Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Will Dish Network and Directv Merge ?


  • Please log in to reply
112 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   buzzcut

buzzcut

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 60 posts
Joined: Dec 12, 2006

Posted 26 July 2008 - 08:44 AM

Sirius and XM satellite radio, could this clear the way for a merger of Dish and the "main comp"?

if my memory serves me correct, i believe this was tried before? also, believe it was killed for "competition" reasons. seems to be more and more competition out there now.

was just curious if anyone had any thoughts on the subject?

just your "average joe" Dish subscriber (just celebrated 2yrs July 6th), so, don't follow this stuff too closely.

have a good one everybody!

...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#2 OFFLINE   DBS Commando

DBS Commando

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 435 posts
Joined: Apr 06, 2006

Posted 26 July 2008 - 10:21 AM

Will never happen. Would completely monopolize the markets in which TV subscribers only have 2 providers to choose from; Dish or Direct.

#3 OFFLINE   space86

space86

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 514 posts
Joined: May 03, 2007

Posted 26 July 2008 - 11:52 AM

With the approval of the XM and Sirius merger, could the merger of Dish Network and Directv be next ?

#4 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 20,937 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 26 July 2008 - 11:58 AM

With the approval of the XM and Sirius merger, could the merger of Dish Network and Directv be next ?

While the DARS approval seems to suggest that the tide has turned, I don't think DISH is going to spend the money to try and buy DIRECTV again after what happened last time.

#5 OFFLINE   scooper

scooper

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,968 posts
  • LocationYoungsville NC
Joined: Apr 22, 2002

Posted 26 July 2008 - 12:05 PM

No way no how. I don't think even Charlie thought it was going to go through the first time, but it was worth it to look at the competition's books.
You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

#6 OFFLINE   kstuart

kstuart

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 643 posts
Joined: Apr 25, 2002

Posted 26 July 2008 - 12:10 PM

Note that the XM-Sirius merger vote was 3 Republicans For, 2 Democrats Against.

A betting man would bet that in the future, the FCC will be a majority of Democrats.

I doubt that we will see any big mergers of any sort of companies in the next few years, even where the FCC is not involved...
Still using Dish 500 production unit #000001 (pictured prior to upgrade to DPPlusTwin)
Olevia 542i fed by ViP622 and 522

#7 OFFLINE   jclewter79

jclewter79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,833 posts
Joined: Jan 08, 2008

Posted 26 July 2008 - 02:03 PM

As much as I prefer E* over D*, I would hate to see a merger. In the area I live in they are the only 2 choices. Then again, it could be a pretty great company, rock solid HDDVR's, almost unlimited bandwidth, but, prices would be sky high.
Dish Customer since 12/13/03
Leased 722 DVR (Under contract until 08/02/10?)
(The installer had me sign an exsisting customer 18 month agreement!)
Owned 301 (Purchased at Wal-Mart 12/12/03)

#8 OFFLINE   tcusta00

tcusta00

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 7,911 posts
Joined: Dec 31, 2007

Posted 26 July 2008 - 02:17 PM

I think the long-term profitability/viability card was what XMSR/SIRI played to get their merger approved. I think it's unlikely, but possible that it will be tried with satellite TV.

Not to turn this into a DirecTV/Dish pissing contest, but I seriously doubt that Dish will be the acquirer here, either... DirecTV more than doubles their market cap and assets and is more than 9 times as profitable.

I also think that M&A activity among larger companies will increase, rather than decrease as suggested above. Companies look for synergies, especially in tough times like these, and therefore like to bargain hunt. Bank of America and Countrywide. JP Morgan and Bear Stearns. Your tax dollars and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. Okay, that last one was a joke, but you see what I'm getting at.

#9 OFFLINE   space86

space86

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 514 posts
Joined: May 03, 2007

Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:26 PM

I would not like E* and D* to merge.

Right now when you need new equipment you can switch between the two,
if they were to merge you would not have that option.

#10 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 20,553 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 26 July 2008 - 09:16 PM

Not to turn this into a DirecTV/Dish pissing contest, but I seriously doubt that Dish will be the acquirer here, either... DirecTV more than doubles their market cap and assets and is more than 9 times as profitable.


Unfortunately, that has little to do with how takeovers happen. K-Mart had already filed for bankruptcy when they bought out Sears. I hear semi-routinely about companies that are in bankruptcy somehow managing to buy-out companies that are not in financial troubles... so no reason a smaller company cannot buy a bigger one.

Besides, sometimes a smaller company has more cash in the bank than a bigger one... in which case they are more easily able to orchestrate a buyout.

Stranger things have happened.

That said, I don't believe we'll see this tried any time soon since it was sort-of tried a couple of years ago.

