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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Experimental Small Slimline3 Dish


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462 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 12:01 PM

Anyone know what channels are on the 99 sat? I know our HD locals are on 103 and most every other channel I know of, so I tended to try to favor that sat.


These links should help:

http://www.lyngsat.c...rectvusa99.html
http://www.lyngsat.c...ectvusa103.html

http://www.dbstalk.c...863&postcount=2

http://www.digitalca...x.php?view=full

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#62 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 12:17 PM

OK...I got the LNB in the dish arm, and adjusted the elevation and tilt to the settings for the 5 LNB, but I was unable to get a signal on 101. I think this might be due to the narrow tolerances that I have b/c the window is pretty small. As it stands now, the dish is pointing pretty much straight out the window, but it is keying of 110. The 5 LNB keys off 101, so the dish needs to go to the right, and I think this might be where I am having problems.


Nice window setup. Here are some ideas/ things to try.

Think you said you're in San Francisco, try using the signal meters for Sat 101, transponder 20 to initially point the dish. Transponder 20 is a spot beam and should give you the strongest signal from 101. Plus, transponder 20 doesn't exist on 119 nor 110, so you won't be getting false reads. From there you can fine tune and peak the signal.

Also dishpointer.com will draw a line of sight to the 101 on a satellite view. Use the Directv 5 lnb selection option. That should give you a good idea of what buildings to aim toward in the distance, i.e. the right azimuth. Once you have it pointed in the general right direction, try adjusting the elevation +/- quite a bit and you should find 101 if you're looking on transponder 20.

#63 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 12:26 PM

The 5 LNB keys off 101, so the dish needs to go to the right, and I think this might be where I am having problems.


Read your post again and this might be the issue: 101 should be about 13 degrees to the left (not right) from where you had your phase III aimed (at 110). In other words, point the phase III dish with the 5lnb further to the left from where you had it pointed with the original triple head (101/110/119).

#64 OFFLINE   Matt9876

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 12:35 PM

Post #48 updated with:

EDIT:The highest Ka signal numbers so far is when the LNB is fully inserted and flush in the arm tube.

Drilling new holes in the tube arm at the correct place and using the normal hardware to secure the LNB is a great option.:)

Edited by Matt9876, 23 September 2009 - 10:56 AM.
more information


#65 OFFLINE   james2006

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 09:57 AM

Thanks to all those who made suggestions, I was able to get the minislimline working for the most part.

It turns out one of my elevation nuts was too lose, which was throwing everything off, It also didn't help that I was under the mistaken belief that 101 was to the right of 110...shows you how stupid I can be without a compass.

Anyway, I was able to get signals on the 101 between 80 and 90 (remember with the old three lnb I was getting mid 80-90's). The catch is that I was able to get 103 in the 70's and 99 in the high 60's, but only one at a time. Given that I only use the dish for Sunday Ticket (Comcrap for day-to-day viewing) this doesn't really matter that much. It appears that most Sunday ticket games are on 99, and if I need to move over to 103 I can walk the 5 feet to the dish and adjust the tilt

I might be able to get higher signals if I work at it a bit more, but the end result is that I'm really excited that I won't have to watch the Red Zone channel or Chargers games in horrific SD anymore!

PS...an interesting note...it's true that the elevation for the slimline is LOWER than the 3LNB here in SF. I got the numbers straight off an HR21, and they appear to be correct.

#66 OFFLINE   Matt9876

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:47 AM

Glad you have it working! I also found out the slimline setup numbers were correct.

Maybe a sheet of plastic could block some of that winter air.

hope you enjoy all that HD football.:)

#67 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 03:30 PM

I did not work very hard at trying, but I took an old Phase III dish and stuck a Slimline LNB on it. Was able to get either 99 and 101, or 101 and 103. Could not find a sweet spot where I got all 3. Didn't have time to play with it any further though.

Carl

#68 OFFLINE   Matt9876

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 07:28 PM

I did not work very hard at trying, but I took an old Phase III dish and stuck a Slimline LNB on it. Was able to get either 99 and 101, or 101 and 103. Could not find a sweet spot where I got all 3. Didn't have time to play with it any further though.

Carl


A true balance between 99 and 103 is hard to achieve,I really have been busy lately but plan to invest more time in finding an adjustment that will help with this issue,also think Doctorj is working on the same thing.


I will be back in 2 or three days with more info.

#69 OFFLINE   kevinm34232

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 07:34 PM

Me aswell..

