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Advanced SEARCH/AUTORECORD Help & Discussion


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603 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 07:57 AM

Try:
2008 cchan 2 99>show type>premier

i wish we could search for dates. "2008" will only match shows where 2008 is mentioned in the show title or description, not the "First Aired" field. See this thread: http://www.dbstalk.c...334#post1553334

/steve
/steve

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#62 OFFLINE   LI-SVT

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 10:42 AM

Sorry, got my HR10 and HR20 mixed up again. I think it is the HR10 that can search by aired date.

#63 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 11:00 AM

Sorry, got my HR10 and HR20 mixed up again. I think it is the HR10 that can search by aired date.

No need for apologies, IMO. I think most advanced searchers would expect the date field to be accessible. I'm hopeful it's "on the drawing board"! :) /steve
/steve

#64 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 01:33 PM

Yep, I've often used my DTiVos to search for movies based on the year (2008, 2007, even 200*) -- but it doesn't work on series episodes. So, if the suggested DDATE enhancement for HR2x Boolean searches is ever implemented, it could be a superior solution.

OT: I wonder if any more suggested features will be added, or is the HR2x now a dead end?
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

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#65 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 01:40 PM

OT: I wonder if any more suggested features will be added, or is the HR2x now a dead end?

OT response. :) DirecTV made it clear in the press release that the HR platform will still be the primary DVR offering, and that TiVo would be an option. Probably will be a similar model to Comcast's. If you want TiVo instead, you can have it for a monthly premium.

My uneducated guess is that as a result, from a competitive standpoint, the HR engineering team will now be even more incented to keep the HR2x platform one step or more ahead of the TiVo, and many more of our Wish List features will be implemented before the MPEG-4 DirecTiVo sees the light of day.

Just my .02. /steve
/steve

#66 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 02:08 PM

Well then... I'll plagiarize my comment in the Wish List thread in the hope of encouraging the development team to implement DDATE, etc.
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#67 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 10:24 AM

Thanks to an astute observation by Syzygy, it came to my attention that the syntax shown in the DirecTV release notes I quoted in post #4 might be confusing to some as to what SEARCH arguments are mandatory and which are optional.

DirecTV said:

[{AANY/AALL} <tokens>] [{NNOT} <tokens>] [TTITLE/NNAME] [{CCHAN} <number> [<number>]]

Since, at minimum, only a single KEYWORD is required for a search and anything within {curly braces} is optional, I've taken the liberty of editing the release notes as follows:

{AANY/AALL} <keywords> {NNOT <keywords>} {TTITLE/NNAME} {CCHAN <number> {number}} (changed after some discussion.)

(AANY/AALL) keywords (NNOT keywords) (TTITLE/NNAME) (CCHAN ## (##))

Note: At least one keyword is mandatory. Everything else is optional.


Also remember that any category designator (SPORTS, EVENTS, MOVIES, etc.) can also be included as a KEYWORD. And when searching for the category "HIGH DEF", you can use "HDTV" instead and save some keystrokes, or simply select the "HIGH-DEF" category on the continuation screen. (I find that sometimes specifying HDTV as a KEYWORD instead allows me a little more flexibility, because I can then use the continuation screen to select some other show characteristics.)

/steve
/steve

#68 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 10:48 AM

Since, at minimum, only a single KEYWORD is required for a search and anything within {curly braces} is optional, I've taken the liberty of editing the release notes as follows:

{AANY/AALL} <keywords> {NNOT <keywords>} {TTITLE/NNAME} {CCHAN <number> {number}}

Steve, It's the square brackets that indicate optional elements, with curly braces used to indicate required elements, so I find the above more confusing! :)

#69 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 11:13 AM

Steve, It's the square brackets that indicate optional elements, with curly braces used to indicate required elements, so I find the above more confusing! :)

Actually, I couldn't find a definitive answer to that on the web, so I figured for the layman, {}'s might seem more intuitive to indicate "optional" arguments, especially since DirecTV initially used them to indicate optional operators ("[{AANY/AALL} <tokens>]", e.g.)

If others agree with Drew, I'll be happy to make the change he suggests. Remember, I'm looking for notation the average HR2x user (non-programmer) might intuitively understand.

