Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

OTA Channel Guide Issue Thread


  • Please log in to reply
616 replies to this topic

#541 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 18,739 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:51 AM

You essentially have to be looking for stations that share both the number and radio frequency of the station you're trying to pick up. Unfortunately, I can't find a channel 35 in or around Boise so I can't tell you what the radio frequency is. There is a low power station located at radio frequency 35, but it is digital channel 17. It looks like the channel went digital a little over a month ago.

Could you offer a callsign (ie KYUU)?

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#542 OFFLINE   lokar

lokar

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 672 posts
Joined: Oct 07, 2006

Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:44 AM

You essentially have to be looking for stations that share both the number and radio frequency of the station you're trying to pick up. Unfortunately, I can't find a channel 35 in or around Boise so I can't tell you what the radio frequency is. There is a low power station located at radio frequency 35, but it is digital channel 17. It looks like the channel went digital a little over a month ago.

Could you offer a callsign (ie KYUU)?


KYUU is their call sign, it's odd that they list themselves as 2-2 and seem to be doing their best to keep their new HD transmitter a secret. I did some research on the FCC site and found a secondary market that works for me to get this channel (99201 - Spokane, WA for any other Boiseans wanting to receive this channel).

#543 OFFLINE   GP245

GP245

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 268 posts
Joined: Aug 17, 2006

Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:52 AM

Here's info about KYUU, courtesy of rabbitears.info


http://www.rabbitear...h&callsign=KYUU

#544 OFFLINE   jamieh1

jamieh1

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,390 posts
Joined: May 01, 2003

Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:01 PM

WEPX DT 38.1, 38.2, 38.3 (ION) has changed freq channel #s.

It moved from ch 51 to 26. Now Directv over the air tuners not getting the signal.


Greenville NC market

#545 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 18,739 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:21 PM

KYUU is their call sign, it's odd that they list themselves as 2-2 and seem to be doing their best to keep their new HD transmitter a secret.

So they're neither 35 nor 17 but channel 2 instead?

This is why callsigns are so important (although this station may have changed those a time or two as well).

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#546 OFFLINE   lokar

lokar

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 672 posts
Joined: Oct 07, 2006

Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:01 AM

So they're neither 35 nor 17 but channel 2 instead?

This is why callsigns are so important (although this station may have changed those a time or two as well).


It's a very odd channel, all of the following is OTA only as D* doesn't carry this channel in any form. When channel 2 (KBOI) got the rights to the CW earlier this year, they started showing it in 480i as subchannel 2-2 and also aired more local news on it, as local stations love to do. Their on-air IDs said they were KYUU digital 2-2. Last month, they rearranged frequencies and started a separate transmitter for KYUU. Currently KYUU can still be seen in SD on 2-2 but it can now be seen in HD on 35-1, which still identifies itself on air as 2-2.

I would have no idea this channel was even in HD except that when they changed frequencies around, I started getting KYUU HD on 2-1, which was KBOI and I couldn't get KBOI OTA anymore. D* really needs to unlock the OTA tuners in HR units, this kind of thing is very confusing and will probably get them a lot more calls than they want to deal with as it sounds like it is happening a lot across the country.

#547 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 15,125 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:14 PM

It's a very odd channel, all of the following is OTA only as D* doesn't carry this channel in any form. When channel 2 (KBOI) got the rights to the CW earlier this year, they started showing it in 480i as subchannel 2-2 and also aired more local news on it, as local stations love to do. Their on-air IDs said they were KYUU digital 2-2. Last month, they rearranged frequencies and started a separate transmitter for KYUU. Currently KYUU can still be seen in SD on 2-2 but it can now be seen in HD on 35-1, which still identifies itself on air as 2-2.

I would have no idea this channel was even in HD except that when they changed frequencies around, I started getting KYUU HD on 2-1, which was KBOI and I couldn't get KBOI OTA anymore. D* really needs to unlock the OTA tuners in HR units, this kind of thing is very confusing and will probably get them a lot more calls than they want to deal with as it sounds like it is happening a lot across the country.


Tuners in anything earlier than the HR34 will likely never be unlocked.

And channels often change frequency, but prefer to use the same channel numbers, remapping their channel, so that people don't have to go searching for the channel after they change frequency. In theory that makes it easier, and often times it does. Just not in this case unfortunately. Half the major stations here in Los Angeles are actually transmitted on different frequencies than their channel numbers they go by.

