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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Directv using 1080P/24 capable encoders


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29 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   lwilli201

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 02:55 PM

According to the this article, Directv has encoders capable of encoding in 1080P/24. Does this mean that 1080P/24 could be used for mainstream content and that the DOD testing just a prelude to that?

http://www.broadcast.../CA6596049.html
1-HR21-100, 2-HR21-700, 1 w/eSATA, all networked, unsupported MRV. AT9 Dish(110 & 119 disabled) and SWM8.

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#2 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 02:59 PM

Anything is possible.

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#3 OFFLINE   LarryFlowers

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 03:00 PM

[quote name='lwilli201']According to the this article, Directv has encoders capable of encoding in 1080P/24. Does this mean that 1080P/24 could be used for mainstream content and that the DOD testing just a prelude to that?

http://www.broadcast...049.html[/quote]

There is NO 1080p content currently available from any channel source.. so the answer for now is "no" and the channel source's aren't likely to change it anytime soon... they are still paying for the current upgrade :lol: and some of them (Fox and ABC for example) who are transmitting in 720 not even 1080i.

Also I am not sure of the exact multiplier, but the bandwidth demand for 1080p is substantially more than 1080i.
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#4 OFFLINE   bwaldron

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 03:02 PM

Anything is possible.


But not probable. :)

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#5 OFFLINE   lwilli201

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 03:06 PM

But no one can say that Directv can not do it because of the hardware they have.
1-HR21-100, 2-HR21-700, 1 w/eSATA, all networked, unsupported MRV. AT9 Dish(110 & 119 disabled) and SWM8.

#6 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 03:09 PM

I expect we will see actual 1080P/24 channels before the end of the year...

Granted, I expect most if not all of them will be PPV channels, (1-5 channels) but still, they will come... I think the real key is getting software on ALL HD MPEG-4 boxes that can handle the 1080P/24 picture and output it, even if its output at 1080i before we see these channels pop up... but I definitely think they are coming, and faster than most think.. There is absolutly no reason NOT to move to them, over time.... Movie channels would be the channels to go that route...

#7 OFFLINE   bwaldron

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 03:10 PM

I expect we will see actual 1080P/24 channels before the end of the year...

Granted, I expect most if not all of them will be PPV channels


Yep, that is possible. I wasn't thinking about the PPV when I considered "channels."

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#8 OFFLINE   LarryFlowers

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 03:13 PM

Yep, that is possible. I wasn't thinking about the PPV when I considered "channels."


Me neither... I was thinking in terms of normal channels.
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#9 ONLINE   P Smith

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 08:35 PM

....
Also I am not sure of the exact multiplier, but the bandwidth demand for 1080p is substantially more than 1080i.


Would you tell us in term of bandwidth ? In Mbps for example.

Spoiler


#10 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 09:09 PM

Would you tell us in term of bandwidth ? In Mbps for example.

Mission Impossible III, 1080p/24 VOD.
I monitored my network traffic while playing it with DirecTV2PC. Average net = 6-8 Mb/s. During the 10 min I monitored it just now, the low was 5 Mb/s and I had 1- 10Mb/s & 2 - 11 Mb/s peaks, which may or may not be other services running on this PC.
This seems to match the download time for the three 1080p movies I've downloaded. With my 5 Mb/s DSL, it takes about 1.5 times the movie length to download them.
While I don't foresee the networks broadcasting 1080p, it looks like premium HD movie channels, PPV, etc. "could be" doing this "soon". The CE software currently has this feature for DVRs and this would only leave the non recorders to have new software.
A.K.A VOS

#11 ONLINE   P Smith

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 09:33 PM

Umm, that spoiled number came from Dish's DOD 1080p24 movies(IAL, 10K BC) by monitoring TS [video];
I see DTV doing much more video compression :(.

#12 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 09:36 PM

Umm, that spoiled number came from Dish's DOD 1080p24 movies(IAL, 10K BC); I see DTV doing much more video compression:(.

But they [the three movies] do look great.
MI3, Bucket list, & Bank Job

Someone said that given enough time [not on the fly], the encoding can be done where they can compress the "stuff" out of it and not lose PQ.
A.K.A VOS

#13 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 10:05 PM

Everyone seems to be missing something here. Most regular HD channels on DirecTV are 1080i/60. 1080p/24 is actually less bandwidth than 1080i/60. So there's no real reason why DirecTv shouldn't broadcast 1080p/24 for MOVIES, which are from a 24fps source anyway. But the picture quality won't in general be any better than movies broadcast today in 1080i/60, because 1080p Tvs with decent technology are capable of reconsituting the original 1080p/24 signals from a 1080i/60 movie. Go and google "3:2 pulldown" if you want to know how this works.
Personally I don't know why there is all this fuss about 1080p/24, IMHO it's mainly a marketing thing rather than an advance in technology. Now if it were 1080p/60 that's another thing.....