Please weigh-in with your opinions. TIA.

/steve
/steve

#70 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 11:24 AM

Actually, I couldn't find a definitive answer to that on the web, so I figured for the layman, {}'s might seem more intuitive to indicate "optional" arguments, especially since DirecTV initially used them to indicate optional operators ("[{AANY/AALL} <tokens>]", e.g.)

If others agree with Drew, I'll be happy to make the change he suggests. Remember, I'm looking for notation the average HR2x user (non-programmer) might intuitively understand.

Please weigh-in with your opinions. TIA.

/steve

I forget the name of this - it's been a long time since the late '80s and my Theory of Programming Language class when we looked at syntax and semantics at this level! Hopefully someone else chimes in ...

#71 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 11:30 AM

I forget the name of this - it's been a long time since the late '80s and my Theory of Programming Language class when we looked at syntax and semantics at this level! Hopefully someone else chimes in ...

And if you've forgotton, think about the 99% of HR2x users who may have never even taken that class! That's the audience I'm hopeful we can make SEARCH syntax somewhat clearer to. :)

Of course, DirecTV could make this a no-brainer with the proper SEARCH WIZARD. :rolleyes: /steve
/steve

#72 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 12:54 PM

Actually, I couldn't find a definitive answer to that on the web, so I figured for the layman, {}'s might seem more intuitive to indicate "optional" arguments, especially since DirecTV initially used them to indicate optional operators ("[{AANY/AALL} <tokens>]", e.g.)

If others agree with Drew, I'll be happy to make the change he suggests. Remember, I'm looking for notation the average HR2x user (non-programmer) might intuitively understand.

Please weigh-in with your opinions. TIA.

/steve

Steve, I now recall (from books I read decades ago) that {} are supposed to be used to group a series of alternatives, as in {AANY/AALL} and {TTITLE/NNAME} -- but the "/" is supposed to be a "|".

And, as Drew said, [] are indeed supposed to enclose an optional element or a series of optional elements, as in [{AANY/AALL} <tokens>].

So the only confusion arose from the original use of {NNOT <keywords>} instead of [NNOT <keywords>] and {CCHAN <number> {number}} instead of [CCHAN <number> [<number>]].

And I think, after reflection, that {TTITLE/NNAME} should be [{TTITLE/NNAME}].

Summing up my current feeling, the one-line syntax should be:

[{AANY|AALL}] <keywords> [NNOT <keywords>] [{TTITLE|NNAME}] [CCHAN <number> [<number>]]

But I'm sure everyone would understand it without the curly braces:

[AANY|AALL] <keywords> [NNOT <keywords>] [TTITLE|NNAME] [CCHAN <number> [<number>]]

P.S.
I hoped my suggestion would be supported by articles on the (Extended) Backus–Naur Form or (E)BNF, but Backus–Naur doesn't use <>, {} indicates repetition, and it uses many short statements to get the job done. To wit:

alphabetic character ::= "A" | "B" | "C" | "D" | "E" | "F" | "G" | "H" | "I" | "J" | "K" | "L" | "M" | "N" | "O" | "P" | "Q" | "R" | "S" | "T" | "U" | "V" | "W" | "X" | "Y" | "Z" ;
digit ::= "0" | "1" | "2" | "3" | "4" | "5" | "6" | "7" | "8" | "9" ;
sp ::= " " ;
alphanumeric ::= alphabetic character | digit ;
keyword = alphanumeric , { alphanumeric } ;
keywords = keyword , { keyword } ;
select ::= "AANY" | "AALL" ;
filter ::= "TTITLE" | "NNAME" ;
channels ::= "CCHAN" , number [ sp , number ] ;
search ::= [ select , sp ] , keywords , [ sp, "NNOT" keywords ] , [ sp , filter ] , [ sp , channels ] ;


(Pretty hard to read, yes? I hope I got it right!)

I think the one-line form is based very loosely on Backus–Naur.
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#73 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 02:38 PM

For the non-programmer, it doesn't matter what you use to indicate optional.

