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Guest Message by DevFuse

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ACC Expansion?


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17 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 02:22 PM

http://www.miami.com...rts/5846986.htm

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   marko

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 07:14 PM

sucks.

Well, it sucks for the remaining big east teams that are not going to the ACC (VaTech (maybe BC if tech goes), WVU, UConn ($90 million new football stadium in preparation for big east/div 1 football), and of course University of Pittsburgh. Not having Miami in the big east means the big east as a football conference is no longer viable (probable loss of automatic BCS bid would kill those teams).

Sad part is, it is the ACC that was in trouble football wise. Florida St is no longer looking to be the dominant team they were in the past (5 losses and in a BCS bowl last year?), and although there are some promising ACC teams (NC State for example), they are by no means established.

The big east on the other hand just has the NCAA basketball championship, while being represented by Miami in football champ this year (and champs last year).

Oh well, all about the money, and Miami apparently will make more in the ACC.

#3 OFFLINE   shy007

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 04:53 AM

Do you guys think Miami and Florida State will be in the same division...... That would be good and bad... It would keep another team in the runnin' for the ACC title each year..... If they put them in separate division, they will play for the title every year.....

#4 OFFLINE   marko

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 08:49 AM

Same. The theory is one will lose early on in the year to the other, but the loser will still have a chance to work their way back up the ladder in the rankings, and qualify for a BCS at large bid. If in the same league, the loser of the league championship will drop in rankings, and damage bcs at large opportunity.

Which to me sort of seems odd. I would want them separate, and have them meet in the conference championship to get a true conference champion.

#5 OFFLINE   sbturner

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 10:07 AM

The Big East needs to fold. Letting all those puny schools play basketball, but not football. They did this to themselves. As far as FSU' demise, just wait they will be dominant again soon!! The ACC with Miami, lorida State, Virginia Tech (I hope), and the other schools will be one of the dominant football conferences in the country. The SEC, Big XII, Big TEN, and PAC-10 will have their work cut out for them to keep up.

#6 OFFLINE   marko

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 10:58 AM

Please, with Miami moving into the ACC, Miami will still be the dominant team. Florida St is much like Penn St, stagnant with an over the hill coach. They will have their decent seasons still, because who they are, but Fl St run as a dominant team is over I think. It would be smart of the ACC to take tech, but it looks like that won't happen. The real question is how will Cuse/BC compete in the ACC? Right now cuse is down, and BC is doing ok. Will a move to the ACC make things better? If those teams move to the bottom of ACC football, then really, this decision does not net the ACC all that much. But still, the ACC needs Miami to be viable as a football conference, so the ACC does not have much of a choice.

#7 OFFLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 11:01 AM

Here's my picks:

ACC : Miami, BC, Syracuse
Big Ten: Pitt
Conf USA: WVU, VT, Rutgers
HR34-700
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HR24-200

#8 OFFLINE   SamC

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 04:40 AM

The Big (L)East in football is, and always has existed for two things. For Miami, it was a way to play a far lighter schedule than anybody else; for the rest, it was simply than nobody else wanted them.

Miami discovered that even playing an ultra-light schedule and winning all the time didn't make money. Miami attendence (and ticket price) is puny, compared to any other national championship contending team. They cause Syracuse and BC to be wanted.

As to the rest, it will be Virginia Tech that will find its way into the Big 10. The 10 already have the Pittsburgh TV markets (particularly if the East disolves, since Conf. USA isn't in the main TV package anyway). And Pitt has major attendance problems (you can buy season tickets, remember that they play Notre Dame at home this year, for less than $80 with no booster contribution). VPI, which is a major academic school (important to the Big 10) brings at least an in-road to the DC TV market, plus the nice mid-sized Virginia markets (Roanoke, Bristol, Richmond, and Norfolk). And it would be a masterstroke by Tech, which has been blackballed by the U of V from the ACC for years. AND Louisville was sued by Tech when the Metro Conf broke up and U of L will blackball any Tech membership in CUSA.

So, IMHO, you have:

ACC: Miami, BC, Syracuse (done deal)
Big 10: VA Tech
Conf USA: WVU, Pitt, and probably Rutgers.
Div III: Temple

IMHO, UConn's "20K ticket subscriptions" are mostly phony. I look for UConn to find a home in I-AA, where it belongs.

