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Guest Message by DevFuse

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AU9, SWM, Lost Even TP's


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56 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 02:10 PM

I don't see anything wrong with either of your setups.
Cables "smoking" are due to too many "amps", from either an over voltage or a lower impedance load.
With "all of your cables" and your SWM 1 working/SWM 2 not, "I kind of wonder" if #2 wasn't getting power. Could you have mixed the cables and had the PI connected to output #2? I know I could have [or have in other "setups", at least].
Sometimes once things get out of hand, starting from "square one" and checking/connecting everything [correctly] can do wonders.
When I had to "relieve someone", on an aircraft, that had been "working" it for a while, I'd simply start over and fix it quicker than trying to follow their steps.

Thanks VOS. Just picked up a volt meter and the following cable tester:http://www.idealindu...o?prodId=33-856

Need to do some testing later after Thanksgiving stuff.

The setup was working perfectly for many months, so thinking it has something to do with what I changed. I didn't touch the PI connections.

That 1020a tuner I hooked to the legacy port worries me even though others thought it should work fine. It's disconnected now.

I made 3 changes within the same week. 1) 1020a to legacy port of SWM#2, 2) moved HR21 from SWM#1 to SWM#2 and terminated one-side of 2-way splitter on SWM#1, 3) added H21 to SWM#2 by connecting line to SWM#2 port#2.

Thanks for the help. Will test.

DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

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#42 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 04:28 PM

Thanks VOS. Just picked up a volt meter and the following cable tester:http://www.idealindu...o?prodId=33-856

Need to do some testing later after Thanksgiving stuff.

The setup was working perfectly for many months, so thinking it has something to do with what I changed. I didn't touch the PI connections.

That 1020a tuner I hooked to the legacy port worries me even though others thought it should work fine. It's disconnected now.

I made 3 changes within the same week. 1) 1020a to legacy port of SWM#2, 2) moved HR21 from SWM#1 to SWM#2 and terminated one-side of 2-way splitter on SWM#1, 3) added H21 to SWM#2 by connecting line to SWM#2 port#2.

Thanks for the help. Will test.

Also remember that the SWM8 can be powered through the legacy port #3, so you might not want to use it. MDU system use the legacy #3 port to power their systems.
A.K.A VOS

#43 OFFLINE   Canis Lupus

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 04:37 PM

Sixto,
I have a SWM meter from field tests of the SWMLine. With Tom or Doug or Stuart's permission, I'm sure i could lend it to you to help you make sure everything's cool, then you could send it back at your leisure. Would this help?

EDIT: Looks like you picked one up? If you'd prefer the DirecTV meter, my offer still stands. :)
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#44 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 04:44 PM

Sixto,
I have a SWM meter from field tests of the SWMLine. With Tom or Doug or Stuart's permission, I'm sure i could lend it to you to help you make sure everything's cool, then you could send it back at your leisure. Would this help?

EDIT: Looks like you picked one up? If you'd prefer the DirecTV meter, my offer still stands. :)

Thanks CL, but I'm good. The two SWM-8's were new and in parallel. I also have a field trial SWM-8 that I have out-of-service as a backup if one of the production SWM-8's ever fail. Thought I was going to use it but I've now tested both SWM-8's separately and I think they are both perfectly fine.

DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

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#45 OFFLINE   Canis Lupus

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 04:49 PM

Ah ok - good news then!

Thanks CL, but I'm good. The two SWM-8's were new and in parallel. I also have a field trial SWM-8 that I have out-of-service as a backup if one of the production SWM-8's ever fail. Thought I was going to use it but I've now tested both SWM-8's separately and I think they are both perfectly fine.


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#46 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:13 PM

Also remember that the SWM8 can be powered through the legacy port #3, so you might not want to use it. MDU system use the legacy #3 port to power their systems.

VOS, I had the 1020a hooked to legacy-1 of SWM#2.

Ok, just did some testing with the IDEAL Cable Tester. Every line I tested was fine.

Except, I have another bad 2-way splitter.

It's tough to test the one-side power passing splitters since power only passes on the one side. I hooked the IDEAL terminator to the power passing side and hooked up the meter. 3 of the 4 splitters passed. 1 showed "open".

Just tried another test with all 4 splitters by pumping a cable TV signal thru each. The same splitter failed.

Next step is to re hookup the parallel SWM's with a new 4th splitter. I just bought a few more splitters earlier in the week just in case.

If I get this to work then the real issue is to figure out what really happened to burn the splitters.