The FCC keeps an actual list of actual frequencies being used, and what their call sign is, and I think also what channel number they are remapped too. You may want to look for it.

#548 OFFLINE   levibluewa

levibluewa

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 604 posts
  • LocationWA, OR, CA
Joined: Aug 13, 2005

Posted 27 October 2012 - 05:10 PM

Sometime between yesterday (10/22/12) late morning and this (10/23/12) morning, DirecTV changed the guide parameters on the local Seattle, WA, channel 22 subchannels designation, from 22-3 (and others) to 25-3, resulting in that channel no longer being received (there is no channel 25 in our DMA).

What is interesting is that channel 22 is owned by the FOX affiliate in town (channel 13) and ever since they first went up on uhf 18 digital to originally do HD broadcasts (since the last of the digital changeover they've moved everything back to VHF13) they have been using a subchan (22-2) to 'simulcast' the FOX HD programming (the station is the only Seattle affiliate to NOT have a broadcast tower in downtown Seattle), so it helped them 'cover' the main metro area.

That subchan has not been affected. But at least two other SD ones have been changed to the aforementioned 25-x designation.

This has been reported to DirecTV upper technical management today. We'll see how long it takes them to 'change things back' the way it was, where it worked for years.

Exactly how or why it got changed should, to the management, prove enlightening, IF they're really interested in 'no mistakes'.


Discovered my email ended up in the junk mail folder. A follow-up phone call seems to have fixed the issue.

#549 OFFLINE   1948GG

1948GG

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 897 posts
Joined: Aug 04, 2007

Posted 29 October 2012 - 02:31 AM

Discovered my email ended up in the junk mail folder. A follow-up phone call seems to have fixed the issue.


Partially, then the wacked it again. I gave the engineer at ch22 a call Friday, and by Saturday morning it was fixed. The two subchannels that were affected were 22-1 (the main signal!) as well as 22-3, with of course (!) 22-2 (the fox13 clone) unaffected. I watched and recorded several things from 22-3 on Saturday, went into the guide and 'populated' some things I wanted to record all this week, and thought everything was good to go.

Then this evening I did my weekly 'due diligence' on recording stuff for this next week, making sure all the 'series' stuff was all still there, and the thing I have to manually (or I should say, won't for whatever reason do series recording for whatever reason, that's another 'ticket' I have in at the programming 'wizards' (read: idiots) at DirecTV.

But the 22-3 subchannel has now been changed BACK to 25-3, and I get the 962 (or whatever) 'signal not receivable' or whatever the error message is.
22-1 is still right and working, as is 22-2.

The really weird thing is that if you go to the off-air signal strength screen, the channels are listed CORRECTLY, and you get a nice big fat green bar (90+%) on the test.

I'm sure the 'programmer' is.... starts with an 'i'. I'm sure, like others have noted here, is 'confused' because channel 22 is ACTUALLY broadcasting on rf frequency 25. And they can't quite 'fugger out' why. A quick look at the actual FCC document database for the station would quickly tell them what's going on, but that would require actual English Language knowledge, plus of course the ability to look up the data. Two strikes.

What's interesting is that I 'programmed' a bunch of stuff Saturday when things were working that are still in the 'things to record' on the DVR, with the 'proper' channel designation and such, although in the guide that channel no longer exists.

Will it blow up come tomorrow? Will it by some means actually tune the proper channel and record? Or will it be a blank screen. Or will the guide data change yet again overnight...?

This stuff is as simple as keeping a car between the white strips on the roadway. Of course, the folks they have doing this may not know what a roadway OR a car is.

#550 OFFLINE   1948GG

1948GG

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 897 posts
Joined: Aug 04, 2007

Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:15 PM

This morning, the programs that were set on Saturday (when the listings were correct and working) went off, and recorded okay, even though the guide listing is STILL wrong and won't 'tune' the channel!

I have 3 dvr's (1/700, 2/100's) and a -100/receiver. Only the -100 dvr's are listing the channel guide 'wrong', the older -700 and -100/rec are listing the channels in the guide 'correctly'. Firmware programming incorrect or out of wack? Nah!

I still have a 'ticket' open at DirecTV (although I doubt that that 'system' actually 'works' and the local station engineer has my phone number. I'll wait until tomorrow and see what happens, I have a 'strip' of programs that are in the record que I set up on Saturday, I'll see if they continue to record tomorrow, and start giving folks a round-robin call with what has happened and etc.

