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HD programs don't fit screen


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10 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   420benz

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 05:48 PM

Channel 69wupa is in HD but will not fill up the screen [too narrow] Channel 69at is not in HD and does fit the screen.I cannot hide the Dup. channels for this reason.
D* HR24-500
DVR R16-300
2 Std. D11-100
Samsung HL-R6167w TV
Onkyo Receiver HT-R340
Samsung DVD-HD 850
Panasonic DMR-ES 35V Combo

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#2 OFFLINE   LarryFlowers

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 06:07 PM

Channel 69wupa is in HD but will not fill up the screen [too narrow] Channel 69at is not in HD and does fit the screen.I cannot hide the Dup. channels for this reason.


I am in the Atlanta market and have no problems with the 69 signal. Some of the CW network shows are not in HD, for example Beuty and the Geek. Check you picture on Reaper tonight and see what you get.
Larry R. Flowers
Winder (Atlanta) GA
Twitter @larryflowers
HR20-700 HR23-700 H24-100
1st DirecTV Receiver Install Nov 1994
i'm a PC Guy

#3 OFFLINE   420benz

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 08:34 PM

I am in the Atlanta market and have no problems with the 69 signal. Some of the CW network shows are not in HD, for example Beuty and the Geek. Check you picture on Reaper tonight and see what you get.

Every program on 17,2 and 69 have the same results.
D* HR24-500
DVR R16-300
2 Std. D11-100
Samsung HL-R6167w TV
Onkyo Receiver HT-R340
Samsung DVD-HD 850
Panasonic DMR-ES 35V Combo

#4 OFFLINE   420benz

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 06:34 AM

I don't understand why if the program is in HD it is not wide enough to fill the screen.Is that why there are two of the same channel?
D* HR24-500
DVR R16-300
2 Std. D11-100
Samsung HL-R6167w TV
Onkyo Receiver HT-R340
Samsung DVD-HD 850
Panasonic DMR-ES 35V Combo

#5 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 06:38 AM

I don't understand why if the program is in HD it is not wide enough to fill the screen.Is that why there are two of the same channel?

Sometimes a network show is in HD but not 16x9 (quite a few shows like that actually). Then, if I watch the SD version, my TV will stretch it to fit.

How is your TV set up? Does it stretch SD or will it piller box?

Mike

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Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#6 OFFLINE   LarryFlowers

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 08:23 AM

Programs are broadcast in many formats and that will be the situation for a long time to come.

Some shows were shot in the old 4x3 format and any attempt to make these full screen on an HD set will result in some type of distortion. Some movies are shot in a widescreen format that on an HD TV will still leave a small black bar at the top and bottom of the screen... the upside of this is that when you see it you know that no pan and scan techniques were used that may have removed some portion of the picture on the screen.

Right now, network television shows in HD are in the 16x9 format and will fill the screen. Non HD network shows and there are many, will be in 4x3 format. You can "force" it to fill your screen but it will cause distortion in the picture.

There is a pretty good article about this, with illustrations at http://en.wikipedia....play_resolution
Larry R. Flowers
Winder (Atlanta) GA
Twitter @larryflowers
HR20-700 HR23-700 H24-100
1st DirecTV Receiver Install Nov 1994
i'm a PC Guy

#7 OFFLINE   420benz

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 08:46 AM

Sometimes a network show is in HD but not 16x9 (quite a few shows like that actually). Then, if I watch the SD version, my TV will stretch it to fit.

How is your TV set up? Does it stretch SD or will it piller box?

Mike

When i switch to the other[same channel number] it will fill the screen,but not in HD.
D* HR24-500
DVR R16-300
2 Std. D11-100
Samsung HL-R6167w TV
Onkyo Receiver HT-R340
Samsung DVD-HD 850
Panasonic DMR-ES 35V Combo

#8 OFFLINE   420benz

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 08:51 AM

Programs are broadcast in many formats and that will be the situation for a long time to come.

Some shows were shot in the old 4x3 format and any attempt to make these full screen on an HD set will result in some type of distortion. Some movies are shot in a widescreen format that on an HD TV will still leave a small black bar at the top and bottom of the screen... the upside of this is that when you see it you know that no pan and scan techniques were used that may have removed some portion of the picture on the screen.

Right now, network television shows in HD are in the 16x9 format and will fill the screen. Non HD network shows and there are many, will be in 4x3 format. You can "force" it to fill your screen but it will cause distortion in the picture.

