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DBSTalk First Look: Slimline3 ODU


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#161 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 08:17 PM

On the top is a CalAmp (Model 151647) sitting above an Eagle Aspen (shows SL3PIG-P on label). The two are "back to back" in the second photo where you can see that the SL3 99/101/103 lnb isn't as wide. It's just under 2.5" wide whereas the CalAmp is over 3" (measuring the inside cover width, not the outer plastic shield which is nearly 4" wide). Overall the SL3 is 6 5/8" wide and the CalAmp is a little over 16".

Attached Thumbnails

  • lnbs_side_by_side.jpg
  • lnbs_back_to_back.jpg


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#162 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 09:11 PM

Nice set of comparisons, tadfad. Thanks.

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#163 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 01:37 AM

On the left is a "Triple Sat" 101/110/119 Thomson Model No. 150946 LNB (also referred to as a Phase III 18x20 oval dish lnb), and on the right is an Eagle Aspen SL3. In the second photo is a bottom view with the same 2 lnbs back to back.

They are very similar in size. It's difficult to tell from the photos, but the rear casing of the SL3 is slightly wider than the triple sat's, while the triple sat's casing is about 1/2" taller/higher than the SL3. The feed horns themselves (the metal portion) extend out roughly the same distance, but the plastic covers are distinctly different with the SL3 having an upper plastic shield that extends out which is more visible in photo #4 of post #131 of this thread.

Perhaps most interesting is that the feed horn openings of the SL3 for 99 & 103 are oval in shape. This is better seen in photos 3 & 4 of post #131 of this thread. Whereas the triple sat's are circular as are the 99 & 103 horns of the Cal Amp 5 lnb as seen in photo 2 of post 161 of this thread.

In other words, the 99 & 103 feed horn openings on the SL3 are taller but narrower in comparison to the CalAmp 5 lnb. I would describe the openings as football shaped. I haven't seen any comments about this apparent new shape, but it is visible in the post 131 photos.

Are there 4 different makes of the 5 lnb and does each have circular shaped openings for the 99 & 103 feed horns? Could an oval shaped feed horn produce better signal reception with the current slimline dish?

Or this has me wondering if this is an indication that a future slimline 3 dish will be slightly taller than the current slimline 5 dish and less wide than the current model. It seems like you could gain the reflector area needed for ka by going a bit taller while cutting the width considerably since the beam angle for 99 to 103 is narrower vs. 99 to 119. Plus it looks like the narrow width of the new 99 & 103 feed horns would not benefit from signal reflecting from the outside edges at the far widths of the 32" oval reflector. I am not an engineer (perhaps one could comment) but I will try blocking the outside edges of the slimline dish to see how it affects signal strength on 99 & 103 with an SL3 installed.

Also, has anyone noticed that the graphic representation for the dish change in setup if you select slimline 3 vs. slimline 5? Not only is it a different looking lnb (obviously) but the dish looks to be a different shape as well. I hadn't noticed this before, but never really paid attention before either. Perhaps the graphic changed with a software update? Is DirecTV tipping their hand or is it just a combination of my imagination & wishful thinking on my part for a smaller dish that is shaped specifically for 99/101/103?

By the way, does anyone know the size/specs on the sl3s lnb (slimline 3 swm)? How many tuners will it support? Will it be made by Eagle Aspen as well? Will anyone else produce either version of the SL3? WNC, CalAmp?

Finally, the SL3 is noticeably lighter than the triple sat lnb and considerably lighter than the 5lnb.

Attached Thumbnails

  • lnbs_triple_sl3.jpg
  • lnbs_bottom.jpg


#164 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 02:51 AM

No .. there is a key in the LNB assembly that won't let you mate the wrong dish to the LNB. If you have the Sidecar, then this LNB will not work. You would need to get the Slimline antenna.


