Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

AU9, SWM, Lost Even TP's


  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,143 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 19 November 2008 - 07:13 PM

Well, I can use some help from the installation experts.

Today, all receivers in the house lost every even transponder on 101° and 99°. 103°, 110°, and 119° are fine.

It took me a few hours to figure out what was wrong, but now need to figure out what to do next.

The AU9 dish is connected to two (2) SWM-8's thru 1-side power pass splitter's.

At first I thought the problem was within the house, but everything I tried failed. I eventually shut off every receiver and both SWM's but nothing solved the problem.

Then I decided to go into the attic and disconnect both SWM's from the AU9 Dish and hook up one receiver directly to the Dish.

Well, to my surprise, one of the connections to one of the 2-way splitters was all burned out. Totally fried.

There are four cables from the Dish to the four splitters. It's right at the point where one of those four cables connected to one of the splitters that was all burned out.

What the heck would cause that?

I then cut back about 6-inches to replace the connector and the 2-way splitter, but it appears that the entire cable from the attic to outside on the roof may by fried.

And I myself can't get to the roof.

I'm expecting that I need to get an installer here but what do you guys think happened?

Any way to move wires around to get back 101° and maybe move the problem to another sat?

All feedback appreciated!
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   Mertzen

Mertzen

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,682 posts
Joined: Dec 08, 2006

Posted 19 November 2008 - 07:26 PM

Any pics? Most likely a short or water penetration.
No longer doing DBS work, but missing every moment of it.

#3 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,957 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 19 November 2008 - 07:28 PM

Any rain?
Sounds like "that" cable had a short [causing excessive current draw]
Which tps did you lose? 13 volt = odds. 18 volt = evens.
You could swap with the "tone" pair and move the problem over to 103/119/110, which might only affect your loss of "part" of 103, as 119/110 you may not need [as much].
A.K.A VOS

#4 OFFLINE   BattleZone

BattleZone

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 8,969 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2007

Posted 19 November 2008 - 07:35 PM

Definitely a short. The most common cause is one "hair" of the shield braid being lose in the connector, either causing a hard short or arcing. The second most common cause is a kink or crush of the cable, which causes the center conductor to break through the dielectric and touch the shield. Third is a cut/tear/abrasion of the cable jacket that allows moisture entry.

You definitely need to replace the entire cable run. Most likely the dielectric is melted over much of the cable's length.

#5 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,143 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 19 November 2008 - 07:39 PM

Any rain?
Sounds like "that" cable had a short [causing excessive current draw]
Which tps did you lose? 13 volt = odds. 18 volt = evens.
You could swap with the "tone" pair and move the problem over to 103/119/110, which might only affect your loss of "part" of 103, as 119/110 you may not need [as much].

Thanks VOS. Appreciate the help.

101°, every even TP is 0.
110°, all odd/even fine.
119°, all odd/even fine.
99°(s), even even TP is 0.
99°©, every even TP is 0.
103(s), all even/odd fine.
103©, all odd/even fine
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#6 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,143 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 19 November 2008 - 07:41 PM

Definitely a short. The most common cause is one "hair" of the shield braid being lose in the connector, either causing a hard short or arcing. The second most common cause is a kink or crush of the cable, which causes the center conductor to break through the dielectric and touch the shield. Third is a cut/tear/abrasion of the cable jacket that allows moisture entry.

You definitely need to replace the entire cable run. Most likely the dielectric is melted over much of the cable's length.

Yep, when I cut back the cable 6 inches, the center was slightly black coated, and the quad shield braiding was very brittle.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#7 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,143 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 19 November 2008 - 07:45 PM

BTW, 99° 16/20(even) is where my HD locals are. Using NY DNS 390's (from 103°) in the meantime but series links are all messed up. And guide is messed up with missing 101° TP's°.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#8 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,143 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 19 November 2008 - 07:47 PM

Also, I moved the bad connection from SWM port #1 (18v) to SWM port #2 (13v) earlier and the problem did not move.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#9 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,957 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 19 November 2008 - 07:49 PM

BTW, 99° 16/20(even) is where my HD locals are. Using NY DNS 390's (from 103°) in the meantime but series links are all messed up. And guide is messed up with missing 101° TP's°.

[back to the SWM and] swap the 13 volt tone to the 18 volt [no tone], do quck check of what you're now missing and maybe then move the 13 volt tone over to the 18 volt tone.
You will be "missing something", but which "something" can be "adjusted" :lol:
A.K.A VOS

#10 OFFLINE   houskamp

houskamp

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 8,636 posts
Joined: Sep 14, 2006

Posted 19 November 2008 - 08:06 PM

I would suspect something more along the lines of a lightning strike to dammage the cable that bad...

AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#11 OFFLINE   RobertE

RobertE

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 8,024 posts
Joined: Jun 09, 2006

Posted 19 November 2008 - 08:07 PM

Yep, when I cut back the cable 6 inches, the center was slightly black coated, and the quad shield braiding was very brittle.


