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Guest Message by DevFuse

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cat 5 wire question


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55 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   flipptyfloppity

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 05:37 PM

you are correct; it seems most people only know rj11 and rj45, so those are the only two i normally reference.

i don't think i said anywhere that you could extend 3 lines on 4 conductor cable. i did say some make a custom cable using cat5 from an rj45 split to two 4 conductor male modular plugs. i prefer to use two separate jacks for a 4-line phone.


every pbx i've encountered, even new ones, are made to operate on POTS line. i know there are others that can't use it, but a lot of people opt for something that can be used on an older wiring system.


Well, I just looked. I'm surprised. The previous system we used at our company required 4-wire, but the new one we use (Lucent), despite using RJ45 plugs, works on 2-wire. I guess you learn something new every day.
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#27 OFFLINE   CJTE

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:40 PM

well first you have to get your color names right; white comes before the color so its WG/G, WO/O, etc. . .

if both ends match, it works perfectly. what is there to argue? how the hell does the data know what color the wire is its traveling?


:lol:... Who's to say White comes before color? CompTIA? MIT?
OMG, I just realized something
What kind of Racist are you? Putting whites before Coloreds!!
(Yea, well, I thought it was funny).
Point: I was taught to pronounce them that way, and here on the west side, everyone I know pronounces it that way, so, reading your post was actually somewhat strange to me, just as im sure reading my post was strange to you.
//
I'm telling you Theres a reason its done this way

The specification for category 5 cable was defined in ANSI/TIA/EIA-568-A, with clarification in TSB-95. These documents specified performance characteristics and test requirements for frequencies of up to 100 MHz.

Category 5 cable includes four twisted pairs in a single cable jacket. This use of balanced lines helps preserve a high signal-to-noise ratio despite interference from both external sources and other pairs (this latter form of interference is called crosstalk).


Read more about the standard

#28 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:54 PM

odd thing is most of the automotive diagrams are the other way.. main color/stripe.. org/wht, org, blu/wht, blu

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#29 OFFLINE   CJTE

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:57 PM

A few things:
RJ11 only takes one line.
RJ14 takes two lines and will fit in an RJ11 jack.
RJ25 can take 3 lines, it also will fit in an RJ11 jack usually.

It's quote common (has been for some time) for PBXes to use RJ14. The fancy phones need power on the other lines to run their displays and lights. A lot of PBXes now just use powered ethernet jacks and thus use RJ45.

I think everyone refrences RJ11 only because its popular. I dont think I've seen an actual RJ11 in a long time... Just RJ14's with only one line in them. I know I haven't seen an RJ25 is >10 years.

Many PBXs are made to work on standard phone lines, but most commercial and even some residential guys are just opting to use all RJ45 jacks so they do not have to stock/carry both. Also many home phone blocks are starting to use RJ45 for the jumpers so they can be dual use (like the structured boxes from leviton, etc.)


Ive been spending some time in So. Cal, living in track-homes built in the 2003 era.
the 4 homes I've been in (seperate gated areas) within a specific community (which is a few miles large) all have jacks with 4 outputs. 2 RJ45 outputs, and 2 Coax outputs. One of the Coax outputs is labelled CBL, another is labelled DSS. One of the RJ45 ouputs has a picture of a computer, and the other has a picture of a telephone.
They're still wired from inside to outside, just as they always have been, so you can plug a single line cable with an RJ11 into it, or go all the way up.

(not disagreeing with you here, re-affirming what you've said)

#30 OFFLINE   CJTE

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:58 PM

odd thing is most of the automotive diagrams are the other way.. main color/stripe.. org/wht, org, blu/wht, blu


So is audio. The stripe means Negatory.
(Ever hooked up a car speaker backwards, and then hooked it up correctly. Most of the time you can literally hear the difference)

#31 OFFLINE   Grentz

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:59 PM

:lol:... Who's to say White comes before color? CompTIA? MIT?
OMG, I just realized something
What kind of Racist are you? Putting whites before Coloreds!!
(Yea, well, I thought it was funny).
Point: I was taught to pronounce them that way, and here on the west side, everyone I know pronounces it that way, so, reading your post was actually somewhat strange to me, just as im sure reading my post was strange to you.
//
I'm telling you Theres a reason its done this way



Read more about the standard


Yes, there is a reason it is done in certain patterns and you should whenever possible pick a proper standard for your application.

But the fact remains that as long as both ends are the same, in simple shorter runs it should work fine.
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#32 ONLINE   armophob

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 09:01 PM

odd thing is most of the automotive diagrams are the other way.. main color/stripe.. org/wht, org, blu/wht, blu


From a telephone guy, the striped color coding on rj45 follows old tip and ring counting.

#33 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 09:21 PM

Yes, there is a reason it is done in certain patterns and you should whenever possible pick a proper standard for your application.

But the fact remains that as long as both ends are the same, in simple shorter runs it should work fine.

nice thing with pictures: doesn't matter how you pronounce the colors :D

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#34 OFFLINE   CJTE

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 09:30 PM

From a telephone guy, the striped color coding on rj45 follows old tip and ring counting.


Yea but hell that was a Touch Tone problem and wasnt that resolved a few years later? (lol). Annnnnd, How does that effect whether color or stripe is called first? :)

Uhhhm... I thought I had another point to make, but it has eluded me.

#35 ONLINE   armophob

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 09:59 PM

Yea but hell that was a Touch Tone problem and wasnt that resolved a few years later? (lol). Annnnnd, How does that effect whether color or stripe is called first? :)

Uhhhm... I thought I had another point to make, but it has eluded me.


