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Breaking News: Senate passes another DTV Delay Act, Goes to House Floor


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#26 OFFLINE   tunce

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 08:46 AM

Well I guess that's easy enough to say, and believe me I'm totally against the DTV delay as well. But while remaining politcally neutral on the issue I have to admit that if I were in government and faced with daunting reports like this from the FCC as linked in the CGC Communicator (issue #871):

http://hraunfoss.fcc...OC-287163A1.doc

I honestly can't say I wouldn't have voted for the delay myself if I were in their shoes up on capitol hill.


(Mod Edit: Redacted)

Seriously, I would still have not voted for the delay as I believe the Government does not need to be a hand holder for this. I could care less about some people not having a TV, It is not a "right" to have a TV. This country has gotten so backwards in their thinking that everything in life needs to be a "right". When people find out they can vote themselves free gifts, that ends the empire - sound familiar? :mad:

This is gotten way out of hand there are a few "third world" countries that already have switched.

Edited by Stuart Sweet, 30 January 2009 - 09:22 AM.

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#27 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 08:52 AM

<Moderator Hat On>

Please remember this is a highly political topic and that DBStalk does not permit political discussion. What we do permit and encourage is matter of fact discussion about government actions as apply to DBS and TV.

So please leave off all commentary about the parties or the political figures. Please don't compare this action to other actions the government might do. And please don't single any government person or group for insults.

Thank you,
Tom

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#28 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:02 AM

I really want to see what the new bill says about "first responder" communications.
Another point, yesterday's Cleveland Plain Dealer said Channels 3 and 25 will stay analog until June 12 no matter what. I know a retired engineer from channel 3 and he told me the station is having all types of tech problems with their new frequency digital transmitter. Chan 3 is now broadcasting digital on chan 2 and had expected to change to another channel in the teens by now.


Actually the new bill simplifies the language a tiny bit. Basically, if the spectrum is clear in an area, licensees can use it immediately (following all the existing rules for starting those transmissions.)

Cheers,
Tom

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#29 OFFLINE   Mark Holtz

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:10 AM

Sigh.... if we have so much problems and concerns with the Digital Switch, what is going to happen when we have to transition from IPv4 to IPv6?

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#30 OFFLINE   menkelis

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:12 AM

The Portland,OR area WILL be switching to DTV on Feb. 18 as planned.
I can't say anything about the rest of the state.....

#31 OFFLINE   tunce

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:32 AM

Eh, Who cares.... Not a big problem for anyone on this forum... Is anyone going to die or even loose sleep if your analog chanel stays lit longer? Like I've said before all your locals should be digitial aswell by now.....


Do you realize how much money is going to be lost by delaying this? There are companies that laid out billions for the use of the analog frequencies already and now are facing huge losses if this goes through. Just google Verizon and see what they are planning to do to the government if this passes. They are going to use the frequencies for their 4G network and were going to roll this this out soon after the DTV switch. This is not what we need during this messed up economy.

(hope this is ok and not violating anything Tom. :) )
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#32 OFFLINE   ziggy29

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:33 AM

Let's face it, folks: this is a done deal. Congress will clearly not let this one go, no matter what other issues need their attention a lot more. If they have to ignore the economy for weeks in order to get this done, they will get this done. A half million more people may lose their jobs in the meantime, but our heroes will have saved analog TV for four more months...

#33 OFFLINE   tunce

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:35 AM

Sigh.... if we have so much problems and concerns with the Digital Switch, what is going to happen when we have to transition from IPv4 to IPv6?


...oh boy that is the truest statement yet. IPv6 is going to be a mess!

(back to the topic)
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#34 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:36 AM

Do you realize how much money is going to be lost by delaying this? There are companies that laid out billions for the use of the analog frequencies already and now are facing huge losses if this goes through. Just google Verizon and see what they are planning to do to the government if this passes. They are going to use the frequencies for their 4G network and were going to roll this this out soon after the DTV switch. This is not what we need during this messed up economy.

(hope this is ok and not violating anything Tom. :) )


All good stuff. Thanks for reminding us how delaying does cost money in other ways.

People have also mentioned the fairly large electrical costs associated with dual illumination. Ranges I've seen are from $10k to $30k per month depending on the power used.

Cheers,
Tom

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#35 OFFLINE   tunce

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:44 AM

All good stuff. Thanks for reminding us how delaying does cost money in other ways.

People have also mentioned the fairly large electrical costs associated with dual illumination. Ranges I've seen are from $10k to $30k per month depending on the power used.