There is a pretty good article about this, with illustrations at http://en.wikipedia....play_resolution

The non HD shows are the only ones that will fill the screen.
D* HR24-500
DVR R16-300
2 Std. D11-100
Samsung HL-R6167w TV
Onkyo Receiver HT-R340
Samsung DVD-HD 850
Panasonic DMR-ES 35V Combo

#9 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 09:24 AM

The non HD shows are the only ones that will fill the screen.

Does this apply to all channels or just to your locals?

How is you TV connected to your receiver?

There are two versions of channels because some are simulcast in both SD and HD.

If you go to the HDTV menu under System Setup (I think it's the HD menu), you can to select "Hide SD Duplicates". This will only show the HD versions of channels that are simulcast.

Menu->Parental, Fav's & Setup->System Setup->

Are the prime time shows on your locals the same way?

Mike

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#10 OFFLINE   rudeney

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 10:30 AM

This is complicated to explain and (once all the “other” bugs are worked out) will likely be the biggest complain of people moving to HDTV. SDTV broadcasts are 4:3 (nearly square). HDTV broadcasts are 16:9 (widescreen). If you watch a 4:3 SDTV program on a 16:9 TV, you have several options.

One option is called “pillar box”, where the 4:3 program fills the screen top to bottom, but not side-to-side, and thus there will be empty (usually black or gray) bars or “pillars” added to the sides of the image. Another option is called “stretch” or “fill” which stretches the image wider so it fills the fill 16:9 screen. You get no annoying black bars on the sides, but the picture is distorted with objects and people appearing “short and wide”. Some equipment has a fill mode that stretches the outer left and right edges of the image more than the middle which helps to minimize the “wide” appearance of objects in the center of the screen, but can give the image a “fishbowl” effect when the camera pans. Another way to view 4:3 content on a 16:9 set is in “zoom” or “crop” mode. This literally zooms-in on the image so it fills the width of the screen, but at the expense of cutting or “cropping” of some of the top and bottom of the picture.

In addition to these basic three choices for adapting 4:3 content to a 16:9 screen, some equipment may have options to adjust how much zooming and stretching is done. For example, some zoom adjusts can reach a happy medium where the “pillar” bars are much more narrow and less of the top and bottom are cut-off. Other may have adjustments for the stretch mode that allow the image to be stretch slightly in height at the expense of cutting-off some fo the top and bottom, but reducing the “wide” distortion.

Your HR2x has the ability to show SDTV channels in pillar box, stretch, or zoom mode, although with no “fine” adjustments. The HR2x will *not* allow you to make any of these adjustments to HDTV content on a 16:9 TV. Your TV may have some of these adjustments and it may or may not allow them to be selected when it is receiving an HDTV signal. For example, I have an older Panasonic 42” plasma that will allow aspect adjustments on SDTV signals (480i or 480p), but it will not allow them on HDTV signals (720p or 1080i). My newer 50” Panasonic plasma allows the adjustments on any signal, from 480i up to 1080p.

My guess is that you have your HR2x set to either “crop” or “stretch” mode for SDTV channels. When you tune to an SDTV channel, the HR2x automatically adjusts the 4:3 picture so it fills your 16:9 TV. However, when you tune to an HDTV channel, the HR2x simply passes the image as it is broadcast by the station. And there’s the “rub” – even though you are watching an HDTV channel, the actual program content they are showing may have originally been recorded in a 4:3 aspect ration and not 16:9. In this case, the broadcast station has to choose how they want to fit that into their 16:9 HDTV broadcast. They may choose to zoom it, stretch it, or just put in the pillar bars. Regardless of what they do, your HR2x has no control – it can only send that image to your TV as broadcast.

By the way, different HDTV stations do different things. Most of the newer programs on the major networks (NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX) are being filmed in 16:9 HDTV. Examples include American Idol, Law & Order, CSI, etc. Some programs, like Deal or No Deal and local news segments, are still in SDTV and thus have the pillar bars added. Some of the “cable” networks like TLC and Discovery take their older 4:3 content and do a decent job with a combination of zoom and stretch that results in very narrow pillar bars, very little loss of top and bottom edges due to cropping, and very little distortion from stretching. Some stations like TNT-HD do a horrible job of putting 4:3 content into a 16:9 broadcast by stretching it and using the “fishbowl” effect. It’s especially aggravating when they do this on the “pan and scan: 4:3 version of a theatrical movie that was originally filmed in 16:9 widescreen mode.

