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AU9, SWM, Lost Even TP's


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56 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 03:52 PM

One thing you may want to do to help avoiding killing your swm/switch/splitters is to put a piece of sacrificial cable and a barrel in line. That way, if/when the connector goes bad again, it will only take out that connector, barrel & short piece of coax. While a PITA it would be a whole lot better to kill cheap stuff than expensive stuff. :)
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#22 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 11:49 PM

Thanks guys.

Everything is still working tonight and I do have an appointment scheduled to replace all 4 lines.

Seems like the outside will be ok when they open it up. Fingers crossed.

I was so tempted to go up on the roof today ... but it was 30 degrees, the Dish is high on the roof, and I'm not good with heights ... other then that I would have been fine :)

Thanks again.
DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#23 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 01:42 PM

Robert,

What do you think the chances are that the DirecTV installer will show up with quality cable to replace the 4 lines from the dish into the house.

I've been using older Belden 1189a cable within the home with PPC EX6XL connectors. Was thinking of picking up some Belden 7916a cable and creating the four cables before they arrive.

Think they'l come with something as good as 7916a and EX6XL?
DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#24 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 01:59 PM

Robert,

What do you think the chances are that the DirecTV installer will show up with quality cable to replace the 4 lines from the dish into the house.

I've been using older Belden 1189a cable within the home with PPC EX6XL connectors. Was thinking of picking up some Belden 7916a cable and creating the four cables before they arrive.

Think they'l come with something as good as 7916a and EX6XL?


Doubt it will be belden cable, most likely eagle aspen or perfect vision. Regardless, it will (should) be on the approved materials list from DirecTv, so I wouldn't worry about it.
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#25 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 02:02 PM

Doubt it will be belden cable, most likely eagle aspen or perfect vision. Regardless, it will (should) be on the approved materials list from DirecTv, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Cool. Thanks.

Guess I'll hope for the best.
DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#26 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 08:54 PM

I'm back. What a day. Been struggling for a good 5-6 hours.

Had the 4 lines from the dish replaced today.

Hooked them to the 4 splitters. Zero signal throughout the house. :eek:

Brought a receiver and TV to the attic. Tried all four lines directly from the dish to the receiver. Perfect signal for each line. Ok, the problem is not the dish.

Hooked back up the dual SWM's ... played, and played, and played ... best I could do is get back to just getting the odd transponders. Re-booting all 5 receivers in multiple configurations, tested each individual cable with a SWM Meter. Everything I tested found zero errors.

I finally decided to just remove one of the SWM's.

All is well again. Ok, at least now tonight's shows will record.

I'm starting to think that the cause of this entire problem is when I added a new receiver (H21-200, 10th tuner) to SWM #2 a little over a week ago. Had been running for many months with absolutely no problem.

Before I do anything else ... a sanity check ...

For a dual SWM-8 environment, should the splitters from the dish to the SWM's be single-side power passing or two-side power passing? I've had single-power passing forever.

Thought I was a SWM expert, since I've been fine for 18 months but something weird is going on.

All comments welcome.
DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#27 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:11 PM

single would be correct..
any chance the splitters got water in them too and are damaged?

AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#28 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:31 PM

single would be correct..
any chance the splitters got water in them too and are damaged?

I doubt it.

When we replaced the lines today, I did notice that the 4th line, the line that was burned out last week, and I replaced with a new connector and a new splitter, was mostly burned out again. I figured it was just the result of not replacing that line until today.

I'm now running with just the one SWM to get through the night.

Also just noticed another anomaly. When I added the 10th tuner, the 2nd tuner on SWM#2, I did so by using the previously empty output from SWM#2 port-2. Used a line from SWM#2 port-2 to the patch panel. And then in the patch panel used an in-line connector to connect to the line that runs to the room with the 10th tuner.

When I just removed the in-line connector, it also is black inside.

SWM#2 is on the non-power passing side of the splitters to the dish.

I'm wondering if there's a problem with SWM#2.

Can't do any more testing until everything records tonight.
DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#29 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:40 PM

I doubt it.

When we replaced the lines today, I did notice that the 4th line, the line that was burned out last week, and I replaced with a new connector and a new splitter, was mostly burned out again. I figured it was just the result of not replacing that line until today.

