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Still trying to get installed

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49 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   curt8403

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 06:05 PM

When I gt home from work there was a message on my machine from DirecSat saying they have installation openings and to call back and schedule. I'll call in the a.m., more to follow...


cool. it helps when Directv tells DirecSat that they are gonna get bopped.
I am no longer connected with Directv or any other satellite provider

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#27 OFFLINE   firefighter4evr

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 08:01 PM

When I gt home from work there was a message on my machine from DirecSat saying they have installation openings and to call back and schedule. I'll call in the a.m., more to follow...


Does someone next door have D*?? might be easier at this point to just go over there to watch tv:p just kidding.... good luck with the new installers, hop you will be joining us soon....

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#28 OFFLINE   JoeF

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 09:46 AM

OK, I'm back on the schedule. This Monday afternoon 12-4. I'm a little concerned about the p.m. slot, but I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt for now.

#29 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 02:29 PM

"Can you be home from next Tuesday at 2:00 PM, until forever?"

- Customer service rep to Bart Simpson

#30 OFFLINE   sonnik

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:58 AM

If it's worth anything, I had this same thing happen to me.

I just bought a nice new HDTV, and was anxious to get an HD DVR and programming source.

I had DirecTV send their preferred installer (Ironwood) in the area. It was a Saturday appointment. I think the guy was basically hung over and didn't want to deal with an HD installation on a Saturday. (He showed up 10 minutes prior to the end of the four hour installation window also).

I ran to the local cable company and picked up a box, and then called to cancel. The DirecTV Retention people did try to send a different installer, but it was too late. I was only one year into my two-year agreement, so I had to eat $106 also.

Later, I was getting sick of the limited programming of the cable company (Cox). I opted to call a guy in the Yellow Pages directly as a new install. I explained my difficulties with Ironwood.

What's sad is that the one crappy guy from the DirecTV preferred installers can ruin the reputation of both businesses. DirecTV is a good company, and the SD installer was a sharp guy. This company was very prompt and friendly. If I had a need for it, I'd give them as much business as I could for any A/V service.

But after the service I had with the smaller guy in the yellow pages, I may just elect to pay him directly for the install with an upcoming move I have.

Anyhow, my point is that despite the Ironwood guy saying I had no LOS, and I challenged him, and his supervisor, etc (knowing I have good signal on 101) - I was right. I get great signal, and I've even re-peaked my dish myself after last year's monsoon season (tripod install) with no difficulty.

Sometimes these guys just make crap up to get out of doing labor. This is probably a case of the installers getting hourly pay regardless if the install is completed or not. There should be more of an 'incentive' bonus for a complete installation directly to the employee completing the install.

#31 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 10:28 AM

If it's worth anything, I had this same thing happen to me.

I just bought a nice new HDTV, and was anxious to get an HD DVR and programming source.

I had DirecTV send their preferred installer (Ironwood) in the area. It was a Saturday appointment. I think the guy was basically hung over and didn't want to deal with an HD installation on a Saturday. (He showed up 10 minutes prior to the end of the four hour installation window also).

I ran to the local cable company and picked up a box, and then called to cancel. The DirecTV Retention people did try to send a different installer, but it was too late. I was only one year into my two-year agreement, so I had to eat $106 also.

Later, I was getting sick of the limited programming of the cable company (Cox). I opted to call a guy in the Yellow Pages directly as a new install. I explained my difficulties with Ironwood.

What's sad is that the one crappy guy from the DirecTV preferred installers can ruin the reputation of both businesses. DirecTV is a good company, and the SD installer was a sharp guy. This company was very prompt and friendly. If I had a need for it, I'd give them as much business as I could for any A/V service.

But after the service I had with the smaller guy in the yellow pages, I may just elect to pay him directly for the install with an upcoming move I have.

Anyhow, my point is that despite the Ironwood guy saying I had no LOS, and I challenged him, and his supervisor, etc (knowing I have good signal on 101) - I was right. I get great signal, and I've even re-peaked my dish myself after last year's monsoon season (tripod install) with no difficulty.

