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ViP HD DVR Audio related Issues - (Post your current audio related issues Here)


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259 replies to this topic

#181 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 12:00 AM

Good to hear CopyChief... Please report back after about a week of random viewing with your experiences....
<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>

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#182 OFFLINE   vader22

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 03:29 PM

I watched Thursday night's Office last night and it was flawless. Most of my CBS and NBC shows are on Monday so I'll check again tomorrow night and report back.


During the watching of recorded programs on both NBC and CBS last night I had zero audio dropout! :)

#183 OFFLINE   Dood

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 07:06 AM

I echo the fact that the STL locals in HD have been audio "drop-free" for several nights now.
Dood-

#184 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 12:36 PM

phrelin- How do you listen to your audio? Like I mentioned, I have been having a pretty good experience with L6.17 and not many audio (or video dropouts) at all. I use the analog outs from the receiver to my display.

Optical digitial audio out to my AV receiver which gives 5.1 dolby digital surround sound (component video to the display).

The audio/video is always perfect on the HDNet channels, with a range of intermittent (HD locals) and occasional (some cable channels) and rare (premium channels) real problems like audio dropout and video freezes plus the daily irritations like stretch-o-vision on the Turner channels. I guess in a perfect world someone would put Mark Cuban in charge of all HD TV quality control.

I know that five years from now, this likely will all be regarded as HD growing pains.

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
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#185 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 01:08 PM

And so far I have received no response from Dish Quality to my email regarding when the fix applied to St. Louis will be applied to the Bay Area. So I sent another this morning:

Subject: No response???

Dear Dish Quality:

After putting in considerable effort to work with you all, I was disappointed that I received no response to my last email (see below).

It is very clear based on the posts at DBSTalk that the problem has been solved in St. Louis but not in the San Francisco Bay Area. Discussion of this problem on DBSTalk began with this February 2007 post Since receiving 4.49, I have been experiencing... so it isn't like I'm not patient.

I would like to know that changes similar to what was done last week for St. Louis are planned for us.



#186 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 02:09 PM

Phrelin,

How convinced are you that the issues are the same?. Based on the reports I have read in the thread I am not convinced they are. I think you might be seeing something different. If it was the same, I would expect the issue to be much more severe that it is being reported.

So know that St Louis if feeling a bit better.. Lets get some updates in the San Fran Area as to what people are seeing. What is the current state form your perspective and others fill free to chim in if you are seeing or not seeing what Pherlin is experiencing.


Ron
<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>

#187 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 02:44 PM

Phrelin,

How convinced are you that the issues are the same?. Based on the reports I have read in the thread I am not convinced they are. I think you might be seeing something different. If it was the same, I would expect the issue to be much more severe that it is being reported.

So know that St Louis if feeling a bit better.. Lets get some updates in the San Fran Area as to what people are seeing. What is the current state form your perspective and others fill free to chim in if you are seeing or not seeing what Pherlin is experiencing.


Ron

Let me begin by saying that the miserable Fox and ABC dropouts were gone with the latest software releases. But with that said....

I get momentary audio dropouts on all four HD locals on recordings only. It occurs maybe once or twice per hour show on average. It tends to occur more frequently near advertising breaks but it is not limited to that. It rarely turns my dolby digital off/on any more. They can be annoying, but sometimes either I or my wife don't hear it but it is there when skipped back and replayed. In other words, most of the time you have to be listening for them.

Ron, the St. Louis fix appears to be a significant modification of the mpeg encoding process based on the posts here. Perhaps these posts are wrong, but I don't see how they could be since no receiver software change has occurred. Since there are some video stream problems that I see (again usually almost unnoticeable on my 722 but more noticeable on my 612) I am hoping that a new encoding system would give the overall improvements here that St. Louis has experienced. I know the fix could be in the signal acquisition and uplink hardware which might mean considerable expense. But I'm going to keep nagging as I want near perfection (meaning HDNet channel quality).;)

#188 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 03:17 PM

Ron, the St. Louis fix appears to be a significant modification of the mpeg encoding process based on the posts here. Perhaps these posts are wrong, but I don't see how they could be since no receiver software change has occurred. Since there are some video stream problems that I see (again usually almost unnoticeable on my 722 but more noticeable on my 612) I am hoping that a new encoding system would give the overall improvements here that St. Louis has experienced. I know the fix could be in the signal acquisition and uplink hardware which might mean considerable expense. But I'm going to keep nagging as I want near perfection (meaning HDNet channel quality).;)


It is possible.. but the folks in St. Louis was having drop outs in much larger magnitude from what I read. It is also possible that the equipment between the two is very different.