While we thought it was water, or a bad cable to the dish (which have now been replaced). I'm thinking the 1020a on the SWM #2 legacy port #1 caused the problem.

More testing to come ...

DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

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#47 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:34 PM

VOS, I had the 1020a hooked to legacy-1 of SWM#2.

Ok, just did some testing with the IDEAL Cable Tester. Every line I tested was fine.

Except, I have another bad 2-way splitter.

It's tough to test the one-side power passing splitters since power only passes on the one side. I hooked the IDEAL terminator to the power passing side and hooked up the meter. 3 of the 4 splitters passed. 1 showed "open".

Just tried another test with all 4 splitters by pumping a cable TV signal thru each. The same splitter failed.

Next step is to re hookup the parallel SWM's with a new 4th splitter. I just bought a few more splitters earlier in the week just in case.

If I get this to work then the real issue is to figure out what really happened to burn the splitters.

While we thought it was water, or a bad cable to the dish (which have now been replaced). I'm thinking the 1020a on the SWM #2 legacy port #1 caused the problem.

More testing to come ...

"Testing splitters":
The power passing/not passing could be done with a volt meter and the PI. [do you have voltage or don't you].
The RF [passing/not passing] could be done with the SWM meter.
SWM->splitter->PI-> SWM meter
********\\--> SWM meter

& PI -> splitter--> voltmeter
********\\ --> voltmeter

"Crude" but should work.
A.K.A VOS

#48 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 09:31 PM

Do plan to pick up the analysis tomorrow.

Still running off the one SWM-8 just fine.

I'm sure I can get the dual SWM-8 environment back up and running tomorrow, but absolutely need/want to figure out what caused the problem.

First thing tomorrow I'm going to install a gounding bar near the location. Picked up the bar and wiring yesterday. The splitter's and SWM's were never grounded previously.

Did some tests on the 1020a tuner card tonight. Voltage is 13.83 volts for odd transponders, and 19.14 volts for even transponders. Don't know that I have the guts to reattach the tuner card to the SWM#2 legacy port. May get the dual SWM's working again and leave for a week to verify that the problem is or not the tuner card.

DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

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#49 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:17 PM

All up and running. All 10 tuners. Every perfect.

Re-did everything. Installed plywood on attic wall, nicely positioned all 4 splitters and both SWM-8's. Now looks very professional. And it works.

Installed ground block. All 4 splitters and both SWM-8's are now grounded.

All quad shielded RG6 with PPC EX6-XL connectors.

Now, there were two changes.

1) I used power passing on BOTH sides this time. We'll see how this goes.

2) I did not hook in the 1020a sat tuner card.

Now very comfortable testing with the SWM Meter, Voltage Meter, and IDEAL Video Meter.

Will let this sit for the next few days before any attempted legacy port testing again with the 1020a.

DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

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#50 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:38 PM

WooHoo! :hurah:
A.K.A VOS

#51 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:51 PM

WooHoo! :hurah:

Yep. :)

Thanks again VOS. Now lovin the meters to technically check rather then just using trial-and-error.

The only remaining question is what caused the problem. I don't think "water" had anything to do with it.

My current theory is that the dual SWM setup doesn't like multiple tuners on the non-power passing side SWM; or it doesn't like the use of the legacy port on the non-power passing side SWM. Those were the only changes made after the dual SWM setup had been running for many months.

I switched to the power passing splitters based on some searching and looking at other implementations.

I really want to get the 1020a working but need to 100% verify that the current setup works before attempting it again.

DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

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#52 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:22 PM

Yep. :)

Thanks again VOS. Now lovin the meters to technically check rather then just using trial-and-error.

The only remaining question is what caused the problem. I don't think "water" had anything to do with it.

My current theory is that the dual SWM setup doesn't like multiple tuners on the non-power passing side SWM; or it doesn't like the use of the legacy port on the non-power passing side SWM. Those were the only changes made after the dual SWM setup had been running for many months.

I switched to the power passing splitters based on some searching and looking at other implementations.

I really want to get the 1020a working but need to 100% verify that the current setup works before attempting it again.

You're "going the right direction", and "I can't think" [maybe I should stop here :lol: ] that the 1020a would give you any trouble off a legacy port.

What "fried" your cable(s) was excessive current. As I've posted, either over voltage or low impedance would be the cause. "Voltage" might be due to a ground and "low impedance" might be due to water.
It's "the old" I=E/R "thing"
[where I is current, E is voltage, & R is resistance (aka impedance)]
A.K.A VOS

#53 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 07:25 PM

You're "going the right direction", and "I can't think" [maybe I should stop here :lol: ] that the 1020a would give you any trouble off a legacy port.

