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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Use RG6 Quad or not?


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17 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   PatrickGSR94

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 03:49 PM

I saw a 500' spool of RG6 quad shield at Home Depot today for only $65. Is this a good buy? I'm going to be adding a couple of cable runs to my current 5LNB dish to feed the 2nd receiver on my HD-DVR and also to feed my other HD receiver in my bedroom.

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#2 OFFLINE   surfdude85

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 03:53 PM

yes!! go get it.. rg6 quad will work great for your needs

#3 OFFLINE   Canis Lupus

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 03:59 PM

Remember if your a DIY guy though: All tools and connectors need to work with RG6Q, and in my experience it's more of a PITA to deal with connector-wise than RG6. :)
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#4 OFFLINE   2dogz

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 04:11 PM

Make sure it has solid copper center conductor. Stuff I see in my Home Depot is copper coated steel which is not D* approved.

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#5 OFFLINE   mickcris

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 04:15 PM

If its copper clad steel then it is not a good deal. you can get a 1000 ft spool at monoprice for $58.

#6 OFFLINE   satjoe

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 04:50 PM

I saw a 500' spool of RG6 quad shield at Home Depot today for only $65. Is this a good buy? I'm going to be adding a couple of cable runs to my current 5LNB dish to feed the 2nd receiver on my HD-DVR and also to feed my other HD receiver in my bedroom.


Order on line, much cheaper. You will have to pay shipping though. Quad, dual, solid copper, and copper clad. Doesnt matter much except for purists. Comcast, Timewyner and cox and direct tv all use copper clad. Meets all the specs for install. Even cable plant is made with copper clad incased in an aluminum sheath. Its all good

Good luck

#7 OFFLINE   2dogz

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 06:20 PM

Order on line, much cheaper. You will have to pay shipping though. Quad, dual, solid copper, and copper clad. Doesnt matter much except for purists. Comcast, Timewyner and cox and direct tv all use copper clad. Meets all the specs for install. Even cable plant is made with copper clad incased in an aluminum sheath. Its all good


Well, you're wrong, D* requires solid copper coax for all installs. If you don't have it in your install, the install contractor was cutting corners. It may work but ....

The reason for it is the 13v/18v DC signal used by the receiver to control the multiswitch and LNBs. Copper coated steel coax may cause too much voltage drop over longer distances causing malfunctions that difficult to diagnose (receiver?, LNB?, multiswitch?)

The cost difference for solid copper is not all that much for a single dwelling install. And commodity prices for copper crashed along with crude prices this fall, so prices of coax should drop some this spring.

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#8 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 07:23 PM

I recommend Quad for any *permanent* cable runs, meaning if you're pre-wiring a house and putting cable in the walls. Reason? Quad shield's reason for existing is to provide more shielding, so if you're in an area with high amounts of RF interference, less will leak into the cable. If you're putting the cable in the wall, it's going to be there for a long time, and even if you don't have a problem today, who knows what the conditions will be in 10, 20, 30, 40 years? Quad Shield is cheap insurance against the labor of breaking open the walls again.

For exterior-run cable (read: easy to get to and replace), standard dual-shield is fine unless you have a known problem already.

As stated, DirecTV requires their installers use solid copper center-conductor cable, but that's primarily for legacy systems, to maximize allowable cable length. If you're using a SWM system, then copper-clad is just fine (heck, RG59 generally works!), because DC voltage switching is taken out of the equation.

#9 OFFLINE   PatrickGSR94

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 09:20 PM

Well, I really only have a couple of runs to make from my dish, both less than 100 feet.

I could just get 2 of these 100ft. RG6 quad shield w/ connectors already on it, at $13 each:

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

Or would this be a better idea, 1000 ft. of RG6 standard shield, sweep tested to 3.0 GHz, for $46? Then of course I would have to buy the compression connectors, compression tool, etc.

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

That 1000' spool says 18 AWG IMP, 75 ohm, while the 1000' quad shield cable says 18AWG copper clad steel conductor. What does that IMP mean?

#10 OFFLINE   TigersFanJJ

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 09:44 PM

Copper clad steel will work just fine on lengths of around 120' or less. This is the main reason Directv used to state the 120' maximum length for installs. They changed the requirement a few years ago for the sole purpose of getting new customers that need cables that extend well beyond that length.

I've seen CCS work great on a run of about 150' but I wouldn't recommend it.

#11 OFFLINE   PatrickGSR94

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 09:48 PM

Alright... is there a way to tell by looking at the cable if it's CCS? Will it usually say CCS on the outer jacket if it is copper clad steel, or something else if it's solid copper?