Sometimes these guys just make crap up to get out of doing labor. This is probably a case of the installers getting hourly pay regardless if the install is completed or not. There should be more of an 'incentive' bonus for a complete installation directly to the employee completing the install.


Everything you said seems accurate. Your experience is duplicated often.....I get the same stories where I am.

The variation I get is that people call DTV and specifically ask for me but get a recent hire from out of the area. It is the way DTV chooses to do business.
Bad news does not climb stairs very well and they won't let it on the elevators.

Deal with your local guy.

Joe

#32 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 11:44 AM

I had DirecTV send their preferred installer (Ironwood) in the area. It was a Saturday appointment. I think the guy was basically hung over and didn't want to deal with an HD installation on a Saturday. (He showed up 10 minutes prior to the end of the four hour installation window also).


Of course I have no way of knowing what happened, so you could be absolutely correct, but it could also be that the guy was simply exhausted. Most installers are forced to work at least 6 days a week, and often given double the number of jobs that they could reasonably complete in a 12 hour day. A typical HD install takes 3-4 hours, yet it isn't unusual for an installer to be routed 4 AM and 2 PM jobs. Since this certainly means that several of those customers aren't going to get installed, the tech is almost always going to try to do the easiest jobs, or the ones closest together. You'd do the same in his shoes; it's survival.

Sometimes these guys just make crap up to get out of doing labor. This is probably a case of the installers getting hourly pay regardless if the install is completed or not. There should be more of an 'incentive' bonus for a complete installation directly to the employee completing the install.


Techs don't get paid hourly, they get paid by the job. This, in theory, gives them motivation to get those jobs in. But the reality is that when they are over-routed every day, the incentive they have is to do the easist work.

The *right* answer would be to hire enough techs to meet the workload, but the pay is so low, and the treatment of the techs is so bad that turnover is huge. At any time, about half of the techs working for an HSP have less than 2 months of experience. The ones that last are the ones who learn how to exploit the system, by taking shortcuts on the install and by cherry-picking jobs. The ones who don't do this either get smart and quit or they keep working until they can no longer afford to. Meanwhile the HSP makes triple or more from DirecTV what they pay to the installer.

DirecTV has recently bought out several HSPs, but they need to buy out the rest of them and completely redo the pay structure, because with the increased competition in the market, fewer customers are going to put up with the problems the HSP program has created.

#33 OFFLINE   kevinm34232

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 06:36 PM

I don't know about the rest of you installers, but since about Halloween, the work here has dropped dramatically. There is no excuse for not getting to the job, and doing it right.

#34 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 07:10 PM

I don't know about the rest of you installers, but since about Halloween, the work here has dropped dramatically. There is no excuse for not getting to the job, and doing it right.


Yo Kevin,

EXCUSE is the wrong word. Today I did what could be called mover's connection. The DTV customer would not deal with the DTV / HSP. My rate is $60.00 /hr.

It was a plain vanilla relocate the dish. The road crew that did the initial installation stapled some cables and were no longer available to fix it.

Cut the crap!

Joe

#35 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 07:15 PM

[quote name='IIP']Of course I have no way of knowing what happened, so you could be absolutely correct, but it could also be that the guy was simply exhausted. Most installers are forced to work at least 6 days a week, and often given double the number of jobs that they could reasonably complete in a 12 hour day. A typical HD install takes 3-4 hours, yet it isn't unusual for an installer to be routed 4 AM and 2 PM jobs. Since this certainly means that several of those customers aren't going to get installed, the tech is almost always going to try to do the easiest jobs, or the ones closest together. You'd do the same in his shoes; it's survival.



Techs don't get paid hourly, they get paid by the job. This, in theory, gives them motivation to get those jobs in. But the reality is that when they are over-routed every day, the incentive they have is to do the easist work.

