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Guest Message by DevFuse

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TV fails VOD 1080P Test!!! Why?


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40 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   Jason Nipp

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 09:16 AM

Unless they changed the way it works from when I tried the 1080p it will retest until you actually make the purchase.

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#27 OFFLINE   MrQuestion

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 11:41 AM

If you go into diagnostics on your 722, there's an entry in the "Analysis" section entitled "HDMI Test."

This actually interrogates the display and asks it what formats it supports.

If 1080P/24 isn't there (it's usually on page two of the Info data section), the 722 assumes your TV can't do it.

I suspect that A/V receivers don't pass the interrogation on to the display.


I checked out the "Analysis" section as suggest and found page 2 of "Monitor Data" to be very interesting. The 722 identifies the name of my monitor to be "Denon-AVAMP" and shows the highest supported format to be 1080i. In fact, my monitor is a Pioneer PDP-6020 and my A/V receiver is a Denon. It looks like the 722 can't look beyond the A/V Receiver. When I have a little time, I'll try connecting my 722 directly to my TV via HDMI and recheck.

#28 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 12:49 PM

I checked out the "Analysis" section as suggest and found page 2 of "Monitor Data" to be very interesting. The 722 identifies the name of my monitor to be "Denon-AVAMP" and shows the highest supported format to be 1080i. In fact, my monitor is a Pioneer PDP-6020 and my A/V receiver is a Denon. It looks like the 722 can't look beyond the A/V Receiver. When I have a little time, I'll try connecting my 722 directly to my TV via HDMI and recheck.


The way HDMI works, it can only detect the next device on the chain. That device must detect the 3rd device, and so on, and pass along any important info, using the least common denominator. If you have a device in the chain that doesn't support 1080/24p signals, even if they do support 1080/60p signals, you won't get 1080/24p to work.

Over the last few years, lots of TVs and other devices have claimed "1080p" support, but many don't support 1080/24p, even though that's been an established standard for a decade. Since the first consumer devices to do 1080/24p were only released 2 years ago or so (HD-DVD players), too many manufacturers didn't see 1080/24p support as important.

#29 OFFLINE   n0qcu

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 02:08 PM

If you go into diagnostics on your 722, there's an entry in the "Analysis" section entitled "HDMI Test."

This actually interrogates the display and asks it what formats it supports.

If 1080P/24 isn't there (it's usually on page two of the Info data section), the 722 assumes your TV can't do it.

I suspect that A/V receivers don't pass the interrogation on to the display.


Interesting because 1080p is NOT listed yet my set passed the test and DID display 1080p.
Kevin

3 Hoppers
3 Joeys, all wireless
1 Hopper 2.0
YES, all Hoppers can see the recordings on any Hopper.


#30 OFFLINE   Jason Nipp

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 02:11 PM

I have yet to hear of any TV passing a test when routed through a Denon receiver.

This may have changed, but last I heard Denon receivers were not 1.3 complaint.

#31 OFFLINE   MrQuestion

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 03:40 PM

This may have changed, but last I heard Denon receivers were not 1.3 complaint.


The Denon AVR-1909 has three 1.3a compliant inputs and one 1.3a compliant output (as per their website). On a Denon user forum, I have inquired if other 1909 users have a similar problem.

#32 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 04:13 PM

1080p is no problem over component, it is only the display that limits what can be shown.
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#33 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 04:46 PM

All ATSC TV's must accept any one of those signals and display them at the set's native resolution.

Not quite. An ATSC tuner must be able to accept any and all of the 18 broadcast formats and display them, but there is no requirement that a monitor or the monitor inputs accepts and displays all formats.

If your statement was true nearly every TV would be non-compliant for not accepting one format or another.

#34 OFFLINE   n0qcu

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:09 PM

Just to clarify, a TV or Monitor always "displays" at the set's native resolution. This is not related to the resolution of the input signal. If your set, just as an example, has a native resolution of 1080p/60 it will display all ATSC signals inputted to it at 1080p/60. There are three ATSC Table 3 signals associated with 1080. 1080 30p(30fps) , 1080 24p(24fps), and finally 1080 60i(30fps).