-- !rotaredoM mA eM

What I do when I'm not here


#11 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 20,937 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 26 July 2008 - 11:03 PM

I also think that M&A activity among larger companies will increase, rather than decrease as suggested above.

And hopefully so will the anti-monopoly activity of the DOJ.

While I agree with your idea, I hope that reason prevails and some manner of competition remains. It isn't easy to get back what you've lost in a monopoly unless the monopoly self destructs like a certain company in Redmond, Washington seems to be doing lately.

Here's where I see a difference in the business models between DARS and TV: DARS competes typically with non-franchised terrestrial stations whereas DBS competes with carriers who are quite often granted franchises by regional governments.

I think the fact that CATV's hands are often tied by these franchises will be the reason that a DBS merger would not go as well as the politically decided DARS merger went and that means a no go.

#12 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

Tom Robertson

    Lifetime Achiever

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,674 posts
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 26 July 2008 - 11:46 PM

Since both companies have shown that both can be profitable simultaneously, DOJ will not approve a merger.

The only thing that might have happened was shared services for locals, but that ship has likely sailed as well.

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#13 OFFLINE   tcusta00

tcusta00

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 7,911 posts
Joined: Dec 31, 2007

Posted 27 July 2008 - 06:07 AM

Unfortunately, that has little to do with how takeovers happen. K-Mart had already filed for bankruptcy when they bought out Sears. I hear semi-routinely about companies that are in bankruptcy somehow managing to buy-out companies that are not in financial troubles... so no reason a smaller company cannot buy a bigger one.

Besides, sometimes a smaller company has more cash in the bank than a bigger one... in which case they are more easily able to orchestrate a buyout.

Stranger things have happened.

That said, I don't believe we'll see this tried any time soon since it was sort-of tried a couple of years ago.


KMart and Sears were two companies in a lot of trouble. As far as investment banking is concerned you're comparing apples and oranges. Yes, I'm aware that a smaller company can buy a larger one. However, in this case, it's not going to happen, even if there weren't other extenuating circumstances that make it nigh onto impossible.

#14 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 32,430 posts
Joined: Jul 28, 2004

Posted 27 July 2008 - 07:05 AM

Since both companies have shown that both can be profitable simultaneously, DOJ will not approve a merger.

The only thing that might have happened was shared services for locals, but that ship has likely sailed as well.

Cheers,
Tom

I agree on both counts.
DBSTalk CHAT ROOM MODERATOR
DirecTV Customer Since 1996

#15 OFFLINE   jclewter79

jclewter79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,833 posts
Joined: Jan 08, 2008

Posted 27 July 2008 - 03:14 PM

It might be a good think if they combined their powers just to cover LIL's but, probably won't happen.
Dish Customer since 12/13/03
Leased 722 DVR (Under contract until 08/02/10?)
(The installer had me sign an exsisting customer 18 month agreement!)
Owned 301 (Purchased at Wal-Mart 12/12/03)

#16 OFFLINE   Jtaylor1

Jtaylor1

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 194 posts
Joined: Jan 27, 2008

Posted 05 August 2008 - 07:36 AM

No way! If D* & E* merges, I'm buying a digital-to-analog box for my TV.

I would like to see D* go back to Music Choice.

I heard Liberty Media's founder on CNBC says that a merge seems unlikely. I think.

#17 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

Stuart Sweet

    The Shadow Knows!

  • Super Moderators
  • 37,048 posts
Joined: Jun 18, 2006

Posted 05 August 2008 - 08:51 AM

A story by Reuters. covering the Wall Street Journal, claims:

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - U.S. satellite-TV provider Dish Network Corp (NasdaqGS:DISH - News) is weighing another attempt to merge with rival DirecTV Group Inc (NasdaqGS:DTV - News), The Wall Street Journal reported on Tuesday.


Full story: http://biz.yahoo.com...twork.html?.v=1
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, DISH, The Signal Group, or any other company.

#18 OFFLINE   jganyard

jganyard

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 35 posts
Joined: May 03, 2008

Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:03 AM

Unfortunately, that has little to do with how takeovers happen. K-Mart had already filed for bankruptcy when they bought out Sears. I hear semi-routinely about companies that are in bankruptcy somehow managing to buy-out companies that are not in financial troubles... so no reason a smaller company cannot buy a bigger one.


Kmart & Sears were both under the control of the same private equity firm when that happened. It was more like a merge. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6509683/

#19 OFFLINE   Hansen

Hansen

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,344 posts
Joined: Jan 01, 2006

Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:27 AM

I think these are too big of players in the market for the DOJ to sanction a merger.