I hope this helps explain why you see what you do! I know I rambled on, but I hear enough people talking about this that it seemed like it needed the explanation.

#11 OFFLINE   420benz

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 03:19 PM

This is complicated to explain and (once all the “other” bugs are worked out) will likely be the biggest complain of people moving to HDTV. SDTV broadcasts are 4:3 (nearly square). HDTV broadcasts are 16:9 (widescreen). If you watch a 4:3 SDTV program on a 16:9 TV, you have several options.

One option is called “pillar box”, where the 4:3 program fills the screen top to bottom, but not side-to-side, and thus there will be empty (usually black or gray) bars or “pillars” added to the sides of the image. Another option is called “stretch” or “fill” which stretches the image wider so it fills the fill 16:9 screen. You get no annoying black bars on the sides, but the picture is distorted with objects and people appearing “short and wide”. Some equipment has a fill mode that stretches the outer left and right edges of the image more than the middle which helps to minimize the “wide” appearance of objects in the center of the screen, but can give the image a “fishbowl” effect when the camera pans. Another way to view 4:3 content on a 16:9 set is in “zoom” or “crop” mode. This literally zooms-in on the image so it fills the width of the screen, but at the expense of cutting or “cropping” of some of the top and bottom of the picture.

In addition to these basic three choices for adapting 4:3 content to a 16:9 screen, some equipment may have options to adjust how much zooming and stretching is done. For example, some zoom adjusts can reach a happy medium where the “pillar” bars are much more narrow and less of the top and bottom are cut-off. Other may have adjustments for the stretch mode that allow the image to be stretch slightly in height at the expense of cutting-off some fo the top and bottom, but reducing the “wide” distortion.

Your HR2x has the ability to show SDTV channels in pillar box, stretch, or zoom mode, although with no “fine” adjustments. The HR2x will *not* allow you to make any of these adjustments to HDTV content on a 16:9 TV. Your TV may have some of these adjustments and it may or may not allow them to be selected when it is receiving an HDTV signal. For example, I have an older Panasonic 42” plasma that will allow aspect adjustments on SDTV signals (480i or 480p), but it will not allow them on HDTV signals (720p or 1080i). My newer 50” Panasonic plasma allows the adjustments on any signal, from 480i up to 1080p.

My guess is that you have your HR2x set to either “crop” or “stretch” mode for SDTV channels. When you tune to an SDTV channel, the HR2x automatically adjusts the 4:3 picture so it fills your 16:9 TV. However, when you tune to an HDTV channel, the HR2x simply passes the image as it is broadcast by the station. And there’s the “rub” – even though you are watching an HDTV channel, the actual program content they are showing may have originally been recorded in a 4:3 aspect ration and not 16:9. In this case, the broadcast station has to choose how they want to fit that into their 16:9 HDTV broadcast. They may choose to zoom it, stretch it, or just put in the pillar bars. Regardless of what they do, your HR2x has no control – it can only send that image to your TV as broadcast.

By the way, different HDTV stations do different things. Most of the newer programs on the major networks (NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX) are being filmed in 16:9 HDTV. Examples include American Idol, Law & Order, CSI, etc. Some programs, like Deal or No Deal and local news segments, are still in SDTV and thus have the pillar bars added. Some of the “cable” networks like TLC and Discovery take their older 4:3 content and do a decent job with a combination of zoom and stretch that results in very narrow pillar bars, very little loss of top and bottom edges due to cropping, and very little distortion from stretching. Some stations like TNT-HD do a horrible job of putting 4:3 content into a 16:9 broadcast by stretching it and using the “fishbowl” effect. It’s especially aggravating when they do this on the “pan and scan: 4:3 version of a theatrical movie that was originally filmed in 16:9 widescreen mode.

I hope this helps explain why you see what you do! I know I rambled on, but I hear enough people talking about this that it seemed like it needed the explanation.


Excellent explanation.Now i know why i am having these issues. Thanks for all your help.
D* HR24-500
DVR R16-300
2 Std. D11-100
Samsung HL-R6167w TV
Onkyo Receiver HT-R340
Samsung DVD-HD 850
Panasonic DMR-ES 35V Combo




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