#14 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 10:22 PM

Everyone seems to be missing something here. Most regular HD channels on DirecTV are 1080i/60. 1080p/24 is actually less bandwidth than 1080i/60. So there's no real reason why DirecTv shouldn't broadcast 1080p/24 for MOVIES, which are from a 24fps source anyway. But the picture quality won't in general be any better than movies broadcast today in 1080i/60, because 1080p Tvs with decent technology are capable of reconsituting the original 1080p/24 signals from a 1080i/60 movie. Go and google "3:2 pulldown" if you want to know how this works.
Personally I don't know why there is all this fuss about 1080p/24, IMHO it's mainly a marketing thing rather than an advance in technology. Now if it were 1080p/60 that's another thing.....

I may be way off but, if the program is @ 24 f/s, then doesn't it make more/better sense to send it that way? Let the processing be done at the end of the stream, by either the TV or the receiver.
My TV [XBR2] is a "lousy" 1080p/60 so I have to watch the 1080p programing in 1080i and only my PC(s) can display 1080p/60.
If it starts as "film" then why interlace?
Doesn't this require "more" processing to be added?
I'll leave "the math" to others and they can do a bit/pixel count between the two.
A.K.A VOS

#15 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:12 PM

Everyone seems to be missing something here. Most regular HD channels on DirecTV are 1080i/60. 1080p/24 is actually less bandwidth than 1080i/60. So there's no real reason why DirecTv shouldn't broadcast 1080p/24 for MOVIES, which are from a 24fps source anyway. But the picture quality won't in general be any better than movies broadcast today in 1080i/60, because 1080p Tvs with decent technology are capable of reconsituting the original 1080p/24 signals from a 1080i/60 movie. Go and google "3:2 pulldown" if you want to know how this works.
Personally I don't know why there is all this fuss about 1080p/24, IMHO it's mainly a marketing thing rather than an advance in technology. Now if it were 1080p/60 that's another thing.....



Progresive at the same rate and resolution is inherantly going to give you a better picture...

And frankly, the 1080P I've seen so far is definetly a better picture... The less stuff you add to a signal, the better it looks... and anything using 2:3 pull down is going to add extra stuff, and loose other stuff... the more pure on the way in, the more pure on the way out... It makes a difference...

And if they can save a little bandwidth while they are at it... Why not!

#16 OFFLINE   jacmyoung

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 12:32 AM

Based on the dowload time for all the 1080p movies, I agree the sizes of the files are probably smaller than the usual 1080i/60 shows. Unlike the regular shows though, no visible over-compression, PQ has been top notch on the 1080p movies except 48 Hours, which is an old film transfer, or a bad transfer.

I don't see why not some 1080p/24 PPV channels.

#17 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 07:51 AM

Progresive at the same rate and resolution is inherantly going to give you a better picture...

And frankly, the 1080P I've seen so far is definetly a better picture... The less stuff you add to a signal, the better it looks... and anything using 2:3 pull down is going to add extra stuff, and loose other stuff... the more pure on the way in, the more pure on the way out... It makes a difference...

And if they can save a little bandwidth while they are at it... Why not!


I think you are not quite getting my point. "Progressive at the same rate and resolution is inherently going to give you a better picture" - 1080p/24 is at a lower rate than 1080i/60. The only reason 1080p/24 works for film-based movie material is that the movie was shot at 24fps, there are no more frames to transmit, so there is no value in increasing the frame rate. You would not use 1080p/24 for anything else except film-based material.
And I think you would find it hard to see the difference between 1080i/60 and 1080p/24 on film-based material using a 1080p TV with a decent pull-down reversal system. That's not to say there might not be minor differences, particularly if the pull-down reversal system on the TV is poor, but it's hardly a breakthrough.

Here's an article for those interested in this topic http://www.hometheat...t-to-remove-it/

#18 ONLINE   P Smith

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:39 AM

Based on the dowload time for all the 1080p movies, I agree the sizes of the files are probably smaller than the usual 1080i/60 shows. Unlike the regular shows though, no visible over-compression, PQ has been top notch on the 1080p movies except 48 Hours, which is an old film transfer, or a bad transfer.

I don't see why not some 1080p/24 PPV channels.

Dish's 1080p24 movies took 11 GB size on a disk.

#19 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:41 AM

I wonder about pricing on these. are they going to advertise it as 1080p and charge more? if so what happens if people don't know if their tv does 24 and it reverts to 1080i.
guess will see as time goes on.
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#20 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:56 AM

Dish's 1080p24 movies took 11 GB size on a disk.

If DirecTV's are 8 Mb/s, then doesn't this workout to something like 3.6 Gigabytes/hour?
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