Nothing wrong with wanting the best and working towards it, but it is also very possible that the fixes in St. Louis is specific to that particular issue. Remember, early on in the process some felt (including myself) that we were talking about a number of issues. So far we have seen two fixes. One on the sending side (St. Louis) and one on the receiver end (The one you reported).

My opinion is what you are experience Pherlin is a third. Question is.. Is it in the receiver or at the source end.

So nothing wrong with asking the question. But as simple as the answer my seem to find, I am sure it is not. Communication within companies in a lot of cases is poor at best as you cross lines of responsibility.
<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>

#189 OFFLINE   moman19

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 06:13 PM

......I get momentary audio dropouts on all four HD locals on recordings only. It occurs maybe once or twice per hour show on average. It tends to occur more frequently near advertising breaks but it is not limited to that. It rarely turns my dolby digital off/on any more.........


Frankly, this sounds quite different from the issues I was experiencing in STL prior to the fix. And I think others in this town had similar experiences. For me, the dropout issue started with the Fox and ABC locals on my 622 and 722, but migrated to NBC and CBS with a later attempt of a fix via a software upgrade. That's where it has remained until this week's cure. When the issue migrated to CBS & NBC, it only moved to the 722. In other words, my 622 has been fine for several months. I don't own a 612, so I cannot comment.

Also, when I had dropouts, I would have (without exageration) more than 100 per hour and the Dolby 5.1 pilot would flash like a beacon.

So while I don't doubt Phrelin is having a real issue, the symptoms are similar but not identical.
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#190 OFFLINE   RollTide1017

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 08:50 PM

DiSH just launch the Montgomery HD locals this week and I believe I'm experiencing this issue. I've never had a problem with audio drops until now and it is only on the newly added HD locals. I also haven't been following this issue at all since I was experiencing it so, I'm still trying grasp what is going on.

All I now is this, I watch The Office recorded from the new NBC HD local from DiSH and had about 4 audio pops throughout the episode (they sounded more like pops to me instead of drops). My wife then watched ER and noticed the same popping sound but couldn't remember how many times. Tonight we were watching a repeat House episode on our local FOX HD from DiSH and would get these weird video block flashes then the audio would sound garbled. If we paused the show for a second it would fix the audio. This happened about 5 times throughout the episode. All this only seems to happen on recordings because I never notice it when watching our local HD channels live. It is also only the local HD channels as everything else is fine.

I really hope DiSH can fish this issue because it is annoying. Since mine sound more like pops, I'm also worried about it damaging my speakers. I put a lot of money in to my speakers and can't afford to replace them any time soon. i was so excited about our locals launching but this issue has kinda deflated that excitement.

Here are my stats:
722 with 6.17
OTA is also in use and never experienced this problem from the antenna.
ViP 722 - Classic 250 - GoldHD - PlatinumHD
Samsung HLT5089S - Denon AVR2808ci
Oppo BDP-80 (Blu-Ray) - Toshiba HD-A2 (HD DVD)
Paradigm Speakers - SVS PB10-NSD sub
Xbox 360 - Wii

#191 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:47 PM

Frankly, this sounds quite different from the issues I was experiencing in STL prior to the fix. And I think others in this town had similar experiences. For me, the dropout issue started with the Fox and ABC locals on my 622 and 722, but migrated to NBC and CBS with a later attempt of a fix via a software upgrade. That's where it has remained until this week's cure. When the issue migrated to CBS & NBC, it only moved to the 722. In other words, my 622 has been fine for several months. I don't own a 612, so I cannot comment.

Also, when I had dropouts, I would have (without exageration) more than 100 per hour and the Dolby 5.1 pilot would flash like a beacon.

So while I don't doubt Phrelin is having a real issue, the symptoms are similar but not identical.

Oh, my 722 problem started just like yours. ABC and Fox were a nightmare. But then I started getting the less frequent dropouts on CBS and NBC with no dolby off/on before I sent my unit into Echostar Engineering. Everything continued with the replacement unit. The software fix for me (in the San Francisco Bay Area) eliminated the big problem with ABC and Fox. But when you all in STL developed the big problems with NBC and CBS I ended up with the less frequent, no dolby impact, dropout on all four.

Whatever they did in STL sounds like it was somewhere between them receiving the station's signal and you receiving the signal at your box, not a problem your box. And if, indeed, there was a change in compression utilities on the ground at the uplink facilities, I want that fix in the Bay Area.

The fact that from the beginning I have been getting the "minor" dropout same problem on my 612 which hasn't had any recent software updates pretty much convinces me that this is on the ground in the DMA. The appearance of new reports in new HD DMA's of the kinds of problems we experience now reinforces my mindset that there's a problem on the ground.

Infrequently, I do get other types of audio dropout on cable channels and got one on Friday's Bill Maher on HBO, which is unusual for a premium but has happened before. Once I had to re-record a movie on HBO, but I have to assume that was a problem outside my box as the second recording was perfect.