The *right* answer would be to hire enough techs to meet the workload, but the pay is so low, and the treatment of the techs is so bad that turnover is huge. At any time, about half of the techs working for an HSP have less than 2 months of experience. The ones that last are the ones who learn how to exploit the system, by taking shortcuts on the install and by cherry-picking jobs. The ones who don't do this either get smart and quit or they keep working until they can no longer afford to. Meanwhile the HSP makes triple or more from DirecTV what they pay to the installer.

DirecTV has recently bought out several HSPs, but they need to buy out the rest of them and completely redo the pay structure, because with the increased competition in the market, fewer customers are going to put up with the problems the HSP program has created.[/QUOTE

IIP

I await the first court case where a tech gets one of those STDs trying to get a route that is possible.

Joe

#36 OFFLINE   kevinm34232

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 05:22 PM

Yo Kevin,

EXCUSE is the wrong word. Today I did what could be called mover's connection. The DTV customer would not deal with the DTV / HSP. My rate is $60.00 /hr.

It was a plain vanilla relocate the dish. The road crew that did the initial installation stapled some cables and were no longer available to fix it.

Cut the crap!

Joe


Joe, Im not sure what you're talking about. I was referring to the IIP post about the techs being overloaded (which has been the case up til now), but that, in this area atleast, work has slowed to a crawl. So it upsets me to hear customers still having these issues when there is no reason for it.

#37 OFFLINE   curt8403

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 05:24 PM

Joe, Im not sure what you're talking about. I was referring to the IIP post about the techs being overloaded (which has been the case up til now), but that, in this area atleast, work has slowed to a crawl. So it upsets me to hear customers still having these issues when there is no reason for it.


kevin, in some areas techs are still way overloaded. we are seeing install dates that are at least a month away. Not everywher, but in some places.
I am no longer connected with Directv or any other satellite provider

#38 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 06:20 PM

Joe, Im not sure what you're talking about. I was referring to the IIP post about the techs being overloaded (which has been the case up til now), but that, in this area atleast, work has slowed to a crawl. So it upsets me to hear customers still having these issues when there is no reason for it.


Kevin,

I mistook your meaning. Sorry!

Joe

#39 OFFLINE   firefighter4evr

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 08:37 AM

Of course I have no way of knowing what happened, so you could be absolutely correct, but it could also be that the guy was simply exhausted. Most installers are forced to work at least 6 days a week, and often given double the number of jobs that they could reasonably complete in a 12 hour day. A typical HD install takes 3-4 hours, yet it isn't unusual for an installer to be routed 4 AM and 2 PM jobs. Since this certainly means that several of those customers aren't going to get installed, the tech is almost always going to try to do the easiest jobs, or the ones closest together. You'd do the same in his shoes; it's survival.



Techs don't get paid hourly, they get paid by the job. This, in theory, gives them motivation to get those jobs in. But the reality is that when they are over-routed every day, the incentive they have is to do the easist work.

The *right* answer would be to hire enough techs to meet the workload, but the pay is so low, and the treatment of the techs is so bad that turnover is huge. At any time, about half of the techs working for an HSP have less than 2 months of experience. The ones that last are the ones who learn how to exploit the system, by taking shortcuts on the install and by cherry-picking jobs. The ones who don't do this either get smart and quit or they keep working until they can no longer afford to. Meanwhile the HSP makes triple or more from DirecTV what they pay to the installer.

DirecTV has recently bought out several HSPs, but they need to buy out the rest of them and completely redo the pay structure, because with the increased competition in the market, fewer customers are going to put up with the problems the HSP program has created.




With that said.... the local ironwood is NOT hiring:confused: ..... the only ones here that are screaming for techs are contractors

My Setup

Slimline 3-LNB Dish
WB68 Muti-Switch
Living Room: R16-300
Master Bedroom: D12-500
Kids Bedroom: D12-500


Proudly Non Comcastic since 2007

#40 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 11:00 AM

With that said.... the local ironwood is NOT hiring:confused: ..... the only ones here that are screaming for techs are contractors


There s a reason for that,

Having an employee is a big deal. There are huge costs and responsibilities associated with managing the work of employees and complying with insurance and tax laws. That is why the concept of subcontractors became so popular. IF you can call an individual a company and make it look like you are just buying a completed item all the employee overhead goes away.