Obviously, DirecTV doesn't have a real grip on any of these OTA integration problems, and maybe doesn't have anyone really in charge.

#551 OFFLINE   1948GG

1948GG

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 897 posts
Joined: Aug 04, 2007

Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:00 AM

Okay, so things are still where they were, the -100 dvr is still recording a channel that 'doesn't exist' and won't 'tune' in the guide, etc. etc.

Called DirecTV and 2nd/3rd level had me jump the box through multiple hoops, none of which 'cured' the problem, which is now (yet again) escalated to what, 3rd level?

So I'm waiting for the problem to be 'cured' yet again, they possibly to come back a day later, just like the last time, except maybe with the added 'fun' of having different models react differently to whatever DirecTV is doing.

#552 OFFLINE   jamieh1

jamieh1

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,390 posts
Joined: May 01, 2003

Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:13 PM

WEPX-DT 38.1, 38.2, 38.3 has just changed from its digital channel of 51 to channel 26.

Now cant receive it on my over the air tuners on Directv.

#553 OFFLINE   1948GG

1948GG

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 897 posts
Joined: Aug 04, 2007

Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:04 PM

After several weeks of complaints (to DirecTV and a local broadcaster), and jumping through satellite settings hoops several times (at the direction of DirecTV CSR's), I finally got some time to do some basic troubleshooting of my own in an attempt to fix the guide OTA errors on my two HR20-100's.

BTW, in going through all those hoops, the only thing that managed to change (for more than one day, i.e., it corrected to showing and tuning properly for about 24hrs once two weeks ago), was that it actually went BACKWARDS, getting worse instead of better.

So today, I wrote up a plan to try some things out, the first on the list was changing my OTA zip code from where I live to the zip code right next to me (both are in the same DMA by a good hundred miles on all sides).

Lo and behold, it 'fixed' the guide problems, and tunes the OTA channel(s) that it previously both listed incorrectly (listing the channel as a 25-x instead of 22-x) and of course wouldn't tune up (getting a error code).

The upshot is, that DirecTV has incorrect listings for the zip code I live in and put into the dvr. This is a VERY small zip code, that is completely surrounded by the zip code I changed to (and works) today.

In short, poor programming by DirecTV (once again), and a failure by management to check the work done by the drone types.

I would suggest that those having problems with the OTA reception and guide listing try this 'trick', by picking a zip code close by and giving it a try. What's interesting is that there are other 'minor' things still wrong with the guide data (one stations is no longer listed as an OTA channel although it is carried by the DirecTV satellites!). Luckily, that station is too far from my physical location to be receivable, so it's 'no big deal', but interesting none the less.

#554 OFFLINE   twiseguy

twiseguy

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 165 posts
Joined: Jan 31, 2011

Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:19 PM

I would like to know if there is a zip code that would show both Cleveland & Youngstown DMA channels, that way I could use the secondary zip code to fill in stations that DTV never bothered to add to their database.

Like Cleveland WJW 8.2 Antenna TV. I use the secondary zip of High Point NC for secondary DMA, because WGPH Antenna TV 8.2 IS in the DTV database.

Both stations are even owned by the same company (Local TV LLC)

Go figure, not listed in the 16th largest DMA database, but is in Greensboro-High Point, NC (47) database.

#555 OFFLINE   KyL416

KyL416

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,929 posts
  • LocationTobyhanna, PA
Joined: Nov 10, 2005

Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:35 PM

The local listing isn't zip code specific, they just have a blanket list for each DMA. Every zipcode in a given DMA gets the same list of channels. You can see the list in the Domestic file in the Transponder Maps thread:
http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=206618

You can try complaining to the station, but DirecTV hasn't really added any new subchannels to the list in ages. The owner of my local CW and MyNet affiliates is still trying to get them to add their subchannels that were launched over 2 years ago.

#556 ONLINE   Gary Toma

Gary Toma

    UNIX

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,870 posts
Joined: Mar 22, 2006

Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

I would like to know if there is a zip code that would show both Cleveland & Youngstown DMA channels, that way I could use the secondary zip code to fill in stations that DTV never bothered to add to their database.


You can do your own homework here: Go to the TPN MAP thread in the "Tips and Resources Forum". The first post of this thread always includes the most current Excel of complete data. One 'tab' of the Excel is "OTA".

