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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Experimental Small Slimline3 Dish


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462 replies to this topic

#76 OFFLINE   dacoop2

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 09:10 PM

Yeah, like I said...not the best idea. I'm just trying to think outside the box if I can't get decent signals on the 99 and 103 simultaneously. Still haven't received the slimline LNB yet but it should be arriving early in the week. Rain fade won't be as much of an issue here in sunny California as it would other places.

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#77 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 07:55 PM

I tried both, the WNC seemed to fit better and 'seemed' easier to tweak settings but overall worked the same.


I believe the WNC and Eagle Aspen LNBs have mostly been discussed thus far in this thread. Here is some discussion and photos from working with the CalAmp 5 LNB & Eagle Aspen SL3 with the Phase III.

There are photos of a CalAmp 5lnb (model 151647) inserted into a Phase III 18x20" oval RCA dish arm posted here:
http://www.dbstalk.c...7&postcount=164

I found that in the case of the CalAmp LNB, the holes line up such that the mounting bolts can be passed through to secure the lnb with the key flush against the arm without notching out the arm mouth for the key.

Photo 1 attached below is the same CalAmp 5lnb inserted into the same lnb arm after I drilled a hole in the center at the lnb arm mouth opening and cut out more metal to make a notch for the key to be inserted. However, I wasn't able to fully insert the lnb such that the f connector metal block was completely concealed within the arm. This was NOT due to the key since you can see from the photo I cut out extra space. Instead, the F connector block is rubbing against the inside of the arm where the mouth narrows. This happens even without any cables connected to the outside F connectors. Originally I thought the connectors on the ends of the RG6 cables on the outside connections might be interfering so I took all the cables off to check and determined it was the F connector block. Plus the scrape marks from hitting the inside of the arm were evident on the outside of the F connector block when I pulled it back out. Also, note that you can still see a bit of the mounting holes on the F connector block with it pushed in as far as it will go in this case. The mounting holes of the F connector block don't fully pass the holes of the arm (but almost). I was thinking of grinding/filing down the F connector block on the outside edge and/or notching/drilling out the arm mouth where it narrows in order to get the lnb fully seated, however I've noticed that by leaving some play you can angle the lnb downward more toward the center of the dish and produce better signal strength by getting more signal reflected down the throat of the feed horn. I initially posted this finding in another thread here in response to Doctor J:
http://www.dbstalk.c...6&postcount=172

In that same thread I have posted more pictures which might be helpful for this project. See posts 161, 163, 164, & 165. Also, there are links to more lnb photos in post 173.

For the Eagle Aspen 5 LNB are you able to fully seat it within the arm with the entire F connector metal block concealed within the arm after notching the phase III arm? I was not able to fully insert the Eagle Aspen SL3 into the same phase III arm. In photo 2 attached below, that was as far as I could insert it. The F connector block for the Eagle Aspen SL3 is a bit larger than the CalAmp's so it hits the insides of the arm mouth and doesn't come as near to flush as does the CalAmp 5lnb. Interestingly, at full insertion the mounting holes are in line though - note the bolts passing through.

I wonder if the narrowing of the mouth on the lnb arm varies between dish manufacturers? I was working with a RCA phase III that is shown in the photos. Perhaps another make does not narrow as quickly as the RCA - that would be good to know.


LNB heads that work well in this phase 3 dish configuration.

Slimline 3 head with receiver set to slimline 3. "Best all around operation"

WNC AU9 5 LNB (white caps) with receiver set to slimline 3. "Very good operation"

Eagle Aspen (clear covers) 5 LNB with receiver set to slimline 3. " works good"

Use slimline setup numbers to do course alignment of 101 signal, use 99(c/a) and 103(c/a) meter readings to fine tune Ka band HD operation.:)

Use the normal screws/nuts in the pre drilled holes of the arm and LNB assembly, this alignment occurs when the LNB is inserted about half way.

EDIT:The highest Ka signal numbers so far is when the LNB is fully inserted and flush in the arm tube,secure with small self tapping screws just behind the predrilled holes on the bottom of the arm tube "away from the LNB" Do this only if you feel they are needed to secure the LNB head.

1/4 inch hex head 1/4 inch long self taping screws work best, this lands the screw in a safe place.

also drilling new holes in the tube arm at the correct place and using the normal hardware to secure the LNB is a great option as well.:)

The key on the bottom of the LNB must pass to the inside of the dish arm tube,this can be done with a flat blade screw driver or metal nipper to make a notch for the key to fit into.


