Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Analyst on ZDNet.com really upset with blank recordings on his hr-20 & 21


  • Please log in to reply
313 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

Carl Spock

    Superfly

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,567 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2004

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:03 PM

And it depends on where you live. Where I'm at, if I want HD, it's DirecTV or Dish, period. And I like the picture on DirecTV better, plus they have more channels.

I'll put up with some (fortunately not much) misery with my HR20-700 because I really have very few options.
hangin' with the bros at 40 Eridani A

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 OFFLINE   justlgi

justlgi

    Guest

  • Registered
  • 152 posts
Joined: Apr 11, 2008

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:03 PM

I'd say, I'd have to agree with justlgi. I find the HR20 to be superior to the TIVO platform. It wasn't when it cameout, but it is now.


You need to reread my post.

The HR is better now, but it's no tivo, and you've gotten used to the mediocrity.

#23 OFFLINE   tcusta00

tcusta00

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 7,911 posts
Joined: Dec 31, 2007

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:04 PM

And it depends on where you live. Where I'm at, if I want HD, it's DirecTV or Dish, period. And I like the picture on DirecTV better, plus they have more channels.

I'll put up with some (fortunately not much) misery with my HR20-700 because I really have very few options.


Carl - good point, but I doubt that's the case in the SF Bay area.

#24 OFFLINE   RobertE

RobertE

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 8,024 posts
Joined: Jun 09, 2006

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:10 PM

and 10 minutes to end our misery once and for all (but maybe new misery elsewhere)..


Fixed your post. :) :lol:
Have an Error or Diagnostic code? Find out what it means and how to fix it here: Click Me
Having issues with your HD locals? Report them here: Click Me
Is your receiver compatible with MRV? Check Here

#25 OFFLINE   justlgi

justlgi

    Guest

  • Registered
  • 152 posts
Joined: Apr 11, 2008

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:10 PM

If you've had an HR2x for two years (as above) you're not in a contract... unless of course you were dumb enough to re-up the contract by getting another crappy HR2x. :rolleyes:


Only speaking for myself and situation in article. When the business model is via contract asking me why I don’t leave isn't a valid argument.

I do see your point after contract is up. I have service coverage on my account so that once 2 years is up I can make a choice then. Right now it doesn't look good for D*, but if they still rule HD in my area maybe it will.

#26 OFFLINE   LarryFlowers

LarryFlowers

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,290 posts
Joined: Sep 22, 2006

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:11 PM

Posted Image



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Larry R. Flowers
Winder (Atlanta) GA
Twitter @larryflowers
HR20-700 HR23-700 H24-100
1st DirecTV Receiver Install Nov 1994
i'm a PC Guy

#27 OFFLINE   tcusta00

tcusta00

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 7,911 posts
Joined: Dec 31, 2007

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:12 PM

Only speaking for myself and situation in article. When the business model is via contract asking me why I don’t leave isn't a valid argument.

I do see your point after contract is up. I have service coverage on my account so that once 2 years is up I can make a choice then. Right now it doesn't look good for D*, but if they still rule HD in my area maybe it will.


I wasn't referring directly to you - I was more referring to the guys that changed their avatars to HR-lemons.

#28 OFFLINE   Nicholsen

Nicholsen

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 391 posts
Joined: Aug 18, 2007

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:14 PM

I'm sure I'll get flamed into oblivion for even saying this, but .... the fact is that the in spite of what any D* sympathizer here will say the Tivo software was vastly superior what D* is now developing in-house. It's better than what Comcast was doing and that's why they are rolling out the tivo stuff on their boxes.

I know this has been beat into the ground over and over again, but how many times do people have to start out with "I used to have a tivo, now I have this HR20 piece of crap."

I consider myself an early adapter and am willing to put up with more to get more (HD in this case). But I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who isn't willing to put up with a large amount of BS.

Comcast has their problems and I’ve mentioned so in other threads. But these DVRs have not been good for D* (along with crappy installs). They will only remain on top as long as they have the most channels. As soon as the others catch up people will jump ship.


Justlgi:

I stand behind you. That way you can shield me from the worst of the heat. :D

IMHO, the TIVO box is much better than the current D* offering. I suspect many others think so as well, but they have either have moved on or are simply weary of the "My HR2x works perfectly posts."

My Tivo HR10-250 is probably good for 24 months, and gets the networks in HD reliably. By then, anything is possible.

