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Guest Message by DevFuse

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cat 5 wire question


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55 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   flipptyfloppity

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 11:49 AM

The easiest way to make patch cables is with the EZ-RJ45 connectors:

Posted Image

These things work great! You insert the wires into the connector and they stick out the end! Verify you have the proper order, pull the connector down tight, trim them off then crimp.

http://rover.ebay.co...02&toolid=10001 EZ-RJ45

Also, keep in mind that cat5 has four pairs of wires, you only need two pairs for ethernet. The blue and brown pair are not normally used so you can use them for a phone circuit or if you have a bad wire in the green or orange pair, you can use them instead.


All 8 are used for gigabit ethernet and powered ethernet. Don't sell yourself short by making bad cables.

I never found cutting off the ends straight to be the difficult part of making an RJ45.
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#22 OFFLINE   Git

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 01:13 PM

All 8 are used for gigabit ethernet and powered ethernet. Don't sell yourself short by making bad cables.



I agree with you about a gigabit and powered ethernet cable. I was only suggesting to use one of the extra pairs in a pinch if you had a bad wire. A 10 or 100 mbs connection is better than no connection at all.

Also, I think your missing the point of the EZ-RJ45 connector. The connector has holes at the end so the wires will protrude through. Getting the wires lined up properly and have them stay in the proper order while you insert them into the connector is the hard part. The EZ-RJ45 solves that problem. You can even insert one wire at a time if you wanted.

#23 OFFLINE   Thaedron

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 01:33 PM

Also, I think your missing the point of the EZ-RJ45 connector. The connector has holes at the end so the wires will protrude through. Getting the wires lined up properly and have them stay in the proper order while you insert them into the connector is the hard part. The EZ-RJ45 solves that problem. You can even insert one wire at a time if you wanted.


Huzzah...!!! I never knew EZ-RJ45 connectors existed. I agree it's not the "cutting to the proper length" that is the issue it's "getting that <1" of each wire stuffed into the correct slot and all extended to the end of the connector to make solid contact without leaving too much untwisted wire on the backside so that the cable jacket actually gets crimped by the strain relief tab in the connector... and now I need to take a breath, whew..." part that is a PITA.

I mostly make custom length cables for my patch panel to Gigabit switch, but a few others around the house as well. I'll have to look for some EZ-RJ45s the next time I have a large batch to make.
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#24 OFFLINE   brant

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 05:03 PM

A few things:
RJ11 only takes one line.
RJ14 takes two lines and will fit in an RJ11 jack.
RJ25 can take 3 lines, it also will fit in an RJ11 jack usually.

You cannot extend RJ25 with a standard 4-conductor cable. RJ14 cannot be extended with the cheaper 2-conductor cables.

It's quote common (has been for some time) for PBXes to use RJ14. The fancy phones need power on the other lines to run their displays and lights. A lot of PBXes now just use powered ethernet jacks and thus use RJ45.


you are correct; it seems most people only know rj11 and rj45, so those are the only two i normally reference.

i don't think i said anywhere that you could extend 3 lines on 4 conductor cable. i did say some make a custom cable using cat5 from an rj45 split to two 4 conductor male modular plugs. i prefer to use two separate jacks for a 4-line phone.


every pbx i've encountered, even new ones, are made to operate on POTS line. i know there are others that can't use it, but a lot of people opt for something that can be used on an older wiring system.

#25 OFFLINE   Grentz

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 05:31 PM

Many PBXs are made to work on standard phone lines, but most commercial and even some residential guys are just opting to use all RJ45 jacks so they do not have to stock/carry both. Also many home phone blocks are starting to use RJ45 for the jumpers so they can be dual use (like the structured boxes from leviton, etc.)
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#26 OFFLINE   flipptyfloppity

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 05:37 PM

you are correct; it seems most people only know rj11 and rj45, so those are the only two i normally reference.

i don't think i said anywhere that you could extend 3 lines on 4 conductor cable. i did say some make a custom cable using cat5 from an rj45 split to two 4 conductor male modular plugs. i prefer to use two separate jacks for a 4-line phone.


every pbx i've encountered, even new ones, are made to operate on POTS line. i know there are others that can't use it, but a lot of people opt for something that can be used on an older wiring system.