#70 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 08:31 PM

Still working.
Agree getting all 3 > 60's at the same time has been difficult.
Am working on focal length, angle of lnb and even angle of dish attachment.
Also an RV mod to "fine tune " elevation may be of some help.
Will report substantial changes.
By the way , have 2 SL3 lnb's that I am going to throw into the mix.

Doctor j

MFH-2 System : 2 Major Viewing Areas. 2 x HR20-700's & H21 in each area via E2/SWM-8. Hardwire gigabit switch to 30 mb/sec internet.


#71 OFFLINE   kevinm34232

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 02:24 AM

If there was a way to fine tune/dither it would be I think mid 80's on 99 and 103 would be typical.

#72 OFFLINE   dacoop2

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 09:07 AM

Noob question here...

Would it be possible to tie in two Phase III dishes (one getting the 99/101, and the other 101/103) via a multi-switch?

I have a phase III up now but have another one just lying around. I won't go into details of my situation at my apartment but a slimline is pretty much out of the question for me. If getting all three to work at once is quite a chore maybe that's an alternative?

Just throwing an idea out there (not a good one, but an idea nonetheless). :lol:

#73 OFFLINE   curt8403

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 12:57 PM

Noob question here...

Would it be possible to tie in two Phase III dishes (one getting the 99/101, and the other 101/103) via a multi-switch?

I have a phase III up now but have another one just lying around. I won't go into details of my situation at my apartment but a slimline is pretty much out of the question for me. If getting all three to work at once is quite a chore maybe that's an alternative?

Just throwing an idea out there (not a good one, but an idea nonetheless). :lol:


sorry, not possible, both sats are on the same lnb assembly, and use the same type of signal.
I am no longer connected with Directv or any other satellite provider

#74 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 08:46 AM

Noob question here...

Would it be possible to tie in two Phase III dishes (one getting the 99/101, and the other 101/103) via a multi-switch?

I have a phase III up now but have another one just lying around. I won't go into details of my situation at my apartment but a slimline is pretty much out of the question for me. If getting all three to work at once is quite a chore maybe that's an alternative?

Just throwing an idea out there (not a good one, but an idea nonetheless). :lol:


Actually yes, you may be able to do this. Both would have to use a 3 or 5 LNB KaKu LNB assembly. Feed the 13V/18V no tone inputs from one LNB to the mutliswitch, and the 13V/18V 22KHz inputs from the other LNB to the multiswitch.

99 and 101 will come from the no-tone and 103 from the 22KHz tone feeds.

Carl

#75 OFFLINE   kevinm34232

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 12:54 PM

Noob question here...

Would it be possible to tie in two Phase III dishes (one getting the 99/101, and the other 101/103) via a multi-switch?

I have a phase III up now but have another one just lying around. I won't go into details of my situation at my apartment but a slimline is pretty much out of the question for me. If getting all three to work at once is quite a chore maybe that's an alternative?

Just throwing an idea out there (not a good one, but an idea nonetheless). :lol:


Would kind of defeat the purpose though of a smaller dish.

Just received a Slimline 3 LNB, will post back changes if any when I use this over the 5LNB, but the smaller size is the real gain.

#76 OFFLINE   dacoop2

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 09:10 PM

Yeah, like I said...not the best idea. I'm just trying to think outside the box if I can't get decent signals on the 99 and 103 simultaneously. Still haven't received the slimline LNB yet but it should be arriving early in the week. Rain fade won't be as much of an issue here in sunny California as it would other places.

#77 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 07:55 PM

I tried both, the WNC seemed to fit better and 'seemed' easier to tweak settings but overall worked the same.


I believe the WNC and Eagle Aspen LNBs have mostly been discussed thus far in this thread. Here is some discussion and photos from working with the CalAmp 5 LNB & Eagle Aspen SL3 with the Phase III.

There are photos of a CalAmp 5lnb (model 151647) inserted into a Phase III 18x20" oval RCA dish arm posted here:
http://www.dbstalk.c...7&postcount=164

I found that in the case of the CalAmp LNB, the holes line up such that the mounting bolts can be passed through to secure the lnb with the key flush against the arm without notching out the arm mouth for the key.