Both the SL3 and 5lnb will slide into the arm of a "Triple Sat" 101/110/119 Phase III 18x20 oval dish. Photo 1 attached is a CalAmp 5lnb inserted into an RCA Phase III dish. In photo 2 you can see the bottom key of the 5lnb as well as the mounting holes. The SL3 has a similar key. The Slimline AU-9 dish arm has a matching slot that the key slides into. However, with the Phase III arm, the holes line up such that the mounting bolts can be passed through to secure the lnb with the key flush against the arm rather than fully inserted. A single bolt passing through is shown in Photo 3.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 5lnb_phaseIII.jpg
  • lnb_holes.jpg
  • 5lnb_inserted_into_phaseIII_arm.jpg


#165 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 04:01 AM

This will be a home brew project but I'm going to build a 99/101/103 dish with the smallest reflector I can get, I have one out of a tracker unit thats around 12"x 15" square just for starters.

It will only be for good weather (clear sky).

I will post pictures and signal levels if successful. :)


As a follow up, Matt posted the above early on (back in July) in this thread and took the lead on this and should be credited for doing some impressive pioneer work. Plus he has inspired others to also test, contribute, and further the project - myself included. Hope these pictures are of help/interest to others.

If you are interested in a smaller / more portable (rv/tailgate) 99/103 capable dish , it's well worth checking out the thread Matt started entitled "Experimental Small Slimline3 Dish": http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=139735

In photo 1 attached, I am hoping to replace the dish on the right with the dish on the left (or one similar to it once more testing has been done) for portable rv / tailgate use. On the right is a Slimline AU-9 with 5 lnb mounted on a portable tripod with adjustable legs. On the left is a Phase III 18x20 oval dish with an SL3 lnb. In comparison, the "Slimline" hardly looks slim. That's why a homebrew experimental "slimmerline 3" is being tested.

In addition, if you note the differing angles of my two dishes in the photos above, you can see why it wouldn't work even if you broke the key. The angles are all wrong, so you'd be reflecting towards a point that doesn't even hit the LNB assembly.


Yes, the photos in post 150 demonstrate the angle difference well - Thanks. Also, this was an interesting analysis/calculation:

Doug's picture in post 138 showing both the AT9 and AU9 clearly shows that the LNB offset angle is very different, so that the Slimline dish surface is tilted higher, which reduces wind loading. Both are pointed to exactly the same position in the sky from a signal standpoint. My measurements of the LNB offset angle shows 23 degrees for the AT9 and 16 degrees for the AU9. This results in the Slimline dish surface being tilted 7 degrees higher in elevation, while still pointing (electromagnetic signal) to exactly the same position in the sky.


The above led me to modify the lnb arm mouth of the phase III to be able to tilt the lnb to a different angle toward the phase III dish and hold it at that better angle first with wire then self tapping screws. I also cut a slot in the arm for key insertion to try to adjust focal length as well as the angle. I can post pictures of the modifications in the experimental thread linked above since that is veering off topic for this thread. But for this thread, photo 2 attached may be of interest. It shows in an overhead shot the size difference of the dishes and lnbs and in particular, the longer arm length of the AU-9 vs. the Phase III. Measured from the base of the front of the dish, the AU-9 arm extends 18 5/8" while the Phase III length is 13 3/8". So in addition to the differing focal angle, the focal length is significantly different as well between the 2 dishes.

You can also see that the 99/101/103 lnb differs between the SL3 and 5lnb and how the oval 99/103 feed horns of the SL3 are oriented toward the dish.

Attached Thumbnails

  • slimmerline3_vs_slimline5.jpg
  • slimmerline3_vs_slimline5_overhead.jpg


#166 OFFLINE   br408408

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 04:47 AM

Perhaps most interesting is that the feed horn openings of the SL3 for 99 & 103 are oval in shape. This is better seen in photos 3 & 4 of post #131 of this thread. Whereas the triple sat's are circular as are the 99 & 103 horns of the Cal Amp 5 lnb as seen in photo 2 of post 161 of this thread.

In other words, the 99 & 103 feed horn openings on the SL3 are taller but narrower in comparison to the CalAmp 5 lnb. I would describe the openings as football shaped.


I have an Eagle Aspen 5 LNB unit and the center 3 feed horns are identical to your Eagle Aspen SL3. I looked at you photos and then went out and looked at my dish (it's only 7 feet of the ground...not on the roof). They are also oval. By eye, I would say that you could swap the plastic cap between the two.