Matt, I'm very curious on this point:" The highest Ka signal numbers so far is when the LNB is fully inserted and flush in the arm tube"

Can you confirm which LNB model(s) you were able to fully insert and get flush? Was this the case for both the Eagle Aspen 5 LNB and the WNC 5 LNB? If the Eagle Aspen 5lnb can be fully inserted then a) the F connector block must be different on the Eagle Aspen SL3 or B) the lnb arm mouth opening must be different on the dish tested.

And which make dish were you inserting into? I am trying to determine/pinpoint if the variation is in the LNBs, the dish arms, or both. THANKS - Tad.

Attached Thumbnails

  • CalAmp5lnb_inserted.jpg
  • sl3_inserted.jpg


#78 OFFLINE   lwilli201

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 09:28 PM

Is there a problem with getting the quide data with this setup?
1-HR21-100, 2-HR21-700, 1 w/eSATA, all networked, unsupported MRV. AT9 Dish(110 & 119 disabled) and SWM8.

#79 OFFLINE   Matt9876

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 06:00 AM

Is there a problem with getting the quide data with this setup?


If you use a slimline 3 head no problem with guide data.:)

With a 5LNB and the receiver unit set to slimline 3 after three days of testing revealed no problems with H20s guide data, some have suggested that if the unit wasn't left on a SD (101 sat channel) overnight you could have a loss of guide data.

If you did have an issue pressing the reset button will cause it to start reloading the guide data.

#80 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 11:51 AM

Is there a problem with getting the quide data with this setup?


There are numerous posts on this topic in various threads, but this post by Texasbrit sums it up well:

http://www.dbstalk.c...84&postcount=12

#81 OFFLINE   Matt9876

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 01:27 PM

Tadfad I've been studying the photos you provided,It seems the arm tube is made slightly differently than the one I used "mine has a deeper insert area" the phase three dish itself is made by several different companies and yours is a little bit different.

we are only talking about a couple of points difference in Ka band signal strength by not having it flush/fully seated.

Still working on balance issue with 99 - 103 signals also working to perfect the first dish I posted, have already had better results with a different reflector.

#82 OFFLINE   Matt9876

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 03:17 PM

Just spent an hour with phase 3 dish and WNC 5LNB head and happy to report on standard signal meter the one with the graphic bars 99© @ 87, 103© @ 95 , 101 @ 96.


How I did it, got 101 signal the highest with elevation and azimuth,adjusted tilt till 99 and 103 became in balance "signal in the high 50s" , went back to elevation and signals jumped up to high 80s to the low 90s for the Ka bands.


This stuff works it's just a little tricky to adjust.:)

#83 OFFLINE   kevinm34232

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 04:25 PM

Matt what was the final tilt adjustment compared to what it should be for the ka/ku dish in your area? My tilt setting is 57 and that's about where it is on the 18x20.

So, you got 101 in the 90's I assume, and were able to adjust tilt to drop 99 and 103 into the high 50's while still keeping 101 up?

#84 OFFLINE   Matt9876

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 05:09 PM

Matt what was the final tilt adjustment compared to what it should be for the ka/ku dish in your area? My tilt setting is 57 and that's about where it is on the 18x20.

So, you got 101 in the 90's I assume, and were able to adjust tilt to drop 99 and 103 into the high 50's while still keeping 101 up?



Slimline suggested elevation was 44 for 37801 area,actual final setting was 41.

Slimline suggested tilt was 68 for 37801 area,actual final setting was 62.

Signals came up quick as I lowered the elevation.

KTI phase 3 dish with WNC 5LNB.Final signal meter readings the one with the graphic bars 99© @ 87, 103© @ 95 , 101 @ 96.

#85 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 05:31 PM

SL-3 head made a significant difference.
still having some issues with 103c even transponders being the odd man out.
tilt was a bit flatter 78 vs 70. elevation not much different for me. Az very sensative.
Quick #'s 101- 92 to 96
99c odd & even 81 to 87
103 c odd 83 to 87 even 73 to 75

dish I believe is WNC phase III.
sl3 head flush with slot cut out for key, no screws yet.
receiver H-23 with single line fom dish directly to receiver. Built in BBC.
dish on deck on tripod to simulate tailgate setup.

Doctor j

MFH-2 System : 2 Major Viewing Areas. 2 x HR20-700's & H21 in each area via E2/SWM-8. Hardwire gigabit switch to 30 mb/sec internet.


#86 OFFLINE   kevinm34232

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 04:50 AM

We need some way to make an AzEl fine adjustment mod for the dish.