I'm now running with just the one SWM to get through the night.

Also just noticed another anomaly. When I added the 10th tuner, the 2nd tuner on SWM#2, I did so by using the previously empty output from SWM#2 port-2. Used a line from SWM#2 port-2 to the patch panel. And then in the patch panel used an in-line connector to connect to the line that runs to the room with the 10th tuner.

When I just removed the in-line connector, it also is black inside.

SWM#2 is on the non-power passing side of the splitters to the dish.

I'm wondering if there's a problem with SWM#2.

Can't do any more testing until everything records tonight.

now you got me wondering about a grounding problem.. check to see if there is any voltage from reciever to line (while disconnected)..

AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#30 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:47 PM

now you got me wondering about a grounding problem.. check to see if there is any voltage from receiver to line (while disconnected)..

So you want me to check the line from the receiver without it being connected to the SWM?

The lines and SWM are currently not grounded. I was going to hook that up tomorrow. The new lines went to a different spot and I couldn't ground them yet.

Lack of grounding could cause a problem in the interim?
DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#31 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:56 PM

So you want me to check the line from the receiver without it being connected to the SWM?

The lines and SWM are currently not grounded. I was going to hook that up tomorrow. The new lines went to a different spot and I couldn't ground them yet.

Lack of grounding could cause a problem in the interim?

on your 1st question: correct between the line and reciever or line and SWM
I'm seriously wondering about a difference in "ground potential".. that is having a voltage difference between to grounding points that is being corrected thru your rg6..

AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#32 OFFLINE   woodybeetle

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 10:54 PM

I doubt it.

When we replaced the lines today, I did notice that the 4th line, the line that was burned out last week, and I replaced with a new connector and a new splitter, was mostly burned out again. I figured it was just the result of not replacing that line until today.

I'm now running with just the one SWM to get through the night.

Also just noticed another anomaly. When I added the 10th tuner, the 2nd tuner on SWM#2, I did so by using the previously empty output from SWM#2 port-2. Used a line from SWM#2 port-2 to the patch panel. And then in the patch panel used an in-line connector to connect to the line that runs to the room with the 10th tuner.

When I just removed the in-line connector, it also is black inside.

SWM#2 is on the non-power passing side of the splitters to the dish.

I'm wondering if there's a problem with SWM#2.

Can't do any more testing until everything records tonight.


Sounds more likely that tuner 10 has a voltage issue and is passing it upstream to the SWM setups. The tuner should not push voltage up the line if it is in SWM mode. This very well could be the problem.
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#33 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 10:55 PM

on your 1st question: correct between the line and reciever or line and SWM
I'm seriously wondering about a difference in "ground potential".. that is having a voltage difference between to grounding points that is being corrected thru your rg6..

please explain if you can.

couldn't find a voltage meter. will pick one up tomorrow.

I touch the center of the coax and look for voltage?
DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#34 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 11:32 PM

please explain if you can.

couldn't find a voltage meter. will pick one up tomorrow.

I touch the center of the coax and look for voltage?

outside of coax to reciever case ..

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MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#35 OFFLINE   pequenotato

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:29 AM

outside of coax to reciever case ..


just one by one (swm) i wonder are you use hfs splliters rate 2- 2300mhz
maybe you to amp the signal from dish dtv

#36 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 09:48 AM

Getting closer.

Just swapped SWM#2 with SWM#1. SWM#1 was running all night with no problem.

SWM#2 also now seems to be fine. High 90's on most transponders. I thought maybe SWM#2 was the problem.

Looks like the problem is with the 2-way splitters, the wiring from the splitters to the SWM's, or the wiring on the SWM#2 side to the house.

Still running with just one SWM-8 (no split from dish) until I figure this out.

Also need to run out and get a volt meter today.

Once I get the volt meter, any specific setting? and then I touch the center and the receiver.
DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#37 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:14 AM

Getting closer.

Just swapped SWM#2 with SWM#1. SWM#1 was running all night with no problem.

SWM#2 also now seems to be fine. High 90's on most transponders. I thought maybe SWM#2 was the problem.

Looks like the problem is with the 2-way splitters, the wiring from the splitters to the SWM's, or the wiring on the SWM#2 side to the house.

