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Dish New FCC Filings on Ciel-2 Satellite


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33 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   rocatman

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 08:45 AM

Have not had a chance to read it all but here is the FCC website address on the recent Dish filings for the Ciel-2 satellite:

http://licensing.fcc...erC/File Number

Looks like 16 TPs for CONUS-ConCanada and 16 TPs for spotbeams. 53 spotbeams across North America including Alaska and Hawaii.

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#2 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 05:06 PM

Cool ... thanks!

#3 OFFLINE   rocatman

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 08:01 AM

Any chance we will see CONUS and spotbeam coverage for Ciel-2 in the near future?

#4 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 09:34 AM

I'm working on the math. Schedule S was included in the filing, which has the outlines. I ran out of steam making the maps last night.

#5 OFFLINE   rocatman

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 09:41 AM

I'm working on the math. Schedule S was included in the filing, which has the outlines. I ran out of steam making the maps last night.


That's understandable. Monitoring the TIVO thread takes a lot of energy!!!!

#6 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 09:44 AM

Life exists outside of DBSTalk ... (please don't ban me for suggesting that). :lol:

#7 OFFLINE   HDRoberts

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 11:14 AM

Here are a few quick and dirty maps I made with ArcGIS. Unfortunetly, I lack the took to turn the points into contours, and it only based on the gain numbers. But it gives you the idea.

Attached Thumbnails

  • ciel2-spotcenters.jpg
  • Ciel2CONUS.jpg
  • ciel2SB25.jpg


#8 OFFLINE   rocatman

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 11:42 AM

Here are a few quick and dirty maps I made with ArcGIS. Unfortunetly, I lack the took to turn the points into contours, and it only based on the gain numbers. But it gives you the idea.


Certainly it would be great to have the contours but it would also be interesting to know which TPs are available in which spotbeam. As I have stated elsewhere, I don't think there will be clean lines of demarcation between the Eastern Arc and Western Arc. Obviously the Northeast U.S. will be in the Eastern Arc and the West Coast in the Western Arc but spotbeam availability will determine what Arc the rest of the country will be in. I also think that Dish looked at Ciel-2 as a backup to the spotbeams from E-10 at 110 W.

#9 OFFLINE   HDRoberts

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 01:48 PM

Certainly it would be great to have the contours but it would also be interesting to know which TPs are available in which spotbeam. As I have stated elsewhere, I don't think there will be clean lines of demarcation between the Eastern Arc and Western Arc. Obviously the Northeast U.S. will be in the Eastern Arc and the West Coast in the Western Arc but spotbeam availability will determine what Arc the rest of the country will be in. I also think that Dish looked at Ciel-2 as a backup to the spotbeams from E-10 at 110 W.


I think this may be the table you are looking for. That, or an odd coincidence that the transmitters are numbered 1-32. Looks as if TPs 1-16 are for spots, and 18-32 are continental (US and/or Canada), and 17 is flexable. Please note, there is a lot of duplication as things were further divided by uplink beam.

Attached Files



#10 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 02:12 PM

141 spot transponders on the first 16 transponders? Not bad! :D

#11 OFFLINE   HDRoberts

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 02:16 PM

Better yet, here is an updated map showing spot centers and which TPs feed them, provided I'm interpeting the Schedule S right.

Attached Thumbnails

  • ciel2-spotcenterswithTPs.jpg


#12 OFFLINE   rocatman

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 02:20 PM

I think this may be the table you are looking for. That, or an odd coincidence that the transmitters are numbered 1-32. Looks as if TPs 1-16 are for spots, and 18-32 are continental (US and/or Canada), and 17 is flexable. Please note, there is a lot of duplication as things were further divided by uplink beam.


Yes, this is what I was looking for. I hope this isn't too long and perhaps James Long or someone else will present this better but here are the TP # for each spotbeam. Looks like a fair number of single TP spotbeams.