Photo 1 attached below is the same CalAmp 5lnb inserted into the same lnb arm after I drilled a hole in the center at the lnb arm mouth opening and cut out more metal to make a notch for the key to be inserted. However, I wasn't able to fully insert the lnb such that the f connector metal block was completely concealed within the arm. This was NOT due to the key since you can see from the photo I cut out extra space. Instead, the F connector block is rubbing against the inside of the arm where the mouth narrows. This happens even without any cables connected to the outside F connectors. Originally I thought the connectors on the ends of the RG6 cables on the outside connections might be interfering so I took all the cables off to check and determined it was the F connector block. Plus the scrape marks from hitting the inside of the arm were evident on the outside of the F connector block when I pulled it back out. Also, note that you can still see a bit of the mounting holes on the F connector block with it pushed in as far as it will go in this case. The mounting holes of the F connector block don't fully pass the holes of the arm (but almost). I was thinking of grinding/filing down the F connector block on the outside edge and/or notching/drilling out the arm mouth where it narrows in order to get the lnb fully seated, however I've noticed that by leaving some play you can angle the lnb downward more toward the center of the dish and produce better signal strength by getting more signal reflected down the throat of the feed horn. I initially posted this finding in another thread here in response to Doctor J:
http://www.dbstalk.c...6&postcount=172

In that same thread I have posted more pictures which might be helpful for this project. See posts 161, 163, 164, & 165. Also, there are links to more lnb photos in post 173.

For the Eagle Aspen 5 LNB are you able to fully seat it within the arm with the entire F connector metal block concealed within the arm after notching the phase III arm? I was not able to fully insert the Eagle Aspen SL3 into the same phase III arm. In photo 2 attached below, that was as far as I could insert it. The F connector block for the Eagle Aspen SL3 is a bit larger than the CalAmp's so it hits the insides of the arm mouth and doesn't come as near to flush as does the CalAmp 5lnb. Interestingly, at full insertion the mounting holes are in line though - note the bolts passing through.

I wonder if the narrowing of the mouth on the lnb arm varies between dish manufacturers? I was working with a RCA phase III that is shown in the photos. Perhaps another make does not narrow as quickly as the RCA - that would be good to know.


LNB heads that work well in this phase 3 dish configuration.

Slimline 3 head with receiver set to slimline 3. "Best all around operation"

WNC AU9 5 LNB (white caps) with receiver set to slimline 3. "Very good operation"

Eagle Aspen (clear covers) 5 LNB with receiver set to slimline 3. " works good"

Use slimline setup numbers to do course alignment of 101 signal, use 99(c/a) and 103(c/a) meter readings to fine tune Ka band HD operation.:)

Use the normal screws/nuts in the pre drilled holes of the arm and LNB assembly, this alignment occurs when the LNB is inserted about half way.

EDIT:The highest Ka signal numbers so far is when the LNB is fully inserted and flush in the arm tube,secure with small self tapping screws just behind the predrilled holes on the bottom of the arm tube "away from the LNB" Do this only if you feel they are needed to secure the LNB head.

1/4 inch hex head 1/4 inch long self taping screws work best, this lands the screw in a safe place.

also drilling new holes in the tube arm at the correct place and using the normal hardware to secure the LNB is a great option as well.:)

The key on the bottom of the LNB must pass to the inside of the dish arm tube,this can be done with a flat blade screw driver or metal nipper to make a notch for the key to fit into.


Matt, I'm very curious on this point:" The highest Ka signal numbers so far is when the LNB is fully inserted and flush in the arm tube"

Can you confirm which LNB model(s) you were able to fully insert and get flush? Was this the case for both the Eagle Aspen 5 LNB and the WNC 5 LNB? If the Eagle Aspen 5lnb can be fully inserted then a) the F connector block must be different on the Eagle Aspen SL3 or B) the lnb arm mouth opening must be different on the dish tested.

And which make dish were you inserting into? I am trying to determine/pinpoint if the variation is in the LNBs, the dish arms, or both. THANKS - Tad.

Attached Thumbnails

  • CalAmp5lnb_inserted.jpg
  • sl3_inserted.jpg


#78 OFFLINE   lwilli201

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 09:28 PM

Is there a problem with getting the quide data with this setup?
1-HR21-100, 2-HR21-700, 1 w/eSATA, all networked, unsupported MRV. AT9 Dish(110 & 119 disabled) and SWM8.

#79 OFFLINE   Matt9876

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 06:00 AM

Is there a problem with getting the quide data with this setup?


If you use a slimline 3 head no problem with guide data.:)

With a 5LNB and the receiver unit set to slimline 3 after three days of testing revealed no problems with H20s guide data, some have suggested that if the unit wasn't left on a SD (101 sat channel) overnight you could have a loss of guide data.

If you did have an issue pressing the reset button will cause it to start reloading the guide data.

#80 OFFLINE   tadfad

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 11:51 AM

Is there a problem with getting the quide data with this setup?


There are numerous posts on this topic in various threads, but this post by Texasbrit sums it up well:

http://www.dbstalk.c...84&postcount=12




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