Then there is the control aspect of using contractors. The more you control a contractors actions the more he looks like an employee..........and those costs come back.

The game has been played this way for quite awhile.

Joe

#41 OFFLINE   firefighter4evr

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 02:19 PM

There s a reason for that,

Having an employee is a big deal. There are huge costs and responsibilities associated with managing the work of employees and complying with insurance and tax laws. That is why the concept of subcontractors became so popular. IF you can call an individual a company and make it look like you are just buying a completed item all the employee overhead goes away.

Then there is the control aspect of using contractors. The more you control a contractors actions the more he looks like an employee..........and those costs come back.

The game has been played this way for quite awhile.

Joe


So, your saying if one would wanna do installs it would be best to apply with a contractor or have your own business that does installs????

My Setup

Slimline 3-LNB Dish
WB68 Muti-Switch
Living Room: R16-300
Master Bedroom: D12-500
Kids Bedroom: D12-500


Proudly Non Comcastic since 2007

#42 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 06:51 PM

So, your saying if one would wanna do installs it would be best to apply with a contractor or have your own business that does installs????


There was a time when that would be the way to go.

Them days are gone. The money offered for DTV installs has not kept pace with the additional work required. You are limited to subcontracting from your local Home Service Provider (Ironwood). So you run up bills for materials and pay labor until your money is gone. Why would they pay you promptly? You are their competition. If you do a better job than them they would have problems.

DTV is hiring employee installers in some areas but I have not met any and I don't know of any on these sites. DTV bought Ironwood so things may change.

Joe

#43 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 10:31 PM

DirecTV bought out Ironwood and a couple of other HSPs this year, but they haven't really changed anything *except* they do pay, and on-time, something many of the HSPs didn't do. They did NOT change the pay rate (low) or the working conditions, however.

#44 OFFLINE   JoeF

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 09:26 AM

I'm happy to report that install #2 went off without a hitch!

I won't bore everyone with all the deatils, but the installer was very professional and got me up and running with no problems. A BIG thank you to all those here on DBSTalk that went "above and beyond". Now the real fun begins, figuring out how to use the features of my new toy!

#45 OFFLINE   woodybeetle

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 11:44 AM

Of course I have no way of knowing what happened, so you could be absolutely correct, but it could also be that the guy was simply exhausted. Most installers are forced to work at least 6 days a week, and often given double the number of jobs that they could reasonably complete in a 12 hour day. A typical HD install takes 3-4 hours, yet it isn't unusual for an installer to be routed 4 AM and 2 PM jobs. Since this certainly means that several of those customers aren't going to get installed, the tech is almost always going to try to do the easiest jobs, or the ones closest together. You'd do the same in his shoes; it's survival.



Techs don't get paid hourly, they get paid by the job. This, in theory, gives them motivation to get those jobs in. But the reality is that when they are over-routed every day, the incentive they have is to do the easist work.

The *right* answer would be to hire enough techs to meet the workload, but the pay is so low, and the treatment of the techs is so bad that turnover is huge. At any time, about half of the techs working for an HSP have less than 2 months of experience. The ones that last are the ones who learn how to exploit the system, by taking shortcuts on the install and by cherry-picking jobs. The ones who don't do this either get smart and quit or they keep working until they can no longer afford to. Meanwhile the HSP makes triple or more from DirecTV what they pay to the installer.

DirecTV has recently bought out several HSPs, but they need to buy out the rest of them and completely redo the pay structure, because with the increased competition in the market, fewer customers are going to put up with the problems the HSP program has created.