My 612 has many more audio/video problems which I know are box related - but I use it in such a way that I can live with it for now. After they get the 722k and the 922 up and screwing up, then maybe they can turn back to improving all those 612's they've foisted on folks. (Yeah, that just the cynic in me.)

And I'm getting really irked as I received no response to my last two emails sent to the same people who were asking me all kinds of questions and had me sending them my box, etc. (Ironically, the cc to Tech Support which was only to keep that division in the loop resulted in the standard form gee-what's-this-new-complaint email back asking for my account info when every @#$%&* email I sent includes all the previous emails and if the tech had read all the way down to the bottom he/she would have seen all the info was there.)

I want Echostar/Dish to do in our area whatever it was they did in St. Louis. I'm troubled by the fact that Ron in Southern California and folks in NYC and the folks in the Rockies living near Echostar's labs never had this problem and that Echostar spent all that time and money on the box software and then had to fix the STL disaster without changing the box software. All logic says there is a problem with inconsistency between the DMA's on the ground.:mad:

#192 OFFLINE   Dood

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 09:25 AM

So far - So good.

Too bad Dish Network lied to me when in was obvious there was a problem. Classless.
Dood-

#193 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 10:21 AM

As with most large support organizations, One of the main issues they all seem to have in common is the distribution of information across the front lines. These are the people that take numerous calls of all sorts and all receivers. From my past experiences and from reading posts here it is obvious that the issue tracking mechanisms within most Sat/Cable companies can definitly use improvement.

Though it may appear that Dish is lying, My personally opinion is just a lack of information exchange and poor look up tools because based on posts regarding this issue Dish was aware of it and was working on it. So I don't think it was a matter of a company just outright lying, but more a matter of not all CSRs/Advance Tech people being aware of the issue.

Anyway.. this is wondering a bit off topic here but I thought it deserved an response... I know it was a long time coming, but I am glad that St Louis got some relief and hopefully can start enjoying a better local experience.
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#194 OFFLINE   moman19

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 09:00 PM

...... I know it was a long time coming, but I am glad that St Louis got some relief and hopefully can start enjoying a better local experience.


Amen, brother. This case is closed, as far as I'm concerned.
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#195 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:56 PM

Amen, brother. This case is closed, as far as I'm concerned.

Well...! (Think Jack Benny look, or maybe you're too young.)

So you got your fix and you're abandoning the rest of us.:D

#196 OFFLINE   Dr. Cool

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 12:28 AM

If only it would be that simple:
"24" recorded OTA from Fox yesterday: no dropouts.
"The Big Red One" recorded over satellite from HDNet Movies two days ago: about five random dropouts, none of them reproducible by rewinding, image perfect (meaning, not a sat signal problem).
Watched lots of shows today, none from Platinum channels, both recorded and live, OTA and satellite, and had zero dropouts.
Again, I doubt this is a hardware problem. Otherwise, why they consistently appear only with certain shows in Platinum HD channels, and sometimes (although not lately) with OTA channels?
The engineering is probably flawed, and I bet people will realize that dropouts are endemic to certain channels and shows only slowly, as they change viewing habits, falling by chance on new troubled "spots."

#197 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 10:44 AM

Definitely a possibility Dr. Cool and one that I think has been brought up a few times since the we started the audio threads. It appears that at least two issues have been addressed since we started and some have felt ("Including myself") that we are seeing more than on issue.

My guess is what you and Pherlin are seeing might be the same and it is definitely use case based and has less weight on the customer pain scale than the previous two issues. The analogy that comes to mind is clearing the forest to see the trees. Well they have cleared two huge redwoods and are now hopefully looking at the smaller trees.

Definitely keep this feedback coming and if you can nail it to happening on particular shows I think that would be most helpful.

Edited by Ron Barry, 17 March 2009 - 02:12 PM.
Fixed Typos in analogy

<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>

#198 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 02:10 PM

The analogy that comes to mind is clearing the forest to see the trees. Well they have cleared two huge redwoods and are now hopefully looking at the smaller trees.

Ouch! Where we live Redwoods are sacred. From my web site home page:

Posted Image

Edited by Ron Barry, 17 March 2009 - 02:13 PM.
Fixed typos in analogy


#199 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 02:15 PM

:lol:

Sorry... Bad analogy for someone that is lucky to live in such a wonderful location. Love the Redwood Trees.
<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>

#200 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 03:01 PM

:lol:

Sorry... Bad analogy for someone that is lucky to live in such a wonderful location. Love the Redwood Trees.

Yeah, that really made me smile. We do feel lucky. But those trees have created line-of-sight problems for me in the past. Not that I'm complaining....:sure:




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