Cheers,
Tom


I have also heard on NPR (can't believe I listen to that can you - ha) that the true waste of dual tower electrical cost for the 4 mouth delay will use enough electricity to power every residential house in the United States for 1 whole year! (Wow)
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#36 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:46 AM

My comments are:

1. Some TVs don't have a coax input. They'll also need an adapter.
2. What about VCRs? You'll also have to train people how to use their VCR in a different way. And did they buy a converter box with timers for VCR use?
3. That tiny print scrolling across the bottom of the screen can't be read by many people due to poor eyesight.
4. That tiny print scrolling across the bottom of the screen can't be read by many people because while they may understand conversational English, they have no idea what many of the words in the scroll mean.
5. That tiny print scrolling across the bottom of the screen can't be read by many people because while English is their only language, they have no idea what many of the words in the scroll mean.
6. Some people's most complex electronic device is the TV. The toaster is the next most complex electronic device they own. My Grandma has never owned or driven a car, doesn't own a VCR or microwave, and doesn't even own a toaster. For her, the bedside clock is the next most complex device she owns. And she can't set the time on it.
7. Some people may need new antennas. Their old antennas may be fine now, but they may need new antennas on the cutoff date. They may now need to be installed outdoors. In the middle of winter.
8. Some broadcasters may need more time. My digital signals go out all day once a week on my FOX and CBS affiliates.
9. Some people are physically unable to install the new box due to medical issues.
10. The message of "perform a rescan on Feb. 17" isn't getting out to anybody. In many areas, rescans will have to be performed. I think this would cut down on a lot of the phone calls.

I also know of at least 12 people who still do not understand the analog shutdown is taking place. I've tried explaining it to them, and they just don't get it. And only four of them have cable.

#37 OFFLINE   ziggy29

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:50 AM

All good stuff. Thanks for reminding us how delaying does cost money in other ways.

People have also mentioned the fairly large electrical costs associated with dual illumination. Ranges I've seen are from $10k to $30k per month depending on the power used.

Someone elsewhere quoted a reply they got from engineering at one of the Austin stations. They said they intended to kill the analog signal after 2/17 as long as the legislation allowed them to do so because it was costing them an extra $20,000 a month to keep analog going, and this isn't an economic environment when many businesses are willing to eat that kind of cost if it's not required.

#38 OFFLINE   Sirshagg

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:58 AM

Do you realize how much money is going to be lost by delaying this? There are companies that laid out billions for the use of the analog frequencies already and now are facing huge losses if this goes through. Just google Verizon and see what they are planning to do to the government if this passes. They are going to use the frequencies for their 4G network and were going to roll this this out soon after the DTV switch. This is not what we need during this messed up economy.

(hope this is ok and not violating anything Tom. :) )


Everything I've seen shows Verizon supports the delay. Qualcomm on the other hand does not.
Who is this "Vod Kanockers" that you speak of?

#39 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:59 AM

My comments are:

1. Some TVs don't have a coax input. They'll also need an adapter.
2. What about VCRs? You'll also have to train people how to use their VCR in a different way. And did they buy a converter box with timers for VCR use?
3. That tiny print scrolling across the bottom of the screen can't be read by many people due to poor eyesight.
4. That tiny print scrolling across the bottom of the screen can't be read by many people because while they may understand conversational English, they have no idea what many of the words in the scroll mean.
5. That tiny print scrolling across the bottom of the screen can't be read by many people because while English is their only language, they have no idea what many of the words in the scroll mean.
6. Some people's most complex electronic device is the TV. The toaster is the next most complex electronic device they own. My Grandma has never owned or driven a car, doesn't own a VCR or microwave, and doesn't even own a toaster. For her, the bedside clock is the next most complex device she owns. And she can't set the time on it.
7. Some people may need new antennas. Their old antennas may be fine now, but they may need new antennas on the cutoff date. They may now need to be installed outdoors. In the middle of winter.
8. Some broadcasters may need more time. My digital signals go out all day once a week on my FOX and CBS affiliates.
9. Some people are physically unable to install the new box due to medical issues.
10. The message of "perform a rescan on Feb. 17" isn't getting out to anybody. In many areas, rescans will have to be performed. I think this would cut down on a lot of the phone calls.

I also know of at least 12 people who still do not understand the analog shutdown is taking place. I've tried explaining it to them, and they just don't get it. And only four of them have cable.


Excellent reminders to those of use that don't have any problems crawling in attics, wiring up complex telco and TV infrastructures. :)

Funny sidebar. When I met my wife 25 years ago, I was the most technically advanced person she knew, definitely loved the tech toys. (And still do obviously)

Yet, on my headboard was a wind-up baby bell clock. When asked why I didn't have a digital clock, I had a simple answer: wind up clocks still work when the power goes out. Since I had to set an alarm every day anyway, I'd rather be sure it would work. :)

Now I don't care if the alarm goes off after power outages, clocks have battery backups, and I have several clocks that set their time to WWV anyway. So I'm back as a tech toymaster. :)

Cheers,
Tom

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#40 OFFLINE   Pepster

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:12 AM

Senate Passes Second Bill Changing DTV Transition Date
Bill expected to be sent to the House for consideration under regular rules
John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/29/2009 5:26:03 PM MT



Quoting one of my favorite americans, the great Dick Dastardly, drat, drat & double drat.