#167 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 07:34 AM

The SL3 is physically the same as an SL5 with the 110W and 119W horns chopped off. If you think about it, it has to be. The oval apertures have more to do with the fact that the satellites are so close together.

Making the dish taller would reduce the twisting load in a wind storm, but it would significantly increase the lever arm when it comes to tearing the dish off of its mount.

#168 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 07:46 AM

The above led me to modify the lnb arm mouth of the phase III to be able to tilt the lnb to a different angle toward the phase III dish and hold it at that better angle first with wire then self tapping screws. I also cut a slot in the arm for key insertion to try to adjust focal length as well as the angle. I can post pictures of the modifications in the experimental thread linked above since that is veering off topic for this thread. But for this thread, photo 2 attached may be of interest. It shows in an overhead shot the size difference of the dishes and lnbs and in particular, the longer arm length of the AU-9 vs. the Phase III. Measured from the base of the front of the dish, the AU-9 arm extends 18 5/8" while the Phase III length is 13 3/8". So in addition to the differing focal angle, the focal length is significantly different as well between the 2 dishes.

You can also see that the 99/101/103 lnb differs between the SL3 and 5lnb and how the oval 99/103 feed horns of the SL3 are oriented toward the dish.



Please do post pixs.
I too noticed the "look" of the Ka lnb's on the phase III arm appears off. I extended the LNB out to 18+ inches and brought in 110 and 119 but still with trouble getting good signals on 99 & 103 at the same time.
Whats the best you've got so far??

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#169 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 08:05 AM

Please do post pixs.
I too noticed the "look" of the Ka lnb's on the phase III arm appears off. I extended the LNB out to 18+ inches and brought in 110 and 119 but still with trouble getting good signals on 99 & 103 at the same time.

The problem is that you can't change the focus of the reflector by making the arm longer. The more distant focus is required to direct the adjacent signals at the desired angle into the segregated feed horns.

A paper simulation would pretty readily show that cutting and pasting isn't going to work. A dish with a similar focal distance must be used to direct the signal down the throat.

#170 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 08:28 AM

The problem is that you can't change the focus of the reflector by making the arm longer. The more distant focus is required to direct the adjacent signals at the desired angle into the segregated feed horns.

A paper simulation would pretty readily show that cutting and pasting isn't going to work. A dish with a similar focal distance must be used to direct the signal down the throat.


I agree however was attemting to "adust" the site of the lnb on the phase III arm to see if some improvement could be made. It was variable and an optimum point was obtained but was not adequate for long term usage.
My next variable is the angle of the lnb on the arm and the dish. Maybe some adequate compromise can be obtained. It is clear that under good sky conditions a smaller dish can get good Ka signals. Several of us particularly for temporary setups such as tailgating wound relish a smaller, easier to carry dish even if setup was a little more precise and signal stength not perfect (ie: >90's on all sats)

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#171 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 01:46 PM

The SL3 is physically the same as an SL5 with the 110W and 119W horns chopped off. If you think about it, it has to be. The oval apertures have more to do with the fact that the satellites are so close together.


harsh, I believe you would have to agree that the CalAmp 5lnb model 151647 is physically different than the Eagle Aspen SL3 when it comes to the 99/103 feed horns. Both the width and shape of the openings are different. Even the 101 opening and horn is different but I'm more interested in the ka horns. The CalAmp 5lnb has circular openings for 99 & 103 which are visible through the cover. Take a look at photo2 from post 161 in full size:

http://www.dbstalk.c...57&d=1222653765

Perhaps this design difference is part of the reason for the CalAmp's poor reported performance/reputation. For example, see:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=138309

Anyone know if there is a CalAmp model that replaced the 151647?

I have an Eagle Aspen 5 LNB unit and the center 3 feed horns are identical to your Eagle Aspen SL3. I looked at you photos and then went out and looked at my dish (it's only 7 feet of the ground...not on the roof). They are also oval. By eye, I would say that you could swap the plastic cap between the two.


br, thanks for confirming that when it comes to the Eagle Aspen 5LNB it has an identical 99/101/103 LNB to the Eagle Aspen SL3. What about the other 5lnb makes? Can anyone comment as to the design of the WNC? Is the WNC 99/101/103 feed horn identical to the SL3? Andrew?

