially used them to indicate optional operators ("[{AANY/AALL} <tokens>]", e.g.)

If others agree with Drew, I'll be happy to make the change he suggests. Remember, I'm looking for notation the average HR2x user (non-programmer) might intuitively understand.

Please weigh-in with your opinions. TIA.

/steve

I forget the name of this - it's been a long time since the late '80s and my Theory of Programming Language class when we looked at syntax and semantics at this level! Hopefully someone else chimes in ...

#71 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 11:30 AM

I forget the name of this - it's been a long time since the late '80s and my Theory of Programming Language class when we looked at syntax and semantics at this level! Hopefully someone else chimes in ...

And if you've forgotton, think about the 99% of HR2x users who may have never even taken that class! That's the audience I'm hopeful we can make SEARCH syntax somewhat clearer to. :)

Of course, DirecTV could make this a no-brainer with the proper SEARCH WIZARD. :rolleyes: /steve
/steve

#72 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 12:54 PM

Actually, I couldn't find a definitive answer to that on the web, so I figured for the layman, {}'s might seem more intuitive to indicate "optional" arguments, especially since DirecTV initially used them to indicate optional operators ("[{AANY/AALL} <tokens>]", e.g.)

If others agree with Drew, I'll be happy to make the change he suggests. Remember, I'm looking for notation the average HR2x user (non-programmer) might intuitively understand.

Please weigh-in with your opinions. TIA.

/steve

Steve, I now recall (from books I read decades ago) that {} are supposed to be used to group a series of alternatives, as in {AANY/AALL} and {TTITLE/NNAME} -- but the "/" is supposed to be a "|".

And, as Drew said, [] are indeed supposed to enclose an optional element or a series of optional elements, as in [{AANY/AALL} <tokens>].

So the only confusion arose from the original use of {NNOT <keywords>} instead of [NNOT <keywords>] and {CCHAN <number> {number}} instead of [CCHAN <number> [<number>]].

And I think, after reflection, that {TTITLE/NNAME} should be [{TTITLE/NNAME}].

Summing up my current feeling, the one-line syntax should be:

[{AANY|AALL}] <keywords> [NNOT <keywords>] [{TTITLE|NNAME}] [CCHAN <number> [<number>]]

But I'm sure everyone would understand it without the curly braces:

[AANY|AALL] <keywords> [NNOT <keywords>] [TTITLE|NNAME] [CCHAN <number> [<number>]]

P.S.
I hoped my suggestion would be supported by articles on the (Extended) Backus–Naur Form or (E)BNF, but Backus–Naur doesn't use <>, {} indicates repetition, and it uses many short statements to get the job done. To wit:

alphabetic character ::= "A" | "B" | "C" | "D" | "E" | "F" | "G" | "H" | "I" | "J" | "K" | "L" | "M" | "N" | "O" | "P" | "Q" | "R" | "S" | "T" | "U" | "V" | "W" | "X" | "Y" | "Z" ;
digit ::= "0" | "1" | "2" | "3" | "4" | "5" | "6" | "7" | "8" | "9" ;
sp ::= " " ;
alphanumeric ::= alphabetic character | digit ;
keyword = alphanumeric , { alphanumeric } ;
keywords = keyword , { keyword } ;
select ::= "AANY" | "AALL" ;
filter ::= "TTITLE" | "NNAME" ;
channels ::= "CCHAN" , number [ sp , number ] ;
search ::= [ select , sp ] , keywords , [ sp, "NNOT" keywords ] , [ sp , filter ] , [ sp , channels ] ;


(Pretty hard to read, yes? I hope I got it right!)

I think the one-line form is based very loosely on Backus–Naur.
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HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
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#73 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 02:38 PM

For the non-programmer, it doesn't matter what you use to indicate optional.

You need to have a statement that the only thing required is at least 1 keyword; all other items are optional.
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#74 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 02:48 PM

Steve, I now recall (from books I read decades ago) that {} are supposed to be used to group a series of alternatives, as in {AANY/AALL} and {TTITLE/NNAME} -- but the "/" is supposed to be a "|".

And, as Drew said, [] are indeed supposed to enclose an optional element or a series of optional elements, as in [{AANY/AALL} <tokens>].

So the only confusion arose from the original use of {NNOT <keywords>} instead of [NNOT <keywords>] and {CCHAN <number> {number}} instead of [CCHAN <number> [<number>]].

And I think, after reflection, that {TTITLE/NNAME} should be [{TTITLE/NNAME}].

Summing up my current feeling, the one-line syntax should be:

[{AANY|AALL}] <keywords> [NNOT <keywords>] [{TTITLE|NNAME}] [CCHAN <number> [<number>]]

But I'm sure everyone would understand it without the curly braces:

[AANY|AALL] <keywords> [NNOT <keywords>] [TTITLE|NNAME] [CCHAN <number> [<number>]]

P.S.
I hoped my suggestion would be supported by articles on the (Extended) Backus–Naur Form or (E)BNF, but Backus–Naur doesn't use <>, {} indicates repetition, and it uses many short statements to get the job done. To wit:

alphabetic character ::= "A" | "B" | "C" | "D" | "E" | "F" | "G" | "H" | "I" | "J" | "K" | "L" | "M" | "N" | "O" | "P" | "Q" | "R" | "S" | "T" | "U" | "V" | "W" | "X" | "Y" | "Z" ;
digit ::= "0" | "1" | "2" | "3" | "4" | "5" | "6" | "7" | "8" | "9" ;
sp ::= " " ;
alphanumeric ::= alphabetic character | digit ;
keyword = alphanumeric , { alphanumeric } ;
keywords = keyword , { keyword } ;
select ::= "AANY" | "AALL" ;
filter ::= "TTITLE" | "NNAME" ;
channels ::= "CCHAN" , number [ sp , number ] ;
search ::= [ select , sp ] , keywords , [ sp, "NNOT" keywords ] , [ sp , filter ] , [ sp , channels ] ;


(Pretty hard to read, yes? I hope I got it right!)

I think the one-line form is based very loosely on Backus–Naur.

But, as they say, "will it play in Peoria?" What you've outlined is standard programming syntax, something only a fraction of the audience may understand, IMHO.

In an effort to make it as clear as possible, I now propose the following "layman" version, with optional terms enclosed in parentheses instead, and a statement that at least one keyword is mandatory.

(AANY/AALL) keywords (NNOT keywords) (TTITLE/NNAME) (CCHAN ## (##))

What do the folks in Peoria think about that?

/steve
/steve

#75 OFFLINE   bonscott87

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 05:06 PM

Peoria likes it. :D




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