That OTA tab lists the grand total OTA database. As provided, it is in Channel Number sequence. So sort the entire sheet by 'NAME', column b. That will quickly tell you what markets your stations of interest appear in. The Market number represents each DMA and the Notes will also tell you what DMA (cities) you have found.

Then just use usps.com to convert those DMAs (cities) to ZIP codes for you.

You don't need to ask - YOU become the expert!


#557 OFFLINE   twiseguy

twiseguy

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 165 posts
Joined: Jan 31, 2011

Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:20 AM

[quote name='gct']You can do your own homework here: Go to the TPN MAP thread in the "Tips and Resources Forum". The first post of this thread always includes the most current Excel of complete data. One 'tab' of the Excel is "OTA".

That OTA tab lists the grand total OTA database. As provided, it is in Channel Number sequence. So sort the entire sheet by 'NAME', column b. That will quickly tell you what markets your stations of interest appear in. The Market number represents each DMA and the Notes will also tell you what DMA (cities) you have found.


I`ve done all that stuff before, but no zip where DTV carries both Youngstown & Cleveland as the same market for satellite delivered signal.

That`s what I was hoping to find, so I could use the AM21 secondary zip for Greensboro, High Point NC, which carries Antenna TV 8.2 on the database.

I did find a few zip codes in Portage & Mahoning County OH. that claim DTV carries Sportstime Ohio, FSNOhio & Root Pittsburgh as the RSN`s, though.

BTW, DTV DID ADD Cleveland WEWS 5.2 LiveWell about a year after Cleveland WJW 8.2 Antenna TV went up and AFTER DTV told me there wasn`t enough database to add channels. I don`t put a lot into much of anything DTV says anymore, I prefer to look here for actual answers.

#558 OFFLINE   KyL416

KyL416

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,929 posts
  • LocationTobyhanna, PA
Joined: Nov 10, 2005

Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:04 PM

I`ve done all that stuff before, but no zip where DTV carries both Youngstown & Cleveland as the same market for satellite delivered signal.

The OTA listings for the AM21's are not zip code specific, every zip code in a given market gets the same list of channels no matter where they are in relation to a neighboring market. There is no zip code that would give you an OTA listing for two markets.

Your best bet would be to complain to WJW directly, try looking for the contact of their engineering department since they would likely know the difference between satellite delivered locals and the lineup used by DirecTV's ATSC tuner. (As opposed to programming or even management who are likely unaware that the AM21 exists and will just think you're asking about it being added as part of the locals you receive via satellite)

Edited by KyL416, 25 November 2012 - 01:13 PM.


#559 OFFLINE   twiseguy

twiseguy

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 165 posts
Joined: Jan 31, 2011

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:22 AM

The OTA listings for the AM21's are not zip code specific, every zip code in a given market gets the same list of channels no matter where they are in relation to a neighboring market. There is no zip code that would give you an OTA listing for two markets.

Your best bet would be to complain to WJW directly, try looking for the contact of their engineering department since they would likely know the difference between satellite delivered locals and the lineup used by DirecTV's ATSC tuner. (As opposed to programming or even management who are likely unaware that the AM21 exists and will just think you're asking about it being added as part of the locals you receive via satellite)


I`ve tried that, too. But e-mails to WJW get an answer from a secretary or somebody that doesn`t even get the whole AM21 thing, and phone calls do not get past the operator. I even tried contacting Local TV LLC, the company that owns WJW, (DMA 18) (and others nationwide), but no luck there. Ironically, Local LLC is the owner of the station in Greensboro NC (DMA 47)that I use the secondary zipcode for Antenna TV.

AND all other stations that Local LLC owns around the country do have their secondary channels in the DTV database. But somehow they failed to get the station in their second largest market, Cleveland-Akron-Canton (Denver is Local LLC #1) listed in DTV database.

Oh well, guess you can`t have everything, (even though that`s what the AM21 is for) the Old Man will just have to keep watching ME TV.

#560 OFFLINE   jamieh1

jamieh1

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,390 posts
Joined: May 01, 2003

Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:19 PM

Greenville Washington New Bern NC market

WEPX DT 38.1 (RF ch 26)
WEPX DT 38.2
WEPX DT 38.3

These channels were on RF ch 51 and changed last month to ch 26. Directv needs to update the OTA data so these channels can be received.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...