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cat 5 wire question


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55 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Nabisco

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 06:25 PM

i ran the cat for my direc tv on demand and it didn't work so i tried the wireless kits and it works great, now is there any special thing i should do when i but the fittings on? i try by best to make sure the wires are going in the separate spots, what am i doing wrong? any help or easier way?

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#2 ONLINE   armophob

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 06:48 PM

i ran the cat for my direc tv on demand and it didn't work so i tried the wireless kits and it works great, now is there any special thing i should do when i but the fittings on? i try by best to make sure the wires are going in the separate spots, what am i doing wrong? any help or easier way?


You are just going to have to check continuity end to end on each wire using an ohm meter. Somewhere you have a break or a crimp not making contact.

#3 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 06:48 PM

what wire pattern are you using for the TP?
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#4 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 06:49 PM

They have to be in a specific order.. hope you have good eyesite..
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#5 OFFLINE   LarryFlowers

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 06:53 PM

i ran the cat for my direc tv on demand and it didn't work so i tried the wireless kits and it works great, now is there any special thing i should do when i but the fittings on? i try by best to make sure the wires are going in the separate spots, what am i doing wrong? any help or easier way?


Making your own network cables can be a daunting task, I would recommend that you find someone who has the proper tools and knows how to do it to show you or go to monoprice.com, dirt cheap and a crazy assortment of lengths... I repeat dirt cheap!
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#6 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 07:06 PM

Posted Image

It doesn't matter if you choose "A" or "B", but whichever you choose must be the same on both ends.

#7 OFFLINE   flipptyfloppity

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 07:16 PM

There is one other thing.

This is TWISTED pair cable, and it must remain twisted until very close to the connector. That is, it may be tempting to pull out a lot of cable, untwist it, strip it and put the end on. You need to untwist a very short amount (VERY short for cat6). And that includes both untwisting the two wires in each pair and the pairs from each other (which are braided with each other). I forget the exact specs, but don't unbraid the cable more than 3" and don't untwist each pair more than 1.5". That'll work for cat 5 and 5e for sure.
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#8 OFFLINE   Grentz

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 07:35 PM

To be honest, from lots of experience in making lots of network cables (it is part of my actual day job unlike directv that is a hobby ;) )...

1) It does not matter what pattern you use, you could even make up your own. Just as long as both ends are identical. The patterns are standards to help with backwards compatibility with some other formats and to minimize loss/interference, but in reality any should work for a simple run.

2) The easiest way to do a cable is to first take off the outer jacket, then untwist all the pairs and straighten them with your fingers. Dont worry about the length of untwisting yet, you can untwist a good 5" if you like to have plenty to work with.

Take your first color and hold it between two fingers (I usually do thumb and index finger), then slip in the other colors in order and hold them flat against your thumb. You should then have them lined up flat, close together, in order.

Slide down the cable back towards the jacketed area till you have just enough to do the connector, it does not have to be exact so for starters you probably want to leave an inch or so. Then snip the excess with a multistripper or scissors. Be sure the cut is straight and parallel (not at an angle) along the wires.

Now you can slide the wires into the end connector and make sure they go in without jumping into a different order. Push them in tight and make sure they go all the way to the end. Finally use your crimping tool to compress the connector.

Note that sometimes you do get a bad end piece that will not properly crimp on the wire, happens to a couple out of every hundred usually. Also make sure the wires remain in the proper order.

It is tougher than coax IMO, but with time and practice you get better at it. I used to be about 50/50 getting a good one, but after years of doing it I get them right almost every time (but of course still have a messed up one every now and then ;) )
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#9 OFFLINE   Wisegoat

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:03 PM

Use 568B. It is what all commercial installs require (at least if you are AMP/Tyco certified) and is more common. A lot of home installers do 568A, but I have been finding them done that way less and less now.

#10 OFFLINE   coolyman

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:11 PM

Posted Image

It doesn't matter if you choose "A" or "B", but whichever you choose must be the same on both ends.


Wow. That is the best pic for this ever. Where did you find it?

#11 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:53 PM

1) It does not matter what pattern you use, you could even make up your own. Just as long as both ends are identical.


Not true - you still need to keep pairing to the applicable pins on the connector. I agree, it doesn't matter which PAIR you put where, but it does matter if you split pairs. And unless you know what each pin does (in various assignments/applications), it is a whole lot safer to stay with a defined standard such as 568A or B.

#12 OFFLINE   Chop69

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 09:08 PM

Not true - you still need to keep pairing to the applicable pins on the connector. I agree, it doesn't matter which PAIR you put where, but it does matter if you split pairs. And unless you know what each pin does (in various assignments/applications), it is a whole lot safer to stay with a defined standard such as 568A or B.


My experience is that as long as both ends are the same, and the run is not too long, it will work for 10/100. When I first started cutting cables, I would do B/wB G/wG O/wO B/wB, in that order on both ends. They tested fine on my cheapo tester, and would work, they wouldn't do GigE or work for long runs (It was Cat5e.) Sure enough I went back and cut them with T568B and the same cable would handle it just fine.

If you want to make your own cables, don't skimp on cheap tools. Get a good crimper and a good tester. It will save you over the long run. (Pun intended :D )

#13 OFFLINE   Grentz

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 09:23 PM

Not true - you still need to keep pairing to the applicable pins on the connector. I agree, it doesn't matter which PAIR you put where, but it does matter if you split pairs. And unless you know what each pin does (in various assignments/applications), it is a whole lot safer to stay with a defined standard such as 568A or B.


You should have quoted my entire thought ;)

As I said, for SIMPLE runs it is fine. You are correct and in any properly done system you should go by the standards (particularly B nowadays), but the fact remains that in a relatively short circumstance in a simple setup, as long as the ends are both the same you should get some connectivity (at least 10, probably 10/100).