#12 OFFLINE   Cap'n Preshoot

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 09:52 PM

RG6-Quad for $65 a 500' spool is a deal. Yes, special oversize connectors are required & cable preparation for the connector can be a little daunting with the wrong tools. With the right tools it's no more difficult than working with regular RG6.

That said, Quad-Shield coax really has no useful "purpose" in satellite work. Quad-Shield RG6 is designed primarily for Cable-TV work where strong OTA signals are present and can easily leak into your cable system causing ghosting of images. The technical name for this is "Ingress radiation". This does not adversely affect Satellite signals because the sat signals are mostly in the 900~2150 Mhz frequency band.

Quad-Shield RG6 coax is not "better" than regular RG6. That's a myth. It has no better propagation or loss characteristics. Quad-shield cable has one purpose only and that's better shielding. At satellite frequencies regular RG6 is just fine.

As for a copper-clad steel center conductor vs a solid copper center conductor, that has nothing to do with RF signal propagation. If you bother to look in the books you'll find the RF signal loss (attenuation) characteristics to be identical. THE REASON a solid copper center conductor is preferred for satellite use is because there are control voltages superimposed on the coax to control the multiswitch and LNB. The solid copper center conductor will carry slightly more current (with less voltage drop) than a copper-clad steel center conductor over the same distance.

Finally to say that a specific brand of RG6 coax is "rated for 3000 Mhz" is hogwash. Yes, I know, I've seen the same cable you have, with 3000 Mhz marked on the jacket, but that's marketing hype. From a signal propagation standpoint, trust me, RG6 is RG6, period.

Edited by Cap'n Preshoot, 01 January 2009 - 09:58 PM.

The Cable and Satellite TV industry does not hold the patent on alienating its customers, but COMCAST in particular has succeeded in making an art form of it, garnering them the distinction of "Most Universally Despised" of all PAY-TV providers in the industry.

#13 OFFLINE   2dogz

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 10:14 PM

You should also check out your local electrical supply shops for RG6 cable. Type of place with long counter and guys sitting on stools in jeans and flannel shirts (the more white trademen trucks outside the better). Most will sell coax by the foot.

Using a magnet is an easy way to check if coax is steel or not. Also you can strip an inch or so to the center conductor and scrape it with a pen knife. And you can check maunfacturer's web site for specs for major brands of cable.

A good compression tool and connectors is your big up front expense. Lots of threads here on that topic over time, use the search function. But once you've made the investment, you become independent and can make any changes you need without having to call an installer in the future.

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#14 OFFLINE   satjoe

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 10:47 AM

[quote name='2dogz']Well, you're wrong, D* requires solid copper coax for all installs. If you don't have it in your install, the install contractor was cutting corners. It may work but ....

The reason for it is the 13v/18v DC signal used by the receiver to control the multiswitch and LNBs. Copper coated steel coax may cause too much voltage drop over longer distances causing malfunctions that difficult to diagnose (receiver?, LNB?, multiswitch?)

The cost difference for solid copper is not all that much for a single dwelling install. And commodity prices for copper crashed along with crude prices this fall, so prices of coax should drop some this spring.[/QUOTE
Just to let you know that I am a SBCA certified installer for Direct TV, and all we use is copper clad from Perfect 10. Straight out of our wharehouse.

#15 OFFLINE   Git

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 11:54 AM

RG6-Quad for $65 a 500' spool is a deal...


Broadband Utopia carries a 500' spool of Belden 7916a RG6 Quad for $67.93. No tax, and shipping was $15. This is the "good stuff" :)

#16 OFFLINE   PatrickGSR94

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:03 PM

Ah well, I just picked up a 500' box of standard-shield CCS RG6 for $47 from Lowe's. :)

Got the cable run from the satellite to the bedroom today and it seems to be working great with my D* H23 receiver.

#17 OFFLINE   DJTheC

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 10:16 PM

RG6Q is overkill is most instances. I'd ONLY ever use it in 'noisy' enviroments.

Solid copper is preferred mostly because of the voltage. If you ask an electrician, they would tell you that steel is a very poor conductor of electricity. YOu can use it, but don't expect great results, especially on long runs.

#18 OFFLINE   PatrickGSR94

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 08:26 AM

RG6Q is overkill is most instances. I'd ONLY ever use it in 'noisy' enviroments.

Solid copper is preferred mostly because of the voltage. If you ask an electrician, they would tell you that steel is a very poor conductor of electricity. YOu can use it, but don't expect great results, especially on long runs.


My longest run was about 60-70 feet from the satellite grounding bar outside to the connection at the wall plate in the room.




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