Making the dish taller would reduce the twisting load in a wind storm, but it would significantly increase the lever arm when it comes to tearing the dish off of its mount.


A taller dish than the slimline already exists:
AT-9: 25.5 h x 29.5 w
AU-9: 22.5 h x 32.5 w

As discussed in this thread, the SL3 has a different look angle of the LNB than the AT-9 (see calculations posted by billcushman) which reduces wind load.

Can anyone confirm if the AT-9 lnb has oval or circular feed horns for 99 & 103?

#172 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 03:25 PM

Please do post pixs.
I too noticed the "look" of the Ka lnb's on the phase III arm appears off. I extended the LNB out to 18+ inches and brought in 110 and 119 but still with trouble getting good signals on 99 & 103 at the same time.
Whats the best you've got so far??

Doctor j


Doctor j, my initial testing was done with the CalAmp 5lnb, but because of the design difference for the 99 & 103 horns vs. the SL3, I'm not sure how relevant my tests are for other lnbs. Plus, the CalAmp is supposedly reported as having the worst signal strengths of the available 5 lnb models so combining the CalAmp and the Phase III would have poor figures in theory. That's why I'm hoping to get a better understanding of the differences in the LNBs through this thread.

I can tell you though that the Cal Amp feed horns pointed too high from optimal on the phase III dish when the lnb was bolted into the regular mounts. Still though I got workable results with steady audio/video although the 99/103 balance issue is a clear hurdle.

By angling the lnb more downward (pointing more toward the center of the dish) the strength jumped up. The signal was being reflected more down the throat. You can do this by pulling the lnb out ever so slightly from flush at the bottom and using hand pressure to adjust the angle and you'll see the signal meter jump up immediately as you do it. I haven't been too worried about drilling into my CalAmp 5lnb base mount to experiment but it will only take so many holes so I used wire and other methods to keep it in place. I have been more gentle with the SL3 since it's a keeper.

Plus I have been bending around the mouth of the phase III lnb arm to adjust angle and focal length. Likewise with the dish, putting pressure on the outside edges of the phase III dish to increase the curvature to compensate for the 99/103 imbalance while watching the signal meter. May need to get a fresh phase III or my results may be atypical and difficult to duplicate. Luckily people are giving away/dumping the phase III when they mount a slimline.

So another way I experimented was to turn the lnb completely upside down and hold it steady as best I could by hand to find the sweet spot in terms of look angle and focal length. Of course it reverses the 99 & 103 reception, but you don't have the arm in the way and are free to move the lnb around. but you do end up seemingly blocking signal as well since the lower portion of the lnb (where the cables connect) gets in the way of the incoming beam before it's reflected. I tried going to a longer focal length to avoid interference but that quickly dropped signal even with the better look angle. Even with blocking of signal, you still can "freehand" experiment to get an idea of where the sweet spot is. It helps to look at the triple sat head design as well for the throat angle to try to replicate.

With the 18 5/8" arm on the AU-9 the lnb isn't in the way. But with the 5lnb on the shorter Phase III arm, I'm wondering if the extra 10" width of the 5lnb vs. the SL3 blocks some of the incoming beam. Am meaning to test that by putting a 5" wide metal object on the side of the SL3 (to duplicate the 5lnb extension) and watching the meter. Also meaning to test covering/blocking the sides of the AU-9 with the SL3 mounted while watching the signal meter to see how much of the dish is actually reflecting into the 99 & 103 horns. In other words, if I block the outer 3" (for example) of the AU-9 how much, if any, does that affect signal strength.

Once the sweet spot is found through testing hopefully there is an existing arm or Dish that's just right or easily modified. I started looking at arms & mounts from Dish Network and the bolt pattern appears to be the same - the 4 flat carriage bolts that mount the arm to the dish.