#87 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 05:56 AM

Here's a fine tune adapter for elevation:

http://tv4rv.com/conversion.pdf

Doctor j

MFH-2 System : 2 Major Viewing Areas. 2 x HR20-700's & H21 in each area via E2/SWM-8. Hardwire gigabit switch to 30 mb/sec internet.


#88 OFFLINE   Matt9876

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 02:39 PM

New HD tailgate rig 18 inch round dish,phase 3 arm,WNC 5LNB head.

Only works for 99-101 or 101-103 must adjust tilt and azimuth to switch birds.

This one works very good and will be going on the road with me tailgating,camping etc. :)

I am convinced that the proper shape multi-sat reflector will get them all "99-101-103", Dishes 110-119 reflector would probably work well for this but I'm going to stick with DirecTV parts for now. This is the smallest rig so far that is easy to set up and gives a stable HD signal.

Take it apart and it fits in a regular suit case."Except for the concrete block"

http://www.dbstalk.c...28&d=1255821066

Edited by Matt9876, 17 October 2009 - 05:21 PM.
PS


#89 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 06:35 PM

New HD tailgate rig 18 inch round dish,phase 3 arm,WNC 5LNB head.

Only works for 99-101 or 101-103 must adjust tilt and azimuth to switch birds.

This one works very good and will be going on the road with me tailgating,camping etc. :)

I am convinced that the proper shape multi-sat reflector will get them all "99-101-103", Dishes 110-119 reflector would probably work well for this but I'm going to stick with DirecTV parts for now. This is the smallest rig so far that is easy to set up and gives a stable HD signal.

Take it apart and it fits in a regular suit case."Except for the concrete block"

Posted Image


Matt:
you need an SL3 head.
Can't find one now but only $45.00 on e-bay last week.
They are tiny!
Will make that mini-tailgate setup even easier to transport!!

Doctor j

MFH-2 System : 2 Major Viewing Areas. 2 x HR20-700's & H21 in each area via E2/SWM-8. Hardwire gigabit switch to 30 mb/sec internet.


#90 OFFLINE   kevinm34232

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 04:03 AM

I bought an Eagle Aspen SL3 LNB for the 18x20 and signals went down, not sure why. In the end I was able to get 99 and 103 average in the low to mid 80's, some transponders in the high 70's. Also signals on the HR21 were about 10 points lower than the H23's with the SL3, whereas that didn't happen with the SL5.

#91 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 01:02 PM

Matt:
you need an SL3 head.
Can't find one now but only $45.00 on e-bay last week.
They are tiny!
Will make that mini-tailgate setup even easier to transport!!

Doctor j


I agree that the SL3 makes a nice difference in size, weight, and portability. The SL3 is now available from Solid Signal for $39.99 plus $9.95 shipping:
http://www.solidsign...y.asp?prod=SL-3

As far as other ways to cut size, looks like you have a concrete block like this:
http://images.lowes....20779802304.jpg

I looked at using that, but it was 8 x 8 x 16 as compared to a smaller concrete pier block - see attached photo. Plus I wanted to do away with the long, large mast so I went to a shorter pipe mount. This lowers the center of gravity, plus the pipe can be easily unscrewed from the mount for disassembly. However, I first carry the block using the pipe - with the pipe screwed in and with a one hand grip on pipe - when I'm moving it around and then unscrew the pipe to break it down smaller once it's loaded.

I use some small shims that I use to plumb the mast for uneven ground. I sit a bullseye level like this one right on top of the pipe:
http://www.tools-plu...level-3604.html

I have a post level as well like this one:
http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/B0009WG3HI

If anyone has suggestions/comments on making this smaller, lighter, more portable, easier to set up, etc. - I'd appreciate it.

There is a picture of the fully assembled 18x20 oval dish with SL3 on the concrete pier in this photo link (dish on the left):

http://www.dbstalk.c...69&d=1222679316
---------
10/27/08 EDIT: Updated the photo attachments to better show the concrete pier base which measures 10" square at the base and is 7.5" high (at the top of the concrete). Second photo with pipe mast screwed into mount. Third photo from overhead looking down at bullseye level and post level strapped around pipe mast. All materials are available off the shelf from Home Depot. The thumbnail attachments will expand to 640 x 480 size when clicked.

Attached Thumbnails

  • concrete_pier.jpg
  • with_pipe_mast.jpg
  • overhead_view_with_bullseye_and_post_level.jpg


#92 OFFLINE   Matt9876

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 02:18 PM

http://www.dbstalk.c...69&d=1222679316

Nice setup, Ordering SL3 head now !!