Still running with just one SWM-8 (no split from dish) until I figure this out.

Also need to run out and get a volt meter today.

Once I get the volt meter, any specific setting? and then I touch the center and the receiver.

As you should know by now:
PI = 29 volts DC
dish: ~ 13 & 18 volts.
A.K.A VOS

#38 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 11:37 AM

Sometime back, Earl & I went over splitters with powered multi-switches & non-powered. He knew of problems using splitters with both legs power passing, so there does seem to be "something" that happens using both legs power passing. With both multi-switches non-powered, you must use splitters that will pass from either leg.
Your link looks like it is close to this one: http://www.a1compone....aspx?item=4349

BUT: the Skywalker is "diode steered", which means either leg can be power passing.
With two powered switches, I would think Skywalkers would be a better choice because: with a single leg splitter, only one drives the dish. Should this one lose power, the dish loses power, but with a diode steered, the "other" switch would then power the dish.

Given that you already have your splitters, I would used them, if they're not damaged.

i've had the dual SWM-8 setup for many months. Everything was perfect.

4 cables from the dish to the single-side power passing PV23-402's. then 4 cables to each SWM-8. SWM#1 was on the power passing side and had 2 HR2x's on port-1 (after the PI) and 2 HR2x's on port-2. SWM#2 was on the non-power passing side and had a single H21 on port-1 (after the PI). All was perfect.
dish <---> 4 one-side power passing PV23-402's

PV23-402     power passing <--> SWM#1 <--> port-1 (PI) <--> 2-way splitter <--> HR21
                                                                           <--> HR21
                                           port-2      <--> 2-way splitter <--> HR21
                                                                           <--> HR21
PV23-402 non-power passing <--> SWM#2 <--> port-1 (PI) <--> H21
Within the last 2 weeks, there were two changes. Seems more then a coincidence that the burn out occurred within a week of the changes.

I wanted to add another H21-200 (the 10th tuner). Since it's in the same room as one of the HR21's, I split the signal in the room and moved the HR21 connection from SWM#1 to SWM#2 and hooked up the H21-200 as well. The end result was now 6 tuners on SWM#1 and 4 tuners on SWM#2.

In order to do the swap, I did make two changes which I now have second thoughts about. The HR21 line that I moved from SWM#1 to SWM#2 was on a 2-way split. Since I didn't have another in-line RG6 coupler I just terminated one side of the 2-way split. Also, when I hooked up the HR21 line to SWM#2 I did use the only in-line RG6 coupler I had but I have no idea what the rating of it is. And when I removed it last night (to move the HR21 back to SWM#1) there was a charcoal coating on both sides of the coupler.
dish <---> 4 one-side power passing PV23-402's

PV23-402     power passing <--> SWM#1 <--> port-1 (PI) <--> 2-way splitter <--> HR21
                                                                           <--> HR21
                                           port-2      <--> 2-way splitter <--> [COLOR="Red"][B]Term[/B][/COLOR]
                                                                           <--> HR21
PV23-402 non-power passing <--> SWM#2 <--> port-1 (PI) <--> H21
                                           port-2      [COLOR="Red"][B]<-->[/B][/COLOR] 2-way splitter <--> HR21
                                                                           <--> H21
There was also one other change. Several days before, I hooked a 1020a tuner card to the legacy-1 port of SWM#2 to try and test to collect some transponder data for the first time. It has since been removed until I figure out if that caused the problem.
DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#39 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 01:17 PM

I don't see anything wrong with either of your setups.
Cables "smoking" are due to too many "amps", from either an over voltage or a lower impedance load.
With "all of your cables" and your SWM 1 working/SWM 2 not, "I kind of wonder" if #2 wasn't getting power. Could you have mixed the cables and had the PI connected to output #2? I know I could have [or have in other "setups", at least].
Sometimes once things get out of hand, starting from "square one" and checking/connecting everything [correctly] can do wonders.
When I had to "relieve someone", on an aircraft, that had been "working" it for a while, I'd simply start over and fix it quicker than trying to follow their steps.
A.K.A VOS

#40 OFFLINE   rudeney

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 01:22 PM

I wonder if that terminator on the splitter is bad. If it's shorted, it could be causing problems.




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