All ATSC TV's must accept any one of those signals and display them at the set's native resolution. Some sets have multiple resolutions of the display available. My set is a 1080p display, however it can operate at either 30fps
or 72fps in the presence of a 24fps input signal.

If n0qcu's set is a 1080p set that has a native resolution of 1080p 30fps , Dish will not send the 24fps to it but rather it will deliver the signal in 1080i for n0qcu's set to process and display. In this case, n0qcu's set would perform the deinterlacing and also the 3:2 pulldown.

n0qcu, I am not arguing with anything that you said, just clarifying the terminology.


Just to clarify, my set DID pass the test and the on screen display verified it was getting a 1080p signal.
Kevin

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#35 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:19 PM

There is a lot of confusion being aired in this thread. :grin:

Your claim that the monitor inputs MUST accept all 18 ATSC formats remain false - even on a monitor with a tuner. The tuner must be able to handle all 18 ATSC formats, the monitor inputs (whether they be HDMI/DVI/Composite/Component/S-Video) do not.

#36 OFFLINE   MrQuestion

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:16 PM

I checked out the "Analysis" section as suggest and found page 2 of "Monitor Data" to be very interesting. The 722 identifies the name of my monitor to be "Denon-AVAMP" and shows the highest supported format to be 1080i. In fact, my monitor is a Pioneer PDP-6020 and my A/V receiver is a Denon. It looks like the 722 can't look beyond the A/V Receiver. When I have a little time, I'll try connecting my 722 directly to my TV via HDMI and recheck.


I tried connecting direct connecting the VIP-722 to my 6020 with both component and HDMI (The Denon A/V Receiver was not connected at all). In both cases, the Pioneer failed the 1080P test. When I checked the HDMI Analysis, it showed the name of the monitor to be "Pioneer-TV". I was actually a little relieved. I can live with not being able to watch the single 1080P movie Dish offers once a month. It would have been an entirely different matter if I confirmed that my Denon was the problem.:bang

#37 OFFLINE   Jeff_DML

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:26 PM

Your claim that the monitor inputs MUST accept all 18 ATSC formats remain false - even on a monitor with a tuner. The tuner must be able to handle all 18 ATSC formats, the monitor inputs (whether they be HDMI/DVI/Composite/Component/S-Video) do not.


yep (technically is the MPEG2 decoder). Actually tested it here at work, sent a 1080@24fps to my Sharp tv via QAM and it decode properly but it did not accept 1080@24fps via input.

also PS3 outputs 1080p via component, try it in the XMB menu, I think bluray does not allow it.

#38 OFFLINE   Jeff_DML

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 11:20 PM

I just tried the test for Iron Man and it passed, saw the confirmation screen.

I have a DISH->Onkyo 606->Pioneer PDP-5020


Went to the HDMI analysis screen and it said Onkyo and said only up to 1080i was supported

#39 OFFLINE   MrQuestion

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 01:53 AM

I just tried the test for Iron Man and it passed, saw the confirmation screen.

I have a DISH->Onkyo 606->Pioneer PDP-5020


Went to the HDMI analysis screen and it said Onkyo and said only up to 1080i was supported


OK, I'm a little jealous... While you were watching the movie, could you confirm via the Onkyo or Pioneer OSD that you were in fact receiving a 1080p 24 signal?

My Denon is really looking like the weak link.:(

#40 OFFLINE   Jeff_DML

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 10:45 AM

OK, I'm a little jealous... While you were watching the movie, could you confirm via the Onkyo or Pioneer OSD that you were in fact receiving a 1080p 24 signal?

My Denon is really looking like the weak link.:(


sorry I didnt buy it , I just watched the bluray version of it and plus I am too cheap :D

edit: Do you have a bluray player such as PS3? you can verify 1080p24 comes through your AVR using it

#41 OFFLINE   MrQuestion

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 02:14 PM

sorry I didnt buy it , I just watched the bluray version of it and plus I am too cheap :D

edit: Do you have a bluray player such as PS3? you can verify 1080p24 comes through your AVR using it


Santa will be bringing a PS3. The whole point of trying the Dish 1080P VOD was to have a look at what my Pioneer looks like when feed a true 1080P signal. I guess I'll have to wait until Christmas.:(




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