Thanks!!:)

#93 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 03:15 PM

I agree that the SL3 makes a nice difference in size, weight, and portability. The SL3 is now available from Solid Signal for $39.99 plus $9.95 shipping:
http://www.solidsign...y.asp?prod=SL-3


The link for the SL3 at Solid Signal is now:
http://www.solidsign...ay.asp?prod=SL3
(the hyphen is gone between the "SL" and "3" on the end, "SL3" instead of "SL-3" from prior url posted)

The price has dropped to $29.99 plus $9.95 shipping.

#94 OFFLINE   jmikestock

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 04:53 PM

Being a Newbie, have stuck to reading and not much posting, but I have something to share on this topic.

Being an RV user and currently hauling a Slimline 5 around I have a keen interest in the topic.

I talked to a DTV tech (one of the real ones) and asked if there was a smaller 99/101/103 dish in our future. He said that there was a team working on the project and the project name was "Main BanK". He also said that they planned to have the smaller version out in November and to call back and ask for someone on the project, by name. Not sure what part of November but I plan to follow up.

#95 OFFLINE   Flugelman

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:41 PM

Being a Newbie, have stuck to reading and not much posting, but I have something to share on this topic.

Being an RV user and currently hauling a Slimline 5 around I have a keen interest in the topic.

I talked to a DTV tech (one of the real ones) and asked if there was a smaller 99/101/103 dish in our future. He said that there was a team working on the project and the project name was "Main BanK". He also said that they planned to have the smaller version out in November and to call back and ask for someone on the project, by name. Not sure what part of November but I plan to follow up.


RV user here also, thinking about going DVR at some point. I see a SWM SL3 in my future. Let us know what you find out.

HR34-700

Vizio M321i-A2

Slimline SL3 SWM


#96 OFFLINE   Rockaway1836

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 12:44 PM

I just took a shot at this. I used a WNC 5LNB along with a Thomson Phase 3 dish. I'm getting signals from 100 to 91 on the 101 Sat , 88 to 95 On 103b, 77 to 88 on 99a. I'm also getting zilch on 119 and 40 and 47 on 110. (but who cares) The hardest thing about it was dealing with the little lip on the end of the LNB. I took a pair of vice grips and bent out the arm just a smidge. Just enough for the lip to pass through. The holes then lined up, and I was able to use the phase 3 screws to secure it. Then a little TLC in aiming and that was it. The whole job took me about an hour. Thanks Matt !!!! This was a great idea you had !!!!

#97 OFFLINE   Bkegg

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 03:52 AM

In Houston we just recieved the SL3. I played with this idea as well just for fun.

One thing I found that may help you out is instead of altering the feed arm so the notch of the SL3 fits in. Shave the notch off. This allows a more secure fit and also doesn't risk altering the feed arm. They are set at a certain angle and length to receive the signals polarity in just the right way.

Positives:

Very portable

Less intrusive if you live in an apartment this may be a better option for you than the larger KAKU that weighs 3 times more.

18x20 is designed to cover a 35 degree window. The SL3 (99,101,103) only spans 20 degrees.

Negatives:

1. Smaller dish less signal strenght - Nice intergration but 100% quality can be recieved off a paper plate and a dual LNB. The smaller 18X20 will fade out in rain or a good gust of wind while the house next door with the real KAKU is still watching HD.

2. Fine tuning the KA signal free hand is not going to pass the ODU validation process.


Practical applications: RV and Apartments



That said installers this is more likely to cause a repeat call on you. Do not try this on a customers home.

#98 OFFLINE   jmikestock

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:12 PM

Just got my Phase III off Ebay and installed the 99/101/103 in place of the existing rack. Worked like a charm, but definitely sensitive to movement. I'm sure bad weather would be a potential problem but I guess I can always revert back to SD programming off 101 until the storm passes.

Sure beats wrestling with that big mother every time I set up the RV, not to mention the storage problem.

#99 OFFLINE   Mertzen

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 02:03 PM

I wonder if it would be easier modding an eastern arch dish from DN. It has dither EL control and fits SD dish pipe. Costly though.
No longer doing DBS work, but missing every moment of it.

#100 OFFLINE   Beefcake

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:02 PM

Why? That POS is the worst dish D* has ever made.


AMEN!
AU9 Slimline3
LR- HR21-100>52" Samsung LCD
LR- H23-600>19" Polaroid LCD
Master BR HR20-700>32" Samsung LCD mirrored to Kit Tv(RCA)
Spare HR20-100 and R15-100




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