SB01 - 5, 7, 9, 10, 12
SB04 - 8, 10
SB05 - 11, 12
SB06 - 13
SB07 - 12
SB08 - 9
SB09 - 2
SB10 - 13, 14, 15, 16
SB11 - 4, 6
SB12 - 5, 7, 8
SB13 - 2
SB14 - 13, 14, 15, 16
SB15 - 10, 12
SB16 - 1, 3, 5, 7, 9
SB17 - 2
SB18 - 1, 3
SB19 - 4, 6, 15
SB20 - 5, 7
SB21 - 1, 3
SB22 - 9, 11, 13, 15
SB23 - 14, 16
SB24 - 5, 7
SB25 - 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8
SB26 - 10, 12
SB27 - 14, 16
SB28 - 2
SB29 - 4, 6, 8
SB30 - 10, 12, 17
SB31 - 9, 11
SB32 - 8, 10, 13, 15, 17
SB33 - 4, 6, 9, 11, 12
SB34 - 5, 7
SB35 - 8, 10
SB36 - 9, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16
SB37 - 1, 3
SB38 - 13, 14, 16
SB39 - 5, 7, 15, 17
SB40 - 1, 3, 14, 16
SB41 - 2, 5, 7
SB42 - 9, 11
SB43 - 2, 4, 6, 8
SB44 - 9, 11
SB45 - 3
SB46 - 11
SB47 - 1, 3
SB48 - 10, 12, 17
SB49 - 6, 8
SB50 - 3, 10, 12
SB51 - 14, 16
SB52 - 4, 13, 15
SB53 - 5, 7, 13, 15
SB54 - 2, 4, 6, 8
SB55 - 2, 4, 6, 14, 16

#13 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 02:29 PM

HDRobert's map does a graphic presentation quite well. Thanks!

(I should be able to do contours later.)

#14 OFFLINE   HDRoberts

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 02:31 PM

Since they aren't on my map, SB1 is Alaska and SB55 is Hawaii, so eveyone knows.

#15 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 02:36 PM

Hmmm. Curious about the spots over Sacramento area. Depending on the contours could be used for alot of alternative configurations.

#16 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 08:31 PM

Doing a little digging and drawing. My computer isn't cooperating. :(

I've attached the transponder database out of the Schedule S MDB ... it appears that there are spots on all of the transponders (even though the narrative discusses spots on 1-17 only). Only 17-32 can be ConUS.

CORRECTION: I misread my own chart ... the UPLINKS on transponders 17-32 feed SPOT DOWNLINKS on 1-32 (except the few flexible ones on TP 17). 18-32 are ConUS only, 17 is flexible, 1-16 are spots only.

I've turned it into a table on my website and placed it on my spots page:
http://jameslong.name/e-spots.html

The PDF is the Canada and ConUS coverage drawn by my computer.

If my computer cooperates I'll do more. :)

Attached Files



#17 OFFLINE   HDRoberts

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 09:25 PM

Doing a little digging and drawing. My computer isn't cooperating. :(

I've attached the transponder database out of the Schedule S MDB ... it appears that there are spots on all of the transponders (even though the narrative discusses spots on 1-17 only). Only 17-32 can be ConUS.

I've turned it into a table on my website and placed it on my spots page:
http://jameslong.name/e-spots.html

The PDF is the Canada and ConUS coverage drawn by my computer.

If my computer cooperates I'll do more. :)


What EIRP are you using for your boundary coverage? I think it may cover just a bit more (although my understanding may be wrong, see my question below)

I might load my ArcGIS trial on my PC tomorrow night. It includes the extension for contour drawing, which my work PC lacks. I've never used it before, but it doesn't sound that hard. One question, is the EIRP at a point the max EIRP + the gain at that point (a negative value), or is more involved?

#18 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 12:32 AM

This appears to be way over my head at this point, but does this mean alot of space for ConUS nationals or alot of space for US locals or both or just some space for both?

#19 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 01:20 AM

What EIRP are you using for your boundary coverage? I think it may cover just a bit more (although my understanding may be wrong, see my question below)

I normally use the -10 and -6 dB contours ... this time I pulled the "service area" contours from the files but all of the spots are not represented.

This appears to be way over my head at this point, but does this mean alot of space for ConUS nationals or alot of space for US locals or both or just some space for both?

A lot of space for both.

Half of the satellite is dedicated to spot beams. There is nothing else that can be done on TP1 through TP16 (other than allow another satellite to use those transponders ... such as leaving E5 in service but switching it to it's highest power mode instead of "as many transponders as possible"). Spot beams are best used for local channels ... and there are a lot of spots on this beast.

The other half is dedicated to ConUS or Canada beams. Ciel can choose to use those transponders to serve Canada or the US. It appears that there is some spotbeam use possible on the upper channels as well. With no apparent Canadian interest in space on the satellite that leaves a lot of space for ConUS channels.

It won't be up to help with "by the end of the year" predictions/promises but just over 1100 HD locals on spots (maximum) and just over 100 HD ConUS channels (maximum) is good capacity.

#20 OFFLINE   HDRoberts

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 04:39 AM

I normally use the -10 and -6 dB contours ... this time I pulled the "service area" contours from the files but all of the spots are not represented.


I used the -10dB gain from the "beam" information. That corresponds to the green "dots" on my previous map, which looks like it covers slightly more.




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