What "fried" your cable(s) was excessive current. As I've posted, either over voltage or low impedance would be the cause. "Voltage" might be due to a ground and "low impedance" might be due to water.
It's "the old" I=E/R "thing"
[where I is current, E is voltage, & R is resistance (aka impedance)]

The troubling part that I can't shake is that the problem started within days of changing the setup. Seems like too much of a coincidence.

I've gone back to trace my steps. I added the 1020a on Thursday night. Just plugged it into the SWM#2 legacy port. But I didn't get it working right away. Then on Friday night I got the H21 (10th tuner) and hooked it to SWM#2. Then Sunday I got the 1020a to successfully read data. Then Wednesday morning, all of the receivers in the house were "searching for signal". Wednesday night I discovered the burned out splitter.

These were the only changes to the setup since mid-January.

Had the dual SWM setup from mid-January to mid-November with zero problems. Not a single issue. Added the H21 and 1020a, and within a few days, burned out two splitters.

VOS, since the old environment had nothing grounded, maybe there was a latent problem that surfaced with more load?

DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

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#54 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 08:11 PM

The troubling part that I can't shake is that the problem started within days of changing the setup. Seems like too much of a coincidence.

VOS, since the old environment had nothing grounded, maybe there was a latent problem that surfaced with more load?


I understand the "it's bugging me" aspect, but really have no clue.
Grounding "is good", but I can't quite "figure" how without it the current flow would get high enough.
Sometimes you just need to break it all down, verify each piece, put it back together and then see. Many times [with aircraft] I've done just this and they work fine/last long time, after.
A.K.A VOS

#55 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 12:46 PM

Been a week now with the new configuration. New RG6 between dish and splitters. New splitters. Everything grounded. All has been fine.

Just powered off the SWM's and inspected the 4 cables from the dish to the 4 splitters.

Especially wanted to look at splitter #2 which connects to the 2nd port on the SWM's. The connection labeled Sat 99/101 13v. This is the splitter that burned out twice.

Well, although everything is fine, upon inspecting all 4 splitters, that same connection for splitter #2 look very slightly darkened. There was a very small blackish spec or two within the RG6 connector.

I wonder if I still have a problem.

What the heck could be the problem (if there is one).

This is the input connection to splitter #2, which feeds the 99/101 13V port of each SWM.

Might there be a slight problem out at the LNB?

All thoughts welcome.

There is the possibility that there was some slight residue left over when I removed the old splitter but I thought I cleaned it all perfect.

Also, now that it's been a week, I hooked up the 1020a to the legacy port. Fingers crossed!

DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

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#56 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 01:00 PM

Been a week now with the new configuration. New RG6 between dish and splitters. New splitters. Everything grounded. All has been fine.

Just powered off the SWM's and inspected the 4 cables from the dish to the 4 splitters.

Especially wanted to look at splitter #2 which connects to the 2nd port on the SWM's. The connection labeled Sat 99/101 13v. This is the splitter that burned out twice.

Well, although everything is fine, upon inspecting all 4 splitters, that same connection for splitter #2 look very slightly darkened. There was a very small blackish spec or two within the RG6 connector.

I wonder if I still have a problem.

What the heck could be the problem (if there is one).

This is the input connection to splitter #2, which feeds the 99/101 13V port of each SWM.

Might there be a slight problem out at the LNB?

All thoughts welcome.

There is the possibility that there was some slight residue left over when I removed the old splitter but I thought I cleaned it all perfect.

Also, now that it's been a week, I hooked up the 1020a to the legacy port. Fingers crossed!

I'd clean it again, and maybe swap it to the 99/101 18 volt splitter. Then come back and see if the 13 volt or the 18 volt showed any signs of this again. If it did move to the 18 volt splitter, then this might point to "something" at the dish.
A.K.A VOS

#57 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 01:19 PM

I'd clean it again, and maybe swap it to the 99/101 18 volt splitter. Then come back and see if the 13 volt or the 18 volt showed any signs of this again. If it did move to the 18 volt splitter, then this might point to "something" at the dish.

Yep, did go back (since I posted) with a white tissue and cleaned it. Also looked at the other 3. They actually all had a very slight barely visible blackish residue when I looked at the tissue after I plugged up the inside of the RG6 connections and swiped around. But that connection #2 was more visible.

It's not much but visible.

Just cleaned all 4 and will check again after some time passes.

Thanks.

DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
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