Also note that a lot of the standards are meant to prevent accidents these days, including now that many commercial phones are using RJ45 jacks and even homes are installing RJ45 wall jacks. In the case of mixing network devices with phone devices the problem is that the phone lines carry voltage that will blow network equipment, specifically when the phone rings and the ringer voltage is sent down the line. This is why B is a very good standard to use these days.
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#14 OFFLINE   brant

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 10:47 PM

Use 568B. It is what all commercial installs require (at least if you are AMP/Tyco certified) and is more common. A lot of home installers do 568A, but I have been finding them done that way less and less now.


most of those home media center panel telephone boards are setup for 568A; that is why you see that in residential setups.



as for the color pin assignment when making a patch cable; it absolutely does not matter as long as both ends are the same. data doesn't know what color its running on.

the twists only need remain within 1/2" of the termination.

you actually only need pins 1,2,3,6 to operate; you crossed two of these in one of your ends.

#15 OFFLINE   brant

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 10:55 PM

You should have quoted my entire thought ;)



Also note that a lot of the standards are meant to prevent accidents these days, including now that many commercial phones are using RJ45 jacks and even homes are installing RJ45 wall jacks.


i don't think its accurate to say "many commercial phones" are using rj45's. most of your modern pbx system operate of rj11 connected by POTS. they're purposely designed this way to keep office buildings from having to rewire the entire complex to accommodate a new phone system.

its possible you've seen someone installing rj45's for a 4-line phone system; in that case, you'd make a custom cable to split into two male connectors for the 4-line phone. someone might be making a 4-line phone w/ an ethernet type connection; it wouldn't surprise me, but i haven't seen them yet. that's not really an advanced "commercial" phone but its great for small business. that's what we use in our office as it can handle one primary and three rollover lines, simple station-to-station transfers, etc. . .

when i do a small office project setup for a 4-line system, i use two rj11's w/ two lines a piece (rj11 takes up to 3 lines). makes it easier for the customer if they need to move the office furniture around and can use a standard phone cable to extend the length.

#16 OFFLINE   CJTE

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 11:03 PM

1) It does not matter what pattern you use, you could even make up your own. Just as long as both ends are identical. The patterns are standards to help with backwards compatibility with some other formats and to minimize loss/interference, but in reality any should work for a simple run.


I call bull****.
Make a cable GW/G, OW/O, BLW/BL, BRW/BR and tell me that it works.
Try GW/BL, BRW/O, OW/G, BLW/BR

If you throw different mixes in, some of the cables will work, but not like they're supposed to.

#17 OFFLINE   brant

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 11:12 PM

I call bull****.
Make a cable GW/G, OW/O, BLW/BL, BRW/BR and tell me that it works.
Try GW/BL, BRW/O, OW/G, BLW/BR

If you throw different mixes in, some of the cables will work, but not like they're supposed to.


well first you have to get your color names right; white comes before the color so its WG/G, WO/O, etc. . .

if both ends match, it works perfectly. what is there to argue? how the hell does the data know what color the wire is its traveling?

#18 OFFLINE   2dogz

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 11:51 PM

You know, when I read OP's post I saw him running Cat 5 cable between rooms and having a problem with the recepticles, not the plugs on the jumper cables. In which case, I'd advise that he make sure to use a 110 punch down tool, not a screwdriver or fingernails, to ensure the cable is well seated. If problem, go back and reseat everything again, most often the issue.

Who the heck would want to be putting RJ45 connectors on cable when there are thousands of children around the world putting them together at dirt cheap prices. I've done my share, but it doesn't make sense unless for some custom application.

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#19 OFFLINE   flipptyfloppity

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 02:01 AM

i don't think its accurate to say "many commercial phones" are using rj45's. most of your modern pbx system operate of rj11 connected by POTS. they're purposely designed this way to keep office buildings from having to rewire the entire complex to accommodate a new phone system.

its possible you've seen someone installing rj45's for a 4-line phone system; in that case, you'd make a custom cable to split into two male connectors for the 4-line phone. someone might be making a 4-line phone w/ an ethernet type connection; it wouldn't surprise me, but i haven't seen them yet. that's not really an advanced "commercial" phone but its great for small business. that's what we use in our office as it can handle one primary and three rollover lines, simple station-to-station transfers, etc. . .

when i do a small office project setup for a 4-line system, i use two rj11's w/ two lines a piece (rj11 takes up to 3 lines). makes it easier for the customer if they need to move the office furniture around and can use a standard phone cable to extend the length.


A few things:
RJ11 only takes one line.
RJ14 takes two lines and will fit in an RJ11 jack.
RJ25 can take 3 lines, it also will fit in an RJ11 jack usually.

You cannot extend RJ25 with a standard 4-conductor cable. RJ14 cannot be extended with the cheaper 2-conductor cables.

It's quote common (has been for some time) for PBXes to use RJ14. The fancy phones need power on the other lines to run their displays and lights. A lot of PBXes now just use powered ethernet jacks and thus use RJ45.
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#20 OFFLINE   Git

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 10:46 AM

The easiest way to make patch cables is with the EZ-RJ45 connectors:

Posted Image

These things work great! You insert the wires into the connector and they stick out the end! Verify you have the proper order, pull the connector down tight, trim them off then crimp.

http://rover.ebay.co...02&toolid=10001 EZ-RJ45

Also, keep in mind that cat5 has four pairs of wires, you only need two pairs for ethernet. The blue and brown pair are not normally used so you can use them for a phone circuit or if you have a bad wire in the green or orange pair, you can use them instead.




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