Water is getting in the line somewhere.
Have an Error or Diagnostic code? Find out what it means and how to fix it here: Click Me
Having issues with your HD locals? Report them here: Click Me
Is your receiver compatible with MRV? Check Here

#12 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,143 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 19 November 2008 - 08:08 PM

did some swapping ... now all zero ... gotta play some more ...
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#13 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,143 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 19 November 2008 - 08:09 PM

Water is getting in the line somewhere.

did have a very bad storm and wind last night.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#14 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,143 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 19 November 2008 - 08:36 PM

Ok. I did the swapping and to my surprise now every transponder has signal.

Think I'm just lucky for now and the cable still needs to be replaced but re-booting a few receivers now to check this out.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#15 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,143 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 19 November 2008 - 08:44 PM

Water is getting in the line somewhere.

Robert, right at the connection to the splitter in the attic, the connection was all burned out, totally fried. At first I couldn't get the connector off because it was tight. I got the other 3 off easily. When I finally got it disconnected, the stem of the coax was glued into the splitter and the splitter input was all black. The inside of the connector was also all black with no coax sticking out (because it was still in the splitter).

When I cut back a few inches, the coax was solid but had a blackish coating on it. And the quad shield braiding was corroded looking and brittle.

I must admit that I've replaced almost every coax connector in the house with PPC EX6XL compression connectors, but the 4 lines from the dish have 10-year old connecters that were crimped with a pliers.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#16 OFFLINE   RobertE

RobertE

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 8,024 posts
Joined: Jun 09, 2006

Posted 19 November 2008 - 09:05 PM

Robert, right at the connection to the splitter in the attic, the connection was all burned out, totally fried. At first I couldn't get the connector off because it was tight. I got the other 3 off easily. When I finally got it disconnected, the stem of the coax was glued into the splitter and the splitter input was all black. The inside of the connector was also all black with no coax sticking out (because it was still in the splitter).

When I cut back a few inches, the coax was solid but had a blackish coating on it. And the quad shield braiding was corroded looking and brittle.

I must admit that I've replaced almost every coax connector in the house with PPC EX6XL compression connectors, but the 4 lines from the dish have 10-year old connecters that were crimped with a pliers.


Ugh. I'd look into replacing those lines.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a bad connector outside. Could just be a small crack in the outer jacket letting the water in. The water will flow down the jacket to the first break, like a connector. There it will make contact with center conductor causing the short.
Have an Error or Diagnostic code? Find out what it means and how to fix it here: Click Me
Having issues with your HD locals? Report them here: Click Me
Is your receiver compatible with MRV? Check Here

#17 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,143 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 19 November 2008 - 09:15 PM

Ugh. I'd look into replacing those lines.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a bad connector outside. Could just be a small crack in the outer jacket letting the water in. The water will flow down the jacket to the first break, like a connector. There it will make contact with center conductor causing the short.

Thanks.

Going to replace all 4 lines pronto.

All is working for now.

Thanks everyone for the help.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#18 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,143 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 19 November 2008 - 11:07 PM

Ugh. I'd look into replacing those lines.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a bad connector outside. Could just be a small crack in the outer jacket letting the water in. The water will flow down the jacket to the first break, like a connector. There it will make contact with center conductor causing the short.

Robert, by the fact that I eventually got it working tonight by putting a new connector on the line and replacing the splitter, would you assume that the outside connection is ok?

All is still working tonight.

It's just weird that when I first replaced the connector and splitter, it did not work.

It wasn't until VOS recommended moving the cables around that it began working so I'm guessing that the cable is now flakey and needs to be replaced asap, but at least the whole house is back up and running.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#19 OFFLINE   eakes

eakes

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 350 posts
Joined: Sep 21, 2007

Posted 20 November 2008 - 09:32 AM

From your description, the damage seen is caused by long exposure to moisture. Eventually the center conductor of the cable where it contacts the splitter would totally disappear. The fact that the coax appears stiff and moving it around helped restore service indicates water damage to the cable. The only possible fix is to replace the cable, obviously, the other three cables should also be replaced at the same time since they may also be damaged but at a different point on the deterioration curve. The cable should be replaced all the way to the antenna.

#20 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 32,045 posts
Joined: Jul 28, 2004

Posted 20 November 2008 - 10:37 AM

Sixto:

The good news is that it appears your SWM and other devices are not damaged or faulty.

This clearly looks like a coax line/connector issue. I'm assuming your stuff is all properly grounded.

Whether moisture came into play...not sure.

What I do know is that even if small things are amuck (like the middle copper prong on a coax connector is too long or too short a fraction)...a spark can happen, causing some of the same symptoms you described.

The fact that the problem went away when you re-ran new lines and/or a connector end seems to reinforce it may have just been a bad end someplace (or two places).
DBSTalk CHAT ROOM MODERATOR
DirecTV Customer Since 1996




Protected By... spam firewall...And...