Or perhaps a universal bracket/magic bracket that will keep the lnb in exactly the right spot and angle. The combined 99/101/103 throat is 2 1/8" wide at its narrowest point and about 5/8" high. Don't know if there is a bracket holder that will clamp over this size horn.

I did get my hands on a Dish 500. It is the same height as the AU-9 - 22.5"high. But the Dish 500 is 20.5" wide. Looks like the phase III lnb arm should mount to it. The Dish arm has a Y adapter on the end so I'd need to modify it or get one of the other Dish brackets that would accept the SL3 if I want to try using the Dish arm with the Dish 500 with the SL3. The adapter bracket that mounts on the end is easy to change out since instead of being a 1 piece arm like with DirecTV models, for Dish there is an arm that the bracket mounts to. Then the lnb slides into the bracket. Probably better explained with photos.

I also have a para todas dish that I can get my hands on. It's oval 18x24 roughly. I don't know the arm length, but it does have a bracket mount. This is the model where the separate 101/110/119 lnbs are mounted to the bracket. Used for the "Sat C" kit. That arm has tilt and can likely be fitted with a different bracket.

Tilting the skew had a big impact as well on the 99/103 balance. Could be that the 5lnb was getting out of the way of the incoming beam as it was tilted - need to test that further. In other words, tilting one way got the lnb out of the way of the 103 beam. Tilting the other way got the lnb out of the way for the 99 beam. In other words, tilting the 119 and 110 heads down may increase the received beam. Don't know if that's the case or if it's simply the shape of the reflector. Obviously the narrower SL3 would make a difference if it is the case. But my comparing a SL3 to a CalAmp signal strength on a phase III probably isn't a fair comparison. Need to get a baseline comparison with the AU-9 first which I haven't done yet since the whole goal is to be more portable and avoid having to cart around the heavier, larger AU-9 along with it's heavier supporting tripod.

I could post further comments and pictures, but I'm veering too much into the experimental topic when there is another thread. Doctor J - I will post there with more and see you there.

However, for this thread, which is probably more read/watched than the experimental one, I am hoping to to get more feedback on the 5lnb designs (WNC, Andrew, AT-9) in comparison to the SL3. THANKS - Tad.

#173 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 05:37 PM

br, thanks for confirming that when it comes to the Eagle Aspen 5LNB it has an identical 99/101/103 LNB to the Eagle Aspen SL3. What about the other 5lnb makes? Can anyone comment as to the design of the WNC? Is the WNC 99/101/103 feed horn identical to the SL3? Andrew?


In trying to answer my own earlier posted question, I did find some posted photos of the 5 lnb Eagle Aspen, WNC, and Andrew:
http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=108918
http://lh6.ggpht.com...88/DSCN2623.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com...88/DSCN2624.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com...88/DSCN2622.JPG

The shape of the feed horns looks physically a bit different for each, although it does appear nothing is different between the Eagle Aspen SL3 vs. the Eagle Aspen 5 lnb as far as the 99/101/103 lnb.

However, I can't tell if any of the other makes have circular horn openings for 99 & 103 like the CalAmp as shown in post 161 (above) of this thread. The white covers keep you from seeing inside on the WNC & Andrew. Clearly the Eagle Aspen has oval openings though. I can't tell on the AT-9 sidecar (circular vs. oval) for 99 & 103 either:
http://www.solidsign...9_det_zoomA.gif

I did find some photos of the differing inside circuitry for the CalAmp & WNC:

http://www.dbstalk.c...6&postcount=275
http://www.dbstalk.c...1&postcount=321

In addition to the link in post 171 of this thread, here is another thread on issues with the CalAmp 5lnb:
http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=106894

5 LNB Comparisons are also made in this long thread:
http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=104141

Readers with CalAmps may be looking to this thread thinking about replacing their CalAmp. If they are going to replace it, why not the SL3 vs any other lnb presuming they don't want 110/119 and aren't wanting to wait for the SL3S.

I have seen more than 1 post saying that it is recommended (per instructional videos) to realign after swapping lnbs on the slimline. Is that the consensus? If so, why would it be the case unless the lnbs were slightly physically different? This would seem to make sense unless you were swapping an Eagle Aspen 5 LNB for an Eagle Aspen SL3.