Well, I just looked. I'm surprised. The previous system we used at our company required 4-wire, but the new one we use (Lucent), despite using RJ45 plugs, works on 2-wire. I guess you learn something new every day.
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#27 OFFLINE   CJTE

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:40 PM

well first you have to get your color names right; white comes before the color so its WG/G, WO/O, etc. . .

if both ends match, it works perfectly. what is there to argue? how the hell does the data know what color the wire is its traveling?


:lol:... Who's to say White comes before color? CompTIA? MIT?
OMG, I just realized something
What kind of Racist are you? Putting whites before Coloreds!!
(Yea, well, I thought it was funny).
Point: I was taught to pronounce them that way, and here on the west side, everyone I know pronounces it that way, so, reading your post was actually somewhat strange to me, just as im sure reading my post was strange to you.
//
I'm telling you Theres a reason its done this way

The specification for category 5 cable was defined in ANSI/TIA/EIA-568-A, with clarification in TSB-95. These documents specified performance characteristics and test requirements for frequencies of up to 100 MHz.

Category 5 cable includes four twisted pairs in a single cable jacket. This use of balanced lines helps preserve a high signal-to-noise ratio despite interference from both external sources and other pairs (this latter form of interference is called crosstalk).


Read more about the standard

#28 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:54 PM

odd thing is most of the automotive diagrams are the other way.. main color/stripe.. org/wht, org, blu/wht, blu

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#29 OFFLINE   CJTE

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:57 PM

A few things:
RJ11 only takes one line.
RJ14 takes two lines and will fit in an RJ11 jack.
RJ25 can take 3 lines, it also will fit in an RJ11 jack usually.

It's quote common (has been for some time) for PBXes to use RJ14. The fancy phones need power on the other lines to run their displays and lights. A lot of PBXes now just use powered ethernet jacks and thus use RJ45.

I think everyone refrences RJ11 only because its popular. I dont think I've seen an actual RJ11 in a long time... Just RJ14's with only one line in them. I know I haven't seen an RJ25 is >10 years.

Many PBXs are made to work on standard phone lines, but most commercial and even some residential guys are just opting to use all RJ45 jacks so they do not have to stock/carry both. Also many home phone blocks are starting to use RJ45 for the jumpers so they can be dual use (like the structured boxes from leviton, etc.)


Ive been spending some time in So. Cal, living in track-homes built in the 2003 era.
the 4 homes I've been in (seperate gated areas) within a specific community (which is a few miles large) all have jacks with 4 outputs. 2 RJ45 outputs, and 2 Coax outputs. One of the Coax outputs is labelled CBL, another is labelled DSS. One of the RJ45 ouputs has a picture of a computer, and the other has a picture of a telephone.
They're still wired from inside to outside, just as they always have been, so you can plug a single line cable with an RJ11 into it, or go all the way up.

(not disagreeing with you here, re-affirming what you've said)

#30 OFFLINE   CJTE

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:58 PM

odd thing is most of the automotive diagrams are the other way.. main color/stripe.. org/wht, org, blu/wht, blu


So is audio. The stripe means Negatory.
(Ever hooked up a car speaker backwards, and then hooked it up correctly. Most of the time you can literally hear the difference)

#31 OFFLINE   Grentz

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:59 PM

:lol:... Who's to say White comes before color? CompTIA? MIT?
OMG, I just realized something
What kind of Racist are you? Putting whites before Coloreds!!
(Yea, well, I thought it was funny).
Point: I was taught to pronounce them that way, and here on the west side, everyone I know pronounces it that way, so, reading your post was actually somewhat strange to me, just as im sure reading my post was strange to you.
//
I'm telling you Theres a reason its done this way



Read more about the standard


Yes, there is a reason it is done in certain patterns and you should whenever possible pick a proper standard for your application.

