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Frustration with Timer


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16 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   FastNOC

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 07:28 PM

Before I start let me state that I'm aware that timers are at the mercy of guide data, but there are some serious problems here.

This only happens on specific events. But let's go through this one. The World Series of Poker on ESPN.

I have a timer set to record this show. only new events. It ignores this and records every single episode that's played. Even though they all show the episode number at the info screen.

Not only that, but it fails to recognize that the event is already recorded. So if left untouched, it will record every single replay of the same episode. This of course is a huge problem if you have the timer on a high priority which I do.

it's so bad I've resorted to canceling the event and each week I have to manually set a recording because the guide data only goes out a week.

I've tried this manually with Dish Pass, and a regular timer with no success.

This is an extremely frustrating problem. And it's not the only show it happens on. it has a tendency to ignore dates and episodes on NASCAR too.

Anything I can try? This looks to me like such a basic failure.

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#2 OFFLINE   mercator1

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:43 PM

Just set a manual timer for that time and channel.

#3 OFFLINE   FastNOC

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 10:57 PM

it changes

#4 OFFLINE   lujan

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:21 AM

I know others have opposed my suggestion because they say why have these additional features and NEVER use them. I only set manual timers even though I have to set them every week. I have never had problems (with the exception of losing timers if there is no guide) using manual timers. I don't use dishpass or timers that are weekly, daily, new, etc. I use only manual timers because all the others are unreliable.
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#5 OFFLINE   FastNOC

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:24 AM

That completely defeats the purpose of timers to start, but i have 85 events. manually? every week? no way.

I noticed they just changed the time again for next week.

#6 OFFLINE   lujan

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:28 AM

Like I said, others have opposed my suggestion. I barely have enough time to see all the shows I record. Your TV must be on 24/7.
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#7 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:33 AM

Usually when this comes up it means that the Meta data for this particular event is not correct. By Meta Data I mean information that would define a show. Air Date, Episode Number and Show ID. From the posts here about other shows that exhibit this behavior, when this information is not accurate the VIP receiver does the right thing (conservative approach) and does records the show. Bottom line it is a guide issue. I will set a timer for this show over the weekend and see if I see the same behavior.

One thing you can do is set a weekly or daily timer if the shows is on at a given time that you can rely on. That way you won't capture the dups on different time slots at least. Also, It is not a known fact but with weekly or daily timers if the show you set moves 4 hours in ether direction it still will capture the show. Actually I am not sure if it is 2 hours in either direction or 4 hours, but i am pretty sure it is 4.
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#8 OFFLINE   CABill

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 04:17 PM

I don't believe there is anything wrong with the data for WSP. I selected the show and picked New episodes, and have never had it record something it shouldn't. Looking at the timer now, it will record 10/14 at 6PM PDT but will skip the 7PM show by Priority (it periodically move this toward the end of priority). It will pickup the skipped 7PM episode on 10/15 at midnight or 1AM, didn't check.

I'd vote for a problem with the receiver, or someone having picked Restore All. Maybe, delete the WSP timer(s) and start anew to see what shows up for scheduled New episodes. If more than two appear for the coming week, maybe others could try to duplicate the problem. I can duplicate the Timer and have no problems.

#9 OFFLINE   E91

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 05:07 PM

I've only had my 722 for a week. I have to say, however, that my old DirecTIVO boxes NEVER did this. Not even once.

And, before I switched, I wrote a good friend who has E* and asked him what he thought of the DVR. He loves it, but complained of similar problems as the original poster.

#10 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 05:18 PM

Perhaps the guide data info is more accurate or it is possible TIVO does other things to determine what makes show a duplicate or what qualifies a show as old or new. Since i don't use TIVO, I don't know. However, I have read posts over the years from the D* side of the fence about similar issues so I know this type of situation is not a Dish only Phenomena.
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#11 OFFLINE   CABill

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 06:36 PM

DirecTiVo users have reported the exact same issue for years. DirecTiVo uses the same source that DISH does - Tribune. DISH didn't switch to Tribune until after 2000, but it switched long before the Tribune copyright appeared.

See http://groups.google...addaed77581ef02 for a description of the TiVo method of determining "new". DISH NBR and DirecTiVo record duplicates of the Daily Show episodes, and have for years.