#29 OFFLINE   justlgi

justlgi

    Guest

  • Registered
  • 152 posts
Joined: Apr 11, 2008

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:23 PM

The problem with this article is that it opens old wounds. I didn't even know about this board until I upgraded to the HR20 I didn't know about it because I didn't have to. But I had to seek it out due to searching for signal and blank recordings galore.

Slowly the problems are ceasing for me. But new ones crop up with new releases. But I think that I'm better equipped to deal with it because of the community here. But let’s be honest that shouldn't have to be the case. Just look at the thread for the latest software release.

Maybe it's just how long I had TIVO (3 years) that I just don't remember the issues. But that seems to be the case for most people who had it.

#30 OFFLINE   Nicholsen

Nicholsen

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 391 posts
Joined: Aug 18, 2007

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:23 PM

And it depends on where you live. Where I'm at, if I want HD, it's DirecTV or Dish, period. And I like the picture on DirecTV better, plus they have more channels.

I'll put up with some (fortunately not much) misery with my HR20-700 because I really have very few options.


Carl:

Is the Comcast offering in SF really that bad? Is that based upon any recent first hand experiences?

#31 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

Carl Spock

    Superfly

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,567 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2004

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:28 PM

^ I have no idea. I live outside LaCrosse, Wisconsin. tcusta00 was referring to someone else. My location is quite rural.

Back on topic: It's a shame DirecTV is getting this public spanking, but maybe it will be a motivator. It seems like they are seriously working on stability of the HR2x with the latest updates and CE offerings. But of course, that now has resulted in a new problem, the slow response to the remote and freeze-up bug. This would drive me crazy if I was a software engineer.
hangin' with the bros at 40 Eridani A

#32 OFFLINE   t_h

t_h

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 812 posts
Joined: Mar 07, 2008

Posted 14 July 2008 - 07:52 PM

In my almost four months with the HR20 after 7 years of series one tivos and directivos, I'm disappointed.

I switched because my directivo started having glitchy guide problems when directv changed to the "new guide data stream" a couple of years back. Before they made that change, the series 1 and directivo's were pretty darn bulletproof and rarely had problems.

With the directivo problems we were having (missed shows mostly) I was assured by directv that the problems had to do with tivo being the software originator and directv having no control over the problems. And that I wouldnt have the same problems with their product.

Were I not many hundreds of dollars into this 'solution' and more than a year and a half on a contract, I'd bail on it. Heck, I just found out yesterday that my $300 investment in NFL sunday ticket didnt even get me the games in HD, that I'd have to spend an extra $100 to get that. When I got HD recorders, an HD dish, pay HD access fees, and subscribe to all the HD channels. I was so mad I came within a nanosecond of telling them to try billing me for the cancellation fees and come get their crappy equipment.

The frequent problems I'm experiencing are reminiscent of tivo s/w back in the 1.2/1.3 and early 2.0 days. Blank recordings, periodic slow response times, reboots required, missed shows by the boatload. I definitely jumped from the frying pan into the fire.

In the meanwhile, my circa 2001 series 1 tivo thats hooked up to the basic cable feed to get my sons PBS shows continues to record exactly what I want, exactly when its supposed to. And hasnt required a reboot in almost a year since I plugged it in.

Using software from around 2003.

The HD capabilities, on-demand and some of the other niceties are good, when the box works. But its become clear to me that directv is far more interested in matching feature lists with their competitors than making the core functionality of the product work properly. Their programmers know that, and who in their right mind would want to work on boring old basic recording functionality when you could write code to support WIDGETS!

All this time I really wanted widgets, and didnt even know it. :rolleyes:

Cable might be worse. Tivo might not be as good as I remember it. Dish can kiss my patootie after giving me the most horrifying customer service experience of my life.

But this is no bueno.

#33 OFFLINE   Drew2k

Drew2k

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 13,661 posts
Joined: Aug 16, 2006

Posted 14 July 2008 - 08:18 PM

I have actually been surprised that nobody in the "media " (Cnet, the WSJ, a blogger etc.), has reported on this story before. It's an interesting story and the media loves reporting about problems with a product rollout.

I'm more surprised that the tech-press and bloggers haven't had more reports on the success of the CE program, resulting in what is essentially a reinvention of the DVR Plus software.

Like the blogger, I am stunned that D* has been this cavalier about the HR2x roll-out problems. I had hoped that they would get their act together over the summer, as more of these boxes were rolled out to the Sunday ticket subscribers.