But the fact remains that as long as both ends are the same, in simple shorter runs it should work fine.
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#32 ONLINE   armophob

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 09:01 PM

odd thing is most of the automotive diagrams are the other way.. main color/stripe.. org/wht, org, blu/wht, blu


From a telephone guy, the striped color coding on rj45 follows old tip and ring counting.

#33 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 09:21 PM

Yes, there is a reason it is done in certain patterns and you should whenever possible pick a proper standard for your application.

But the fact remains that as long as both ends are the same, in simple shorter runs it should work fine.

nice thing with pictures: doesn't matter how you pronounce the colors :D

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#34 OFFLINE   CJTE

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 09:30 PM

From a telephone guy, the striped color coding on rj45 follows old tip and ring counting.


Yea but hell that was a Touch Tone problem and wasnt that resolved a few years later? (lol). Annnnnd, How does that effect whether color or stripe is called first? :)

Uhhhm... I thought I had another point to make, but it has eluded me.

#35 ONLINE   armophob

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 09:59 PM

Yea but hell that was a Touch Tone problem and wasnt that resolved a few years later? (lol). Annnnnd, How does that effect whether color or stripe is called first? :)

Uhhhm... I thought I had another point to make, but it has eluded me.


I would tell you but do to my union obligations I cannot provide you with the information without charging a team leader training differential. I will say that if you research tip and ring color coding some scab out there may have broken rank and posted the information.:)

#36 OFFLINE   mikep554

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 10:17 PM

if both ends match, it works perfectly. what is there to argue? how the hell does the data know what color the wire is its traveling?


The data doesn't care which color, but the pattern does make a difference. The patterns are designed so that each wire that carries data (let's say Green) is twisted together with an unused wire (let's say White/Green). It allows the cable to reject interference. If a cable is wired up to pass data down both halves of a pair (both the Green and the White/Green) you will see very poor signal-to-noise ratios.

As has been said, just about anything will work on a 15-foot cable as long as both ends are the same. Try a wacky setup on a run approaching 100 meters, and you will be lucky to push 5 or 10 Mb/s down the cable if you can get the connection to link up at all.
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#37 OFFLINE   flipptyfloppity

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 09:53 AM

The data doesn't care which color, but the pattern does make a difference. The patterns are designed so that each wire that carries data (let's say Green) is twisted together with an unused wire (let's say White/Green). It allows the cable to reject interference. If a cable is wired up to pass data down both halves of a pair (both the Green and the White/Green) you will see very poor signal-to-noise ratios.


That 2nd wire in each pair isn't unused, it transmits an inverted version of the signal on the 1st wire in each pair. This is because Ethernet uses differential signaling.

http://en.wikipedia....ntial_signaling

And yeah, it allows the system to transmit a lot faster and reject noise.

But as you described, it's important that data which is meant to be transmitted over a pair (3/4,5/6,1/2,7/8) go out over a pair and not get split up due to miswiring.
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#38 OFFLINE   SledDog

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 10:12 AM

I would tell you but do to my union obligations I cannot provide you with the information without charging a team leader training differential. I will say that if you research tip and ring color coding some scab out there may have broken rank and posted the information.:)


True, but you are in a right to work state. So even if you are a union/bargaining unit member, they can still hire someone else who will do it for less. And it is not requirement to be, or become, a union/bargaining unit member to be hired. The term closed shop is meaningless in the Sunshine state. :nono2:

Who knows, they may get your next tech right of one of the beaches in the keys. If his feet are dry.:lol:
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#39 OFFLINE   mikep554

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 09:17 PM

That 2nd wire in each pair isn't unused, it transmits an inverted version of the signal on the 1st wire in each pair.


Ok. At least I was in the neighborhood. :D
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#40 OFFLINE   Hotscot

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 07:55 PM

Thanks for the tip on EZ RJ45 connectors.
As someone who spent all summer running twin Cat6 from every room in my home to my office, where I will have my network box, this has been the best tip I've had in ages.
Again, thanks




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