So my question is this: Is it a fair comparison to peak a slimline with a CalAmp 5lnb, measure signal, then swap to the Eagle Aspen SL3 and measure signal without realigning? Otherwise you introduce the variable of the alignment as well as the different LNB. I suppose you could peak with the SL3 first, then swap to the CalAmp and measure without realigning as a second test for a more thorough comparison.

I may be willing to do this and post results if anyone is interested but as I mentioned in my previous post, I am more interested in trying to get away from the slimline 32" dish as a portable and go to something smaller. But others may be simply looking to simply replace their CalAmp and swap LNB's. If they were to do that and end up with the same strengths (due to lack of realignment) that may be something they would want to know in advance. In other words, perhaps the SL3 needs some realignment to outperform an existing CalAmp and it's more involved than just a lnb swap. The difference in the lnb size & shape between the CalAmp 5 lnb and SL3 (as I have posted) has me thinking this may be the case though but I haven't tested yet on the slimline. Any thoughts/suggestions on how to make the best comparison would be appreciated although I prefer to only try things/experiment on the tripod dish and not mess with the rooftop dish and interrupt reception/change alignment.

I do at the moment have my portable tripod and slimline pointing out the window next to an H21 and television. I don't have line of sight out the window to 119, but that shouldn't matter.

#174 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 07:21 PM

Tried briefly again tonight with phase III and WNC 5 LNB head. ( I have an SL3 but haven't worked with it yet).
Tried changing dish angle up or down.
Struck by difficulty in getting 99 & 103 together. Even significant differences in odd/even transponders.
I can get all channels but 99/103 odd/evens range from 50's to 70's on H-23 receiver.
Very sensitive. 1/4 inch may send signal from 60 to 0.
Not what I want but I agree goal to get more portable "tailgate" Ka dish is a desire!!

Doctor j

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#175 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 12:00 AM

harsh, I believe you would have to agree that the CalAmp 5lnb model 151647 is physically different than the Eagle Aspen SL3 when it comes to the 99/103 feed horns. Both the width and shape of the openings are different. Even the 101 opening and horn is different but I'm more interested in the ka horns.

Regardless of the outward appearance of the two LNB assemblies, they are geometrically and functionally identical as far as the Ka horns and 101 horn. We know this because they are interchangeable.

#176 OFFLINE   Tebbens

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 02:10 PM

Just spoke to SolidSignal.... they are suppose have the SL3 in stock at the end of this month.

#177 OFFLINE   tkrandall

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 02:19 PM

Just spoke to SolidSignal.... they are suppose have the SL3 in stock at the end of this month.


I emailed them last week and they told me "very soon"

#178 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 03:05 PM

Just spoke to SolidSignal.... they are suppose have the SL3 in stock at the end of this month.


Thanks .. Folks will find this helpful I'm sure.
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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#179 OFFLINE   HDTVFreak07

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 09:04 AM

I called DirecTV technical support and specifically asked for a SL3 replacement because I have no need for sats 110 and 119. Also specifically said that I am having problems with the dish itself, not cable, bbc's or anything else. I have been having troubles with pixelating on my tv's. They transferred me to a technician specialist and they're still clueless about the newest SL3!!! Are they out yet? A technician said that DirecTV is recalling all H20-600 so they're shipping me a replacement receiver. I told the person on the phone that even when I had HR20-100 in this house (particularly this one room), I have had nothing but problems. How in the whole wide world can I ever get SL3???? Any suggestions? Solid Signal only shows that I have to get 12 pack?

#180 OFFLINE   skylox

skylox

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Joined: Aug 10, 2008

Posted 07 October 2008 - 09:11 AM

I purchased an SL3, just the LNB unit, off of Ebay. It was $50 shipped.
Works great.
Here is one
http://cgi.ebay.com/...id=p3286.c0.m14
HR22-100 x2 (HDMI), New Slimline 3LNB, TVs: 42" Vizio 1080p LCD and 32" 720p JVC LCD, Sony 5.1 HTIB, PS3, Wii, Xbox360 Elite, 2 Harmony Remote
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