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HD Locals: Los Angeles, CA


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97 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   djrobx

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 12:24 AM

KTLA HD feed very bad tonight. 11pm news was blacking out all over the place.

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#22 OFFLINE   scottp461

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 11:49 AM

I do most of my "local" recordings off-air on 2 old HR-10's and sometimes do back up recordings of the same shows off of DirecTV local feeds on HR-20's. I have been tracking signal dropouts when they occur, and checking the same area of the recordings from the "other" source when they do. In EVERY case, there is a glitch in the off air MPEG2 (source) that corresponds to the MUCH WORSE freeze and/or dropout in the DirecTV MPEG4 local feed. Since DirecTV "receives" the same local signals as I do and then converts them to MPEG4 for retransmission, the glitches are not FROM DirecTV, but the MPEG4 encoders do not handle data glitches in the source well at all! MPEG2 signal recovery off-air is usually a second or 2, but the corresponding MPEG4 recovery can be 5, 10 or even 20 seconds. Can the MPEG4 encoders be set up to handle data errors better than they do now? I don't know. It would be something that would be worth DirecTV looking into.

#23 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 06:14 AM

I do most of my "local" recordings off-air on 2 old HR-10's and sometimes do back up recordings of the same shows off of DirecTV local feeds on HR-20's. I have been tracking signal dropouts when they occur, and checking the same area of the recordings from the "other" source when they do. In EVERY case, there is a glitch in the off air MPEG2 (source) that corresponds to the MUCH WORSE freeze and/or dropout in the DirecTV MPEG4 local feed. Since DirecTV "receives" the same local signals as I do and then converts them to MPEG4 for retransmission, the glitches are not FROM DirecTV, but the MPEG4 encoders do not handle data glitches in the source well at all! MPEG2 signal recovery off-air is usually a second or 2, but the corresponding MPEG4 recovery can be 5, 10 or even 20 seconds. Can the MPEG4 encoders be set up to handle data errors better than they do now? I don't know. It would be something that would be worth DirecTV looking into.

DirecTV is well aware of this issue. But if you think about it, the glitch from the encoder that takes the MPEG-2 signal and re-encodes it to MPEG-4 will ALWAYS be worse than the glitch in the MPEG-2 signal. The MPEG-4 encoder will always take a finite time to recover when the MPEG-2 signal becomes stable again so the glitch will be longer.

#24 OFFLINE   djrobx

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 08:22 PM

DirecTV is well aware of this issue. But if you think about it, the glitch from the encoder that takes the MPEG-2 signal and re-encodes it to MPEG-4 will ALWAYS be worse than the glitch in the MPEG-2 signal. The MPEG-4 encoder will always take a finite time to recover when the MPEG-2 signal becomes stable again so the glitch will be longer.

I don't see why. Assuming we have:

OTA Mpeg2 -> DirecTV MPEG-2 Decode - > Raw Frames -> DirecTV MPEG 4 Encode -> STB Receiver Decode.

The MPEG-4 encoder should just encode the raw frames that it "sees". Errors in the MPEG-2 stream should not inherently make for "even worse" MPEG-4 output. The decoder should generate frames just as you would see them on your own STB. The MPEG-4 encoder wouldn't know the difference between "good" frames and bad ones.

I do, of course, agree that a small amount of data loss will have more impact on MPEG-4. But Scott is saying errors in the "source" MPEG-2 are triggering bigger problems with the MPEG-4 stream. That should be something that is fixable.

PS: American Idol is having major feed issues tonight. :(

Edited by djrobx, 01 April 2009 - 10:46 PM.


#25 OFFLINE   bmwtaxi

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:55 PM

Fox has been bad all week. Drop outs during American Idol, Lie to Me etc.

#26 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 10:03 PM

I have been having drop outs on fox as of late... This is obviously a fox issue. I had thought maybe my wiring was part of the problem, and redid some of it, but it still has dropouts on this one station.. and only that station.. Fox 11 HD off of the Spotbeam feed, not the channel in the 390's.. I don't know if that channel has issues too or not...

#27 OFFLINE   djrobx

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 12:16 AM

Seeing the same. Fox-11 has been VERY bad lately, but other channels have been fine. I haven't compared with the national feed.

#28 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 08:23 AM

Truly poor broadcast quality from KCOP-13 yesterday, 4/12, during the Red Sox/Angels game. The broadcast was produced using the standard fox sports graphics, so I suspect it went out to the rest of the country as HD but was broadcast SD in Los Angeles. Not only that but there were breakups every 10-15 seconds and frequent audio burps.

I do not get KCOP-DT over the air so I can't confirm if this was a broadcast center issue.
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#29 OFFLINE   djrobx

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 01:05 AM

OK, I finally recorded both Fox-11 and Fox-399. Fox-11 had some bad dropouts, while Fox-399 went on without a hiccup. So it's NOT a Fox issue.

FWIW, my signal strength is 100 on the spot beam. 88 or so for the national one that actually seems to work better! I've even gone as far as to monitor the signal level while the channel is on through DirecTV's serial port interface. It never dips below 100. So it's not a momentary drop out or something of that nature.

#30 OFFLINE   bmwtaxi

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 11:06 PM

I've had the same FOX 11 issues fro several weeks now. Numerous drops on almost evry show recorded over the last three or four weeks.

#31 OFFLINE   Wisegoat

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:18 PM

Truly poor broadcast quality from KCOP-13 yesterday, 4/12, during the Red Sox/Angels game. The broadcast was produced using the standard fox sports graphics, so I suspect it went out to the rest of the country as HD but was broadcast SD in Los Angeles. Not only that but there were breakups every 10-15 seconds and frequent audio burps.

I do not get KCOP-DT over the air so I can't confirm if this was a broadcast center issue.