As a side note, a lack of competition or reduction in competition caused by a merger is not good. Although some competition would still exist from the cable companies and fiber companies, that competition could be driven out of the market by such a big merger, which is not good for us. Plus, we still want Dish as a satellite provider out there to keep pressure on DirecTV to continuously improve what it offers its customers.
HR20-700 (networked) with 750gb eSATA drive via HDMI to Panasonic 42" HD plasma
HR20-700 (networked) via HDMI to Pioneer 50" HD plasma with customized URC Complete Control MX-3000 touch screen remote using RF
HR20-700 (networked) via HDMI to Samsung 19" HD LCD
H20-100 via HDMI to Toshiba 19" HD LCD
H20-100 (now retired and collecting dust) via HDMI<DVI to Sony 42" HD plasma
H21-100 via HDMI to Sony 40" HD LCD (in outdoor pavillion)

SWMLine dish

DirecTV since 1997


#20 OFFLINE   tiger2005

tiger2005

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 439 posts
Joined: Sep 22, 2006

Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:35 AM

No way do I see this happening. There are a lot of comparisons between Sirius and XM, but that's an entirely different industry IMO. Radio competition (with iPods, etc.) is huge. TV content providers are few and far between.
Thanks for DLB!! Best feature available on a DVR, bar none!

#21 OFFLINE   BudShark

BudShark

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,188 posts
Joined: Aug 11, 2003

Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:47 AM

While I think the reason against the first time was laughable (competition in rural areas - they had agreed to maintain 1 price nationwide as they do now... the rural areas would've benefitted from urban competition!) I still don't see it going through.

Sirius and XM were allowed for 1 reason - the entire industry likely would have failed within 5 years were it not for the merger. Both Dish and DirecTV are profitable, viable entities. They even used the argument that HD was going to sap their bandwidth and ability to compete in the future... and here we are now a few years later with a much FASTER rollout of HD LiL than anyone expected... they have no leg to stand on other than "It'll make us richer and may or may not help the customer..." No way, no how it flies. Republicans or Democrats...

Chris

#22 OFFLINE   gully_foyle

gully_foyle

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,297 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles
Joined: Jan 17, 2007

Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:53 AM

I'm going to be contrarian here. I think there is some chance for this, based in part upon DISH's weakness and in part on the absence of a Murdoch sabotaging things politically for personal gain.

DISH could well go out of business. If they lose the TiVo case (or rather if their loss of the TiVo case becomes final and is enforced) they will be essentially out of the DVR business, which means their customers leave in droves. Coupled with that is their current customer outflow (while DirecTV is still growing). Charlie Egan is not proposing this from a position of strength. He sees the future numbers and they look terrible.

I think that a merger, especially one that guaranteed 100% HD coverage for both sat and locals and added price restraints/rollbacks and unlocked the sports packages might fly with regulators, cable operators and rural broadcasters,

The real opposition to a merger would likely come from DirecTV. Why should they merge when there is a good chance DISH will fold and they can buy the orbital assets for really cheap, without the pesky costs associated with upgrading DISH subscribers?
DirecTV since 1994 // 2014Q2 Setup here

#23 OFFLINE   Chinatown

Chinatown

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 95 posts
Joined: Dec 13, 2003

Posted 05 August 2008 - 10:31 AM

Yes, but then all Dish customers would be saddled with single tuner, inferior receivers, and all that extra wiring.

No thanks.

#24 OFFLINE   EricRobins

EricRobins

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 463 posts
Joined: Feb 09, 2005

Posted 05 August 2008 - 10:41 AM

DISH could well go out of business. If they lose the TiVo case (or rather if their loss of the TiVo case becomes final and is enforced) they will be essentially out of the DVR business, which means their customers leave in droves. Coupled with that is their current customer outflow (while DirecTV is still growing). Charlie Egan is not proposing this from a position of strength. He sees the future numbers and they look terrible.


This could be the whole reason for the merger. Since D* has a license under the TiVo patents, such a merger would make the case moot. There may be massive past damages, but the current E* customers would then be under D*'s license. (This all depends on the specific language of the license agreement, which I have not seen.)

#25 OFFLINE   nmetro

nmetro

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 737 posts
Joined: Jul 11, 2006

Posted 05 August 2008 - 10:44 AM

Yes, but then all Dish customers would be saddled with single tuner, inferior receivers, and all that extra wiring.

No thanks.


Actually, with Echostar being the provider of the equipment (now a separate company), a merger would provide bother DirecTV and DISH subscribers the bets of both worlds. A merger would be similar to XM and Sirius. DISH Network subscribers would benefit from the DirectTV sports packages and DirectTV subscribers would gain movie packages and DVR equipment from Echostar. This may even reduce costs for both subscriber bases. Also, companies like Bresnan Communications continue to enter the rural market to provide an alternative to satellite; as are some of the major telephone companies. While 5 years ago when a merger was tried the FCC disallowed the merger, but today the environment has changed enough for making a merger possible.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...