You need to have a statement that the only thing required is at least 1 keyword; all other items are optional.
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#74 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 02:48 PM

Steve, I now recall (from books I read decades ago) that {} are supposed to be used to group a series of alternatives, as in {AANY/AALL} and {TTITLE/NNAME} -- but the "/" is supposed to be a "|".

And, as Drew said, [] are indeed supposed to enclose an optional element or a series of optional elements, as in [{AANY/AALL} <tokens>].

So the only confusion arose from the original use of {NNOT <keywords>} instead of [NNOT <keywords>] and {CCHAN <number> {number}} instead of [CCHAN <number> [<number>]].

And I think, after reflection, that {TTITLE/NNAME} should be [{TTITLE/NNAME}].

Summing up my current feeling, the one-line syntax should be:

[{AANY|AALL}] <keywords> [NNOT <keywords>] [{TTITLE|NNAME}] [CCHAN <number> [<number>]]

But I'm sure everyone would understand it without the curly braces:

[AANY|AALL] <keywords> [NNOT <keywords>] [TTITLE|NNAME] [CCHAN <number> [<number>]]

P.S.
I hoped my suggestion would be supported by articles on the (Extended) Backus–Naur Form or (E)BNF, but Backus–Naur doesn't use <>, {} indicates repetition, and it uses many short statements to get the job done. To wit:

alphabetic character ::= "A" | "B" | "C" | "D" | "E" | "F" | "G" | "H" | "I" | "J" | "K" | "L" | "M" | "N" | "O" | "P" | "Q" | "R" | "S" | "T" | "U" | "V" | "W" | "X" | "Y" | "Z" ;
digit ::= "0" | "1" | "2" | "3" | "4" | "5" | "6" | "7" | "8" | "9" ;
sp ::= " " ;
alphanumeric ::= alphabetic character | digit ;
keyword = alphanumeric , { alphanumeric } ;
keywords = keyword , { keyword } ;
select ::= "AANY" | "AALL" ;
filter ::= "TTITLE" | "NNAME" ;
channels ::= "CCHAN" , number [ sp , number ] ;
search ::= [ select , sp ] , keywords , [ sp, "NNOT" keywords ] , [ sp , filter ] , [ sp , channels ] ;


(Pretty hard to read, yes? I hope I got it right!)

I think the one-line form is based very loosely on Backus–Naur.

But, as they say, "will it play in Peoria?" What you've outlined is standard programming syntax, something only a fraction of the audience may understand, IMHO.

In an effort to make it as clear as possible, I now propose the following "layman" version, with optional terms enclosed in parentheses instead, and a statement that at least one keyword is mandatory.

(AANY/AALL) keywords (NNOT keywords) (TTITLE/NNAME) (CCHAN ## (##))

What do the folks in Peoria think about that?

/steve
/steve

#75 OFFLINE   bonscott87

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 05:06 PM

Peoria likes it. :D

#76 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 05:06 AM

Peoria likes it. :D

Thx! Change made. /steve
/steve

#77 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 05:20 AM

I'll (belatedly) add my agreement. Even as I was typing my last, long-winded post, I was aware of the irony that my "(Extended) Backus–Naur Form or (E)BNF" is pretty standard English. That's 'cuz people hardly ever use brackets in standard English prose (except for in-line edits to a quotation) and never use braces.
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#78 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 05:28 AM

'cuz people ... never use braces.

Except to sometimes hold their pants up. :) /steve
/steve

#79 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 07:33 PM

(AANY/AALL) keywords (NNOT keywords) (TTITLE/NNAME) (CCHAN ## (##))

What do the folks in Peoria think about that?

/steve

Looks good, Steve. Easy to follow and gets the point across ...

#80 OFFLINE   carrot

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 10:47 PM

I see some references to CCHAN 4-1 above implying that the CCHAN filter can distinguish between OTA and Satellite. My own attempts to use this fails and it looks like the “-1” is ignored.

So far all I get is simultaneous duplicate recordings making the command worse than useless. I have the guide set to not display HD duplicates though that is a very different meaning from OTA and Satellite.

Has anyone actually (as opposed to theoretically) got the auto search and record to distinguish between Satellite and OTA with the same number?

Or has anyone any details on the exact syntax useage of X for CCHAN N-X ?




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