You know, its funny, here in FL the local DTV house formerly Bruisters offered me 12.00 an hour to install and to train their new hires. I am still stunned by the offer. I have 15 years on job experience, every type of certification you can think of, a list of customers as a SO and emore references than pretty much most of the guys in the local shop. I now know why the local installers are so piss poor. To leave on a bright note though. I was told I would be able to max out at 23.00 an hour in about 2 years. Thats hard to hear, I bill 90.00 for a service call on commercial installations, 10.00 per channel for headend balancing. I was just so pleased to find that in 2 years I could ake in a week what I normally make in a day or 2. Sad part was I was approached by them to help add some technical "prowness" to their staff.
Daniel D. Corum
DDCESI/Idiot Proof Television

#46 OFFLINE   firefighter4evr

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 01:37 PM

There was a time when that would be the way to go.

Them days are gone. The money offered for DTV installs has not kept pace with the additional work required. You are limited to subcontracting from your local Home Service Provider (Ironwood). So you run up bills for materials and pay labor until your money is gone. Why would they pay you promptly? You are their competition. If you do a better job than them they would have problems.

DTV is hiring employee installers in some areas but I have not met any and I don't know of any on these sites. DTV bought Ironwood so things may change.

Joe


I have met one.... ironically his name was JOE..... he told me that he was very happy working for them and that it was a great place to work.... In fact he was the tech that gave me his tech # to use him for a referal... I have applied 4 times now, can't get any response except an email say that they have review my resume and they where excited to forward my resume to the hiring manager and i should hear from them soon...... :shrug:


I dunno, maybe its time to give up and apply with dish...... Im starting to think your right joe... i think the reason im not getting called is cause with my schooling and all i am more qualified that the supervisor!

My Setup

Slimline 3-LNB Dish
WB68 Muti-Switch
Living Room: R16-300
Master Bedroom: D12-500
Kids Bedroom: D12-500


Proudly Non Comcastic since 2007

#47 OFFLINE   timmmaaayyy2003

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 01:42 PM

I have met one.... ironically his name was JOE..... he told me that he was very happy working for them and that it was a great place to work.... In fact he was the tech that gave me his tech # to use him for a referal... I have applied 4 times now, can't get any response except an email say that they have review my resume and they where excited to forward my resume to the hiring manager and i should hear from them soon...... :shrug:


I dunno, maybe its time to give up and apply with dish...... Im starting to think your right joe... i think the reason im not getting called is cause with my schooling and all i am more qualified that the supervisor!


Don't you just love being "overqualified"?

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I guess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue! :D

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#48 OFFLINE   firefighter4evr

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 01:49 PM

Don't you just love being "overqualified"?

Story of my life:(


:lol: the whole reason that i paid 28,000 dollars to go to college to learn how to do this stuff was so i could get a job doing what i love to do... :lol:


Now, im "Overqualified":rolleyes:


Well, like i said... ill just apply at dish and see what come up.... if worst comes to worse, i guess i could settle for comcast:eek2: :nono2: :nono2:

My Setup

Slimline 3-LNB Dish
WB68 Muti-Switch
Living Room: R16-300
Master Bedroom: D12-500
Kids Bedroom: D12-500


Proudly Non Comcastic since 2007

#49 OFFLINE   timmmaaayyy2003

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 01:51 PM

:lol: the whole reason that i paid 28,000 dollars to go to college to learn how to do this stuff was so i could get a job doing what i love to do... :lol:


Now, im "Overqualified":rolleyes:


Well, like i said... ill just apply at dish and see what come up.... if worst comes to worse, i guess i could settle for comcast:eek2: :nono2: :nono2:


Only 28,000? You got off easy:eek2:
Phil B.

I guess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue! :D

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#50 OFFLINE   firefighter4evr

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 01:56 PM

Only 28,000? You got off easy:eek2:



They thought us cable and satellite systems, electrical systems and computer networking in my course so for the price i thought it was pretty good:)

My Setup

Slimline 3-LNB Dish
WB68 Muti-Switch
Living Room: R16-300
Master Bedroom: D12-500
Kids Bedroom: D12-500


Proudly Non Comcastic since 2007




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