If the boxes lock up on a Sunday or Monday in the fall, you will begin to hear true weeping and wailing from customers. I will continue to run the Tivo HR10-250 as my primary DVR while I wait for the dust to settle.

There's no way I would call DIRECTV's response to user problems cavalier. Do you see Comcast or Cablevision or Dish creating public beta programs with the depth, breadth and level of involvement that DIRECTV has? And are you aware of how much the DVR has changed since DIRECTV started the Cutting Edge program? That's not cavalier. That's investing in their customers.

#34 OFFLINE   guins

guins

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 34 posts
Joined: Sep 12, 2007

Posted 14 July 2008 - 08:21 PM

I could have written this article. I just got my 3rd HD-20 delivered in less than a year. If this one acts like the others, I am gone! I never imagined leaving Directv (after 10 years), but clearly DISH has the better hardware at this point in time.

#35 OFFLINE   say-what

say-what

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 5,646 posts
  • LocationNew Orleans
Joined: Dec 13, 2006

Posted 14 July 2008 - 08:28 PM

Yet the experiences noted in that article are the complete opposite of my experience. Not sure why some people have problems and others don't - poor installation could be one reason - but I've been happy with my HR20's and HR21's. Can't recall a missed recording or instant keep or delete bug since January (maybe February) 2007.

* Sat - 5lnb slimline dish - SWM16 F/W 2.0.24
* Network - hardwired - Apple Airport / Uverse 2wire router > Dell Studio XPS 800, Win7 Ultimate 64 bit, 8GB ram, Intel Core i7-860 processor, nVidia GeForce GTS240
* HR44-200/AM21 - coax enabled networking - hdmi to Sony STR-DG810 - Sony Bravia KDL-EX740 | Bose Acoustimass 600 5.1 speakers | Sony PS3 | xBox 360 | AppleTV | GenieGo
* HR24-500 - coax enabled networking - hdmi - Vizio Razor M260VA
* HR34-700/AM21 - Ethernet bridged - hdmi = Sony Bravia KDL-V26XBR1 | Slingbox Pro via HDConnect component cable


#36 OFFLINE   Nicholsen

Nicholsen

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 391 posts
Joined: Aug 18, 2007

Posted 14 July 2008 - 08:58 PM

I'm more surprised that the tech-press and bloggers haven't had more reports on the success of the CE program, resulting in what is essentially a reinvention of the DVR Plus software.

There's no way I would call DIRECTV's response to user problems cavalier. Do you see Comcast or Cablevision or Dish creating public beta programs with the depth, breadth and level of involvement that DIRECTV has? And are you aware of how much the DVR has changed since DIRECTV started the Cutting Edge program? That's not cavalier. That's investing in their customers.


Hey, I would like D* to succeed. That sometimes requires tough love. If you want excellent products, you get that by having high expectations. I became a D* customer because it had superior hardware (Ultimate TV) and PQ (pre HD days) and the NFL :).

As I pointed out, the press likes to cover product roll-out "problems." A beta testing program for DVR software is not really news, especially a successful one.

The recent misfire with the NR is hardly evidence of the "success of the CE program." Didn't the recently withdrawn NR go through the CE program? My sense is that most of the CE beta testers are pretty invested in the HR2x platform. Nothing wrong with that, but it means when things go badly they are more charitable toward D* than many of the rest of us are inclined to be.

Dish is now running ads where they crow about their number one DVR ranking on Cnet. (I have never used their box or the service, no flames please.) Therefore, Dish doesn't need to talk about a public beta program, as it appears their DVR is pretty well received by reviewers and users. IMHO, TIVO is in a class by itself. If you hang a TIVO box on your cable system, the DVR beta software testing program will probably be the least of your problems.

I do think D*s failure to make a public statement about the status of the current NR and its future plans for the HR2x software is rather "cavalier." I think that was the blogger's point as well.

I am sure D* management wants the HR2x software to work as much as anyone. However, when there is a misfire that leads to missed recordings, RBRs, etc., the best thing to do would be to make a statement about (i) what happened and (ii) how long it will take to fix. The lack of formal communication on this issue makes the problem more irritating.

#37 OFFLINE   bakers12

bakers12

    What? Me hurry?

  • Registered
  • 1,631 posts
  • LocationChicago - W. Suburbs
Joined: May 29, 2007

Posted 14 July 2008 - 10:22 PM

I would like to know how much of the trouble is a result of bad installs. I have three receivers. The original installation included an HR20 and a D12. I actually helped during the install, pulling wires and such. I think the job was done well and both receivers have worked very well.