I would tell you but do to my union obligations I cannot provide you with the information without charging a team leader training differential. I will say that if you research tip and ring color coding some scab out there may have broken rank and posted the information.:)

#36 OFFLINE   mikep554

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 10:17 PM

if both ends match, it works perfectly. what is there to argue? how the hell does the data know what color the wire is its traveling?


The data doesn't care which color, but the pattern does make a difference. The patterns are designed so that each wire that carries data (let's say Green) is twisted together with an unused wire (let's say White/Green). It allows the cable to reject interference. If a cable is wired up to pass data down both halves of a pair (both the Green and the White/Green) you will see very poor signal-to-noise ratios.

As has been said, just about anything will work on a 15-foot cable as long as both ends are the same. Try a wacky setup on a run approaching 100 meters, and you will be lucky to push 5 or 10 Mb/s down the cable if you can get the connection to link up at all.
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#37 OFFLINE   flipptyfloppity

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 09:53 AM

The data doesn't care which color, but the pattern does make a difference. The patterns are designed so that each wire that carries data (let's say Green) is twisted together with an unused wire (let's say White/Green). It allows the cable to reject interference. If a cable is wired up to pass data down both halves of a pair (both the Green and the White/Green) you will see very poor signal-to-noise ratios.


That 2nd wire in each pair isn't unused, it transmits an inverted version of the signal on the 1st wire in each pair. This is because Ethernet uses differential signaling.

http://en.wikipedia....ntial_signaling

And yeah, it allows the system to transmit a lot faster and reject noise.

But as you described, it's important that data which is meant to be transmitted over a pair (3/4,5/6,1/2,7/8) go out over a pair and not get split up due to miswiring.
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#38 OFFLINE   SledDog

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 10:12 AM

I would tell you but do to my union obligations I cannot provide you with the information without charging a team leader training differential. I will say that if you research tip and ring color coding some scab out there may have broken rank and posted the information.:)


True, but you are in a right to work state. So even if you are a union/bargaining unit member, they can still hire someone else who will do it for less. And it is not requirement to be, or become, a union/bargaining unit member to be hired. The term closed shop is meaningless in the Sunshine state. :nono2:

Who knows, they may get your next tech right of one of the beaches in the keys. If his feet are dry.:lol:
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#39 OFFLINE   mikep554

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 09:17 PM

That 2nd wire in each pair isn't unused, it transmits an inverted version of the signal on the 1st wire in each pair.


Ok. At least I was in the neighborhood. :D
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#40 OFFLINE   Hotscot

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 07:55 PM

Thanks for the tip on EZ RJ45 connectors.
As someone who spent all summer running twin Cat6 from every room in my home to my office, where I will have my network box, this has been the best tip I've had in ages.
Again, thanks

#41 OFFLINE   Hotscot

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 07:56 PM

However, is there an equivalent ez connector for connecting the Cat6 to the wall plate?

#42 OFFLINE   mickcris

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 08:09 PM

However, is there an equivalent ez connector for connecting the Cat6 to the wall plate?


you could use something like this

http://www.techtools...ROD&ProdID=1746

#43 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 08:14 PM

I like these: http://www.levitonpr...dept_id_238.htm
Home Depot carries them.. very versatile..

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#44 OFFLINE   brant

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 08:19 PM

you could use something like this

http://www.techtools...ROD&ProdID=1746


that's a neat product. it would be useful to a homeowner looking to add one or two additional jacks w/o having to invest in a punchdown tool.

#45 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 04:25 AM

I like these: http://www.levitonpr...dept_id_238.htm
Home Depot carries them.. very versatile..

I have a bunch of these too, work pretty well and lock in place easily.
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#46 OFFLINE   rudeney

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 08:47 AM

that's a neat product. it would be useful to a homeowner looking to add one or two additional jacks w/o having to invest in a punchdown tool.


You don’t need a punchdown tool to wire the jacks. The Leviton jacks usually come with a plastic tool in the package that works just fine. Just place the wire in the slot, then push it in place with the plastic tool, rocking it a bit to get a good connection. It won’t cut the excess wire, but that’s easily done with a sharp knife after they are all in place.

#47 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 08:53 AM

those little tool are pretty handy also, while not as good as a tool they are easy to carry and work good in an emergency.
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#48 OFFLINE   Grentz

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 08:58 AM

you could use something like this

http://www.techtools...ROD&ProdID=1746


$7 a piece! :eek2: :eek:

That is insane. TTS has horrible pricing on a lot of smaller items.

As houskamp said, you can just use the regular ones as they usually come with a little tool. If anything, you can usually just the plastic caps as a make shift punch down as well, but that sorta depends on a bit of luck and skill :P
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#49 OFFLINE   mickcris

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 10:46 AM

$7 a piece! :eek2: :eek:

That is insane. TTS has horrible pricing on a lot of smaller items.

As houskamp said, you can just use the regular ones as they usually come with a little tool. If anything, you can usually just the plastic caps as a make shift punch down as well, but that sorta depends on a bit of luck and skill :P


Yea, they are pretty expensive there. I have seen them at fry's and am pretty sure they were a lot cheaper. I figured since he was looking for something "ez" it would be the easiest.

#50 OFFLINE   Thaedron

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 10:58 AM

I like these: http://www.levitonpr...dept_id_238.htm
Home Depot carries them.. very versatile..



I agree! Here is a link to the specific Home Depot modular jacks

Nice thing about these is that you can get them in different colors (though not at Home Depot). I used them throughout the house when we built. I use white for phone and blue for data. Also agree with other posters, that the little plastic tools supplied do work, though not as well as a steel bladed actual punchdown tool.
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