#9 OFFLINE   John Walsh III

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 06:17 AM

It will be great for ACC football but change the "tradition" of ACC basketball. Apparently, Carolina and Duke were the two who voted against it. Wonder how they will do the basketball schedule with 12 teams? Less non-conference games or just play the teams in your division twice and possibly the ones in the other division once?
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#10 OFFLINE   jrbdmb

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 07:09 AM

Originally posted by SamC
So, IMHO, you have:

ACC: Miami, BC, Syracuse (done deal)
Big 10: VA Tech
Conf USA: WVU, Pitt, and probably Rutgers.
Div III: Temple

IMHO, UConn's "20K ticket subscriptions" are mostly phony. I look for UConn to find a home in I-AA, where it belongs.

Virginia is pushing for Va Tech to be the third addition. They *could* knock out BC. And I see no way that the Big 10 would accept Va Tech - the only team they are going to expand for in the near future is Notre Dame.

Now the way is should happen is for Miami *only* to go to the ACC. It always seemed stupid geographically to have Miami associated with an otherwise northeast conference - it is equally silly to link Syracuse and/or BC with a southeast conference. If the ACC has to expand by three then add Miami, Va. Tech, then raid another confernce for a school like South Carolina. Even Louisville is a better fit than Syracuse / BC.

#11 OFFLINE   Ryan

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 08:59 AM

Syracuse & BC do not belong in the ACC. Isn't Notre Dame already participating in Big East basketball?

Big East Football should go away. Miami to the ACC is fine, but I think they're actually lowering the quality of football opponents. Rutgers and Temple football should probably drop to the MAAC. Or maybe the A-10 (A-12?). Pittsburgh, WVU and VPI should try to stay together somewhere. Maybe a move with Marshall somewhere? VPI just doesn't seem to fit in the ACC in my mind.

Big East basketball should stay. Big East Basketball is a good conference with marquee teams and venues: UConn, Syracuse, St. John's, Notre Dame, Madison Square Garden.

#12 OFFLINE   Ryan

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 09:03 AM

>> actually lowering the quality of football opponents

Let me clarify that. I think they are lowering the name recognition and quality of a couple opponents (VPI, usually either Pitt, SU or WVU has a good season any particular year and have name-recognition) for less well-known but probably an overall tougher conference.

#13 OFFLINE   marko

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 01:41 PM

Originally posted by SamC
The Big (L)East in football is, and always has existed for two things. For Miami, it was a way to play a far lighter schedule than anybody else; for the rest, it was simply than nobody else wanted them.

Miami discovered that even playing an ultra-light schedule and winning all the time didn't make money. Miami attendence (and ticket price) is puny, compared to any other national championship contending team. They cause Syracuse and BC to be wanted.

As to the rest, it will be Virginia Tech that will find its way into the Big 10. The 10 already have the Pittsburgh TV markets (particularly if the East disolves, since Conf. USA isn't in the main TV package anyway). And Pitt has major attendance problems (you can buy season tickets, remember that they play Notre Dame at home this year, for less than $80 with no booster contribution). VPI, which is a major academic school (important to the Big 10) brings at least an in-road to the DC TV market, plus the nice mid-sized Virginia markets (Roanoke, Bristol, Richmond, and Norfolk). And it would be a masterstroke by Tech, which has been blackballed by the U of V from the ACC for years. AND Louisville was sued by Tech when the Metro Conf broke up and U of L will blackball any Tech membership in CUSA.

So, IMHO, you have:

ACC: Miami, BC, Syracuse (done deal)
Big 10: VA Tech
Conf USA: WVU, Pitt, and probably Rutgers.
Div III: Temple

IMHO, UConn's "20K ticket subscriptions" are mostly phony. I look for UConn to find a home in I-AA, where it belongs.


Please, UConn has great fan support all around, and a new football team in the right league will be successful.

As far as VaTech in the big 10, that is not going to happen. Face it, VaTech belongs in either the SEC, or possibly ACC. Big East does fine for tech right now.

And you need to learn some things about attendance. Some schools will naturally draw more people than other schools. Miami is a smaller private institution. Many of the other big east schools are in urban areas (BC/Pittsburgh/Rutgers). Urban schools tend to not get as much attendance as other schools such as VaTech/Big 10/SEC type schools. Attendance is a big part of athletic success, but it is not the only thing.

#14 OFFLINE   marko

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Ryan
Syracuse & BC do not belong in the ACC. Isn't Notre Dame already participating in Big East basketball?

Big East Football should go away. Miami to the ACC is fine, but I think they're actually lowering the quality of football opponents. Rutgers and Temple football should probably drop to the MAAC. Or maybe the A-10 (A-12?). Pittsburgh, WVU and VPI should try to stay together somewhere. Maybe a move with Marshall somewhere? VPI just doesn't seem to fit in the ACC in my mind.