#12 OFFLINE   E91

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 01:50 AM

DirecTiVo users have reported the exact same issue for years. DirecTiVo uses the same source that DISH does - Tribune. DISH didn't switch to Tribune until after 2000, but it switched long before the Tribune copyright appeared.

See http://groups.google...addaed77581ef02 for a description of the TiVo method of determining "new". DISH NBR and DirecTiVo record duplicates of the Daily Show episodes, and have for years.



I have been running two DirecTIVOs in my house for over five years. I never once had this problem occur.

If it does occur with DirecTV, it is probably with their in house DVR (which, as you all probably know, is vastly inferior to both TIVO and the Dish VIP DVR).

#13 OFFLINE   CABill

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 07:48 AM

In house DVRs may have additional problems, but DirecTiVos have always had the problem with recording items with a missing episode number as "First Run" (the equivalent of DISH's "New").
http://www.dslreport...remark,14159308 is from 2005. I think that predates in house, but they specifically mention DirecTiVo as being used. Some of the in house DVRs no longer display First Run status, but any search should yield lots of DirecTiVo users recording repeats of the Daily Show (particularly on Mondays).

#14 OFFLINE   E91

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 04:56 PM

In house DVRs may have additional problems, but DirecTiVos have always had the problem with recording items with a missing episode number as "First Run" (the equivalent of DISH's "New").
http://www.dslreport...remark,14159308 is from 2005. I think that predates in house, but they specifically mention DirecTiVo as being used. Some of the in house DVRs no longer display First Run status, but any search should yield lots of DirecTiVo users recording repeats of the Daily Show (particularly on Mondays).



Well, again, I understand that some have had that problem. But, I've had four DirecTIVO boxes - beginning with the first generation. I used them for six years. Never once had the sort of problems being discussed here.

#15 OFFLINE   FastNOC

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 06:13 PM

yeah I had the same issue with my R10 at DirecTV.

It only happens on certain channels though, channels like ESPN that constantly replay new episodes. So maybe it's a global thing.

What I don't understand, even if I ignore the repeated recordings, is why it's recording another show that's in the dvr already. I know this doesn't always happen because when I scroll my schedule I see some shows crossed out, and the reason it gives is 'show exists in dvr'

#16 OFFLINE   CABill

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 08:42 AM

If you are recording WSP from channel 140 (ESPN2 has lots more WSP events than ESPN), none of the 5 events for your timer should show "Exists in DVR". My timer will record two events - episode 25 and 26, and the other three events show that they will be skipped - "Duplicate Event" (my 1st #26 is "By priority"). If you are using channel 140 and your WSP timer shows anything other than 2 to be recorded and 3 to be skipped, I'd delete the timer and create another "New" timer. If you do see 3 to be skipped, but it turns out they get recorded anyhow, I'd GUESS that your receiver has something messed up in the event history. If an event says "duplicate event", but the "original event" doesn't appear in the history (like the receiver lost power for 8 hours and missed the original), it will record something that was "crossed out" previously.

I'd see what happens to the 5 events that will occur in the next 9 days to identify what happens with your receiver. My 722 only records a single copy of each new episode.

#17 OFFLINE   E91

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 02:01 AM

If you are recording WSP from channel 140 (ESPN2 has lots more WSP events than ESPN), none of the 5 events for your timer should show "Exists in DVR". My timer will record two events - episode 25 and 26, and the other three events show that they will be skipped - "Duplicate Event" (my 1st #26 is "By priority"). If you are using channel 140 and your WSP timer shows anything other than 2 to be recorded and 3 to be skipped, I'd delete the timer and create another "New" timer. If you do see 3 to be skipped, but it turns out they get recorded anyhow, I'd GUESS that your receiver has something messed up in the event history. If an event says "duplicate event", but the "original event" doesn't appear in the history (like the receiver lost power for 8 hours and missed the original), it will record something that was "crossed out" previously.

I'd see what happens to the 5 events that will occur in the next 9 days to identify what happens with your receiver. My 722 only records a single copy of each new episode.


I have to hand it to you CaBill. This is really thoughtful and reasoned analysis that is probably going to help some of us head off these sort of glitches in the future.




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