OTA looks just as bad. I cannot figure out for the life of me why Arte Moreno leaves his team on this station. They refuse to air anything except wrestling in HD. Even when we know what they are broadcasting is in HD (i.e. the Angels games). FCC - Take away their license! Same with KDOC 56-1. They never use their HD signal to show anything in HD.

#32 OFFLINE   juniormaj

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 06:13 PM

OK, I finally recorded both Fox-11 and Fox-399. Fox-11 had some bad dropouts, while Fox-399 went on without a hiccup. So it's NOT a Fox issue.


I had major problems on Fox-11 last night (17 May) during 'The Simpsons', but not even one hiccup during 'King of the Hill'.
This afternoon I noticed some bad glitching on Fox-11, so I switched over to 399 and it was trouble free.

#33 OFFLINE   waltersw

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 06:24 PM

bounced to this thread..talking about 24 last night and the first hour having video/audio issues. Looks like it's a LA issue.

So, what's the solution? Skip the local fox 11 and record from Nat. feed 399?

#34 OFFLINE   juniormaj

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 07:13 PM

bounced to this thread..talking about 24 last night and the first hour having video/audio issues. Looks like it's a LA issue.

So, what's the solution? Skip the local fox 11 and record from Nat. feed 399?


That's my current plan, at least until it gets resolved.
I recorded '24' on 11 and 399 last night. Although I noticed glitches on both feeds, it seemed the ones on 399 were much less severe than the ones on 11.
On 11 the glitches would often result in complete loss of picture and sound for up to 5 seconds, whereas the same glitches on 399 just produced an annoying 'brrrrrp' and some minor pixellation for a much shorter time. The only differing factor I can see is maybe that 11 is on a spot beam and 399 is ConUS? For some reason 11 is affected in a more severe way by these glitches.

#35 OFFLINE   mrshermanoaks

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 09:33 PM

The dropouts just kept coming in "24". Was hugely annoying.
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#36 OFFLINE   Church AV Guy

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by C-Dub006
Another great season of 24 comes to an end. Can't wait until January!. Had a couple of observations on picture quality. Did anyone else in the LA area watching have any moments of pixal breakups (4 times) and lost picture/sound (3 times) for a several seconds?. The lost picture/sound cause a few seconds of lost dialog at critical times during the show. Tried to go back and come out of the commercial earlier, but to no avail. I had DVR'd like always and delayed the screening to avoid the commercials like I'm sure, a lot of people do. Have NEVER had any issues with picture quality in the past. A few breakups now and then, but nothing like last night. Kind of a bummer since it was the end of the season. Maybe just a HD glitch?. I hope its an isolated hiccup.

The dropouts just kept coming in "24". Was hugely annoying.


I accidentally posted this in the show discussion area. I have deleted it from there, and added it back here.

C-Dub006, your description is exactly what I saw on two DVRs. I was watching live, and both of them had the exact same pixelation and drop-outs. The two were frame by frame duplicates of each other. I assumed, when I saw that, that the problem was not my equipment, but a problem with what DirecTV got from the broadcast in LA, or in the relay from LA to the uplink. It does not appear to have been seen in other localities.

I never thought of using 399. I'll look into it.
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#37 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 07:45 PM

That's my current plan, at least until it gets resolved.
I recorded '24' on 11 and 399 last night. Although I noticed glitches on both feeds, it seemed the ones on 399 were much less severe than the ones on 11.
On 11 the glitches would often result in complete loss of picture and sound for up to 5 seconds, whereas the same glitches on 399 just produced an annoying 'brrrrrp' and some minor pixellation for a much shorter time. The only differing factor I can see is maybe that 11 is on a spot beam and 399 is ConUS? For some reason 11 is affected in a more severe way by these glitches.


That is weird.. No matter what, Fox (11 & 13) are cheap stations, and I am hoping that when the analogue goes down in a month, that they will up their signal strength.. I can;t recall if they are moving frequency, but maybe that would help too....

24 the best show on tv, and the worst presentation.. Not Happy, as I saw all of the glitches that everyone else mentioned!!!

#38 OFFLINE   juniormaj

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 08:57 PM

That is weird.. No matter what, Fox (11 & 13) are cheap stations, and I am hoping that when the analogue goes down in a month, that they will up their signal strength.. I can;t recall if they are moving frequency, but maybe that would help too....

24 the best show on tv, and the worst presentation.. Not Happy, as I saw all of the glitches that everyone else mentioned!!!


I saw a few shows listed on 13 a couple of months ago that looked interesting, but when I watched them there were so many freezes and brrrrps that I gave up on the channel completely. That's a bad testimony, in my opinion.

Thankfully 13 doesn't carry the Dodgers or the Lakers (or the Clippers, for that matter). I think they carry the Angels once in awhile, but only in SD if I recall correctly.
I hope Saturdays Dodgers/Angels game isn't blacked out on PrimeTicket because it's on 13.

Edited by juniormaj, 20 May 2009 - 09:02 PM.
added some sports bits


#39 OFFLINE   Hutchinshouse

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:59 AM

Is KLCS Channel 58-2 new to the Los Angeles HD lineup? I saw it for the first time last night. It was a 480i program (that filled the screen), however when I sorted by HD the channel was included.

FYI - My HR20 set to native/ pillar box

#40 OFFLINE   trainman

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 10:16 AM

I hope Saturdays Dodgers/Angels game isn't blacked out on PrimeTicket because it's on 13.


Shouldn't be -- it's the Dodgers' local broadcast on Prime Ticket, and the Angels' local broadcast on 13, and neither team has the authority to black out the other's local broadcast. (Of course, there's always the slim possibility of some bizarre DirecTV technical issue...)
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