Big East basketball should stay. Big East Basketball is a good conference with marquee teams and venues: UConn, Syracuse, St. John's, Notre Dame, Madison Square Garden.


No, big east football should not go away. I personally do not like the whole BCS setup now, where the major conferences rules college football, and the last thing that is needed is to drop the number of major colleges from 6 to 5. The big east serves many colleges quite well (Cuse/BC/WVU/VaTech/Pittsburgh), and without the big east at least 4 pretty decent programs will be left in shambles.

ACC football is what is truly hurting. FSU decline has really hurt the ACC, and to make up for it they need to add another marquee name. Miami does that just fine. The expansion is also being pushed by ACC football teams, and I bet there are threats by some schools to leave if ACC football doesn't improve. Face it, ACC nixed expansion ideas 3 or 4 years ago when the ACC was strong, and the big east was weak. ACC is now the weak one and to protect themselves, they feel the need to expand.

#15 OFFLINE   marko

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 01:48 PM

Originally posted by SamC
The Big (L)East in football is, and always has existed for two things. For Miami, it was a way to play a far lighter schedule than anybody else; for the rest, it was simply than nobody else wanted them.

Miami discovered that even playing an ultra-light schedule and winning all the time didn't make money. Miami attendence (and ticket price) is puny, compared to any other national championship contending team. They cause Syracuse and BC to be wanted.

As to the rest, it will be Virginia Tech that will find its way into the Big 10. The 10 already have the Pittsburgh TV markets (particularly if the East disolves, since Conf. USA isn't in the main TV package anyway). And Pitt has major attendance problems (you can buy season tickets, remember that they play Notre Dame at home this year, for less than $80 with no booster contribution). VPI, which is a major academic school (important to the Big 10) brings at least an in-road to the DC TV market, plus the nice mid-sized Virginia markets (Roanoke, Bristol, Richmond, and Norfolk). And it would be a masterstroke by Tech, which has been blackballed by the U of V from the ACC for years. AND Louisville was sued by Tech when the Metro Conf broke up and U of L will blackball any Tech membership in CUSA.

So, IMHO, you have:

ACC: Miami, BC, Syracuse (done deal)
Big 10: VA Tech
Conf USA: WVU, Pitt, and probably Rutgers.
Div III: Temple

IMHO, UConn's "20K ticket subscriptions" are mostly phony. I look for UConn to find a home in I-AA, where it belongs.


Please, UConn has great fan support all around, and a new football team in the right league will be successful.

As far as VaTech in the big 10, that is not going to happen. Face it, VaTech belongs in either the SEC, or possibly ACC. Big East does fine for tech right now.

And you need to learn some things about attendance. Some schools will naturally draw more people than other schools. Miami is a smaller private institution. Many of the other big east schools are in urban areas (BC/Pittsburgh/Rutgers). Urban schools tend to not get as much attendance as other schools such as VaTech/Big 10/SEC type schools. Attendance is a big part of athletic success, but it is not the only thing.

#16 OFFLINE   Greg Bimson

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 10:00 PM

Face it, ACC nixed expansion ideas 3 or 4 years ago when the ACC was strong, and the big east was weak. ACC is now the weak one and to protect themselves, they feel the need to expand.

Name the only conference last year to have all of their teams lose in their bowl games.

Big East.

The ACC has always wanted Miami. Finally, they may get their wish.

#17 OFFLINE   marko

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 11:07 PM

Originally posted by Greg Bimson
Name the only conference last year to have all of their teams lose in their bowl games.

Big East.

The ACC has always wanted Miami. Finally, they may get their wish.


Hum, I don't know where you got your information, but I think the big east was 4-1 in bowl games last year (only Miami in champ game lost, and that was quite a good game).

The year before that they were also 4-1, and I think even the year before they were 4-1. Big east performed fine in bowl games the last few years.

#18 OFFLINE   Greg Bimson

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Posted 16 May 2003 - 08:25 AM

Whoops. The Big East was 3-2 (WVU lost, too). My bad. And Notre Dame is lumped in with the Big East when it comes to selection of bowl games, and they lost.

ACC football isn't hurting, though. They don't really have a national power, now that FSU has been weakened. However, they did very well in bowl games last year, with Maryland and NC State pulling some shockers.

But the addition of a Miami and 'cuse and either BC or VaTech would be a start for push the ACC into the upper echelons of major football conferences.

And that is why if the ACC does expand, it may be the beginning of a major realignment. This would make the third large conference to have a championship game (SEC, Big 12). Those generate a lot of money. Not to mention interest. And you could see the start of 12 team conferences nationwide, just like some of the smaller conferences (MAC).




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