Can we end this already. No matter what the date is, SOME PEOPLE won't be ready.

#41 OFFLINE   ThomasM

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:31 AM

Eh, Who cares.... Not a big problem for anyone on this forum... Is anyone going to die or even loose sleep if your analog chanel stays lit longer? Like I've said before all your locals should be digitial aswell by now.....


It IS a problem for a lot of knowledgeable people who have upgraded to OTA DTV because many stations are running reduced digital output power or a lower, inferior antenna until space on the top of their tower (now occupied by the analog antenna) can be cleared and the digital transmission antenna moved/upgraded.

This is also causing periodic pixelation of the DirecTV LIL feeds so EVERYONE is affected. :mad:

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#42 ONLINE   loudo

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:38 AM

People have know about this for 4 years. The few remaining procrastinators will not be ready in June, anymore than they are ready today. Some people just don't move until they have to.

Could this Delay Act be over the rights as to who gets the frequencies, once they are released, and have nothing to do with the concern of a small minority of procrastinators, who are not ready?
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#43 OFFLINE   SEAKevin

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:40 AM

I have a question that probably has been answered on here in some thread about this topic that I haven't read...

When the official transition occurs will all stations simply shut off their analog signals?

Or will there be a period of days or weeks where stations will discontinue all analog programming but broadcast a mandatory message (in analog) that explains to the viewer they will no longer get programs unless they get a converter box, and offer a phone number or something where they can call for more info?

#44 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:44 AM

Could this Delay Act be over the rights as to who gets the frequencies, once they are released...

My understanding is that the frequencies are already "sold", so any delay in the transition may result in another missed delivery date of promised bandwidth.

#45 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:48 AM

When the official transition occurs will all stations simply shut off their analog signals?

It is somewhat up to the station. I think it likely that they will shut off their main analog feeds. The confusing part of the DTV transition is that some of the rural translators and low power stations will continue to operate in analog mode as allowed for a certain period after the transition. I'm not sure if the Nielsen surveys took this into account but I'm betting that they didn't.

#46 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:51 AM

Senate Passes Second Bill Changing DTV Transition Date
Bill expected to be sent to the House for consideration under regular rules
John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/29/2009 5:26:03 PM MT



Quoting one of my favorite americans, the great Dick Dastardly, drat, drat & double drat.

Can we end this already. No matter what the date is, SOME PEOPLE won't be ready.


Yeah...

But then it seems like the Senate sarcastically snickers like Dastardly's sidekick henchman dog "Muttley" in response and just ignores us on this issue and simply continues pushing for the DTV delay. :D

#47 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:52 AM

Eh, Who cares.... Not a big problem for anyone on this forum... Is anyone going to die or even loose sleep if your analog chanel stays lit longer? Like I've said before all your locals should be digitial aswell by now.....


Why is that. Not all of us have locals from our provider. Not all OTA is digital so I dont understand your comment.

#48 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:55 AM

Here's the text of the legislation .. again, passed by "unanimous consent" as James pointed out which basically means no one objected to it being passed. I don't believe there was a real vote.

Also, it is very clear in the text that if a broadcaster doesn't want to delay, then they don't have to. They simply have to follow the current rules in effect by the FCC. Any broadcaster that does delay is doing so for his/her own reasons.

At this point, I don't care if it is extended or not .. everyone has a choice in the matter. Now if every broadcaster decides to switch, this Bill (soon to be Law) simply become moot.
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#49 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:59 AM

It is somewhat up to the station. I think it likely that they will shut off their main analog feeds. The confusing part of the DTV transition is that some of the rural translators and low power stations will continue to operate in analog mode as allowed for a certain period after the transition. I'm not sure if the Nielsen surveys took this into account but I'm betting that they didn't.


You bring up a very interesting point .. I don't think that the new Bill addresses this secondary cut off at all. I have not looked at the text of the original bill (S.352 is an amendment to the "Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005" and the "Communications Act of 1934").

Is is possible that the low power stations will have to still adhere to that original date which will be earlier than June 12? What I don't know is if the low-power rule is an FCC thing vs. a legislative thing.
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#50 OFFLINE   Mark Holtz

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:09 AM

When I checked SFGate, SacBee, KCRA, KXTV, and KOVR news sites, no mention of this new bill. Hmmmm.... gotta check NY Times and LA Times.

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