Later, I was invited to be part of the SWMLine field trial. I had promised that if I could be involved that I would add an HR21, so I did. Since one advantage of SWM technology was that you could reuse a cable installation, I decided to do just that.

It's using old cable, old barrel connectors and who knows what is under the siding outside. That HR21 has had a lot of problems.

As soon as I get the drill bit I need to run a new line up from the basement, I will find out just how important the installation is. I suspect it is important judging from the fact that the installation is the big difference between those that work and that which doesn't.

House #1:
HR20-700 -> LG 42LH40 LCD (HDMI)
HR23-700, AM21N -> Slingbox Solo (component)
and AverTV HD DVR C027 card on Lenovo desktop (HDMI)
HR23-700, AM21 -> Samsung HL-R4266W (HDMI)
AU9 SWM5

House #2:
HR34-700 ->
Insignia NS-55L260A13 Rev E (HDMI)
C31-700 -> Sansui SLED1980E (HDMI)
AU9 SWM5

More details are available here.


#38 OFFLINE   Lee L

Lee L

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,134 posts
Joined: Aug 15, 2002

Posted 15 July 2008 - 07:38 AM

I would like to know how much of the trouble is a result of bad installs. I have three receivers. The original installation included an HR20 and a D12. I actually helped during the install, pulling wires and such. I think the job was done well and both receivers have worked very well.

Later, I was invited to be part of the SWMLine field trial. I had promised that if I could be involved that I would add an HR21, so I did. Since one advantage of SWM technology was that you could reuse a cable installation, I decided to do just that.

It's using old cable, old barrel connectors and who knows what is under the siding outside. That HR21 has had a lot of problems.

As soon as I get the drill bit I need to run a new line up from the basement, I will find out just how important the installation is. I suspect it is important judging from the fact that the installation is the big difference between those that work and that which doesn't.


Maybe it is installations. However, all my Signal levels are good to excellent, my house is only a couple of years old with all RG6Q wiring with 3 lines to each location. 2 SAT and 1 OTA. I had lots of blank recordings for a while a few months back, then nothing changed other than the software and I have had none for a while. Of course others are having them still, but the incidence sure seems much lower than a couple of months back.


I am glad to see this issue getting coverage though. I always figured that it just took the right people having it happen a few times and DirecTV would have to devote more resources to this issue. Given the intermittent nature of the issue, the only way they will get it fixed is by long and careful observation. I know it is hard, but they have to keep working on it.


DirecTV, please don't make me have to go back to watching March Madness in standard Def! Oh, and the usual begging for AMC and BBC America. You are so close to actually being the HD Leader.

#39 OFFLINE   tonyd79

tonyd79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 12,431 posts
  • LocationColumbia, MD
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Posted 15 July 2008 - 08:40 AM

I'm sure I'll get flamed into oblivion for even saying this, but .... the fact is that the in spite of what any D* sympathizer here will say the Tivo software was vastly superior what D* is now developing in-house. It's better than what Comcast was doing and that's why they are rolling out the tivo stuff on their boxes.


You haven't been keeping up. Tivo on the Comcast box is such a disaster that they are running from it right now.

I know this has been beat into the ground over and over again, but how many times do people have to start out with "I used to have a tivo, now I have this HR20 piece of crap."

About the same amount of times that I realize that I have more problems with my ONE Tivo with a cablecard than I do with THREE HR2x's. All complicated systems have issues.

Comcast has their problems and I’ve mentioned so in other threads. But these DVRs have not been good for D* (along with crappy installs). They will only remain on top as long as they have the most channels. As soon as the others catch up people will jump ship.


Contrary to opinion in geek areas like this one, most people do NOT pick a provider based upon DVRs or other hardware. They pick it on price and content. That is why there are so many real POS's like SA8300s in the wild.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

#40 OFFLINE   ATARI

ATARI

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,876 posts
Joined: May 10, 2007

Posted 15 July 2008 - 08:50 AM

^ I have no idea. I live outside LaCrosse, Wisconsin. tcusta00 was referring to someone else. My location is quite rural.

Back on topic: It's a shame DirecTV is getting this public spanking, but maybe it will be a motivator. It seems like they are seriously working on stability of the HR2x with the latest updates and CE offerings. But of course, that now has resulted in a new problem, the slow response to the remote and freeze-up bug. This would drive me crazy if I was a software engineer.


I don't disagree that they are probably working on stability, but with the latest updates (235 & 251), they have failed.




spam firewall