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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Wireless router, local network segmented?


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15 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 06:44 PM

Ok... so I finally got a wireless router.

Config was reasonably smooth. My iMac is now working wireless (instead of ethernet over power lines)... and I'm typing on the internet right now! :)

My wired computers in the room with the router are also happily still on the internet as before.

BUT... now I can't see my computer on the wired connection with my wireless iMac.

I am sharing folders on my Windows XP computer, did create a guest account, and was able to share files as configured with my wired-only router. IF I put that back into the mix and go ethernet to my iMac, all play well.

Basically, what it appears like is that my wireless router is segmenting my local network... and even though I am on one continuous subnet with consecutive DHCP addresses... I cannot even ping from my wireless to my wired or vice-versa. Either computer can, however, connect to the router via web-interface for config.

I'm basically stumped as to why computer-to-computer communications on the local network are being prevented by the router... and it appears as though the router is the culprit since my old router will allow it.

Any ideas?

-- My cat's breath smells like cat food.


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#2 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 11:02 AM

You've got a router behind a router.. That's (segmenting) exactly how it's supposed to work..
Can you plug everything into the new router?

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#3 OFFLINE   408SJC

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 11:45 AM

It sounds like he is connected to one router. I have had a simliar problem that I have not been able to fix except to run everything over ethernet. (My only two wireless computers actually will share files and can see over the network). My problem was that I have a playon server on a wireless desktop, the playon service would work on my ps3 via wireless but not on my hr20 which is wired cat6. I ran cat6 to both the ps3 and the playon server computer and everything has worked seemlessly. the ps3 was a little choppy with wireless but with a wired connection it is so much better.

so I had everything over one router all dhcp, all can see the internet, all (computers) could configure the router via the web interface, but similar to the op I was unable to get the wired and wireless devices to communicate correctly.

#4 OFFLINE   408SJC

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 11:48 AM

btw a previous wireless g router did work, but I too had changed routers to a n+ and that is when it stopped communicating correctly. so it may in fact be the router. anybody have any suggestions besides going back to the old router. since everything works for me with cat6 wired, Im now just curious and maybe we can help the op

#5 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 11:50 AM

We need to know exactly what devices are connected, and how, but, yes, it sounds like there are two routers on the network, and if that's the case, it doesn't matter if the IP addresses are in the same range, it still won't work. Either you needed to add a wireless access point (instead of a wireless router) to your original router, or you need to move all the computers to the new router.

#6 OFFLINE   408SJC

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 12:02 PM

I found my situation to be weird, but I had extra cat6 and actually had planned on getting my playon server computer wired it was no biggie for me to just run some more wire around the house, I didn't press on fixing the wireless communication issue. I had changed routers because of a new laptop and wanted a faster connection on it.

so if the op has two routers then ok, but if he only has one what would stop it from communicating correclty

#7 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 12:55 PM

There are not 2 routers on my network.

I actually have 3 routers that I *could* use... but only one of them is a wireless one.

If I use either of my wired-only routers, then all computers connected through ethernet will share files without problems.

However, using the wireless router... only wired-ethernet computers see each other. My wireless computer only sees the internet.

I have a wired computer at x.x.x.101 and a wireless at x.x.x.102 and while both see the internet happily, neither will see each other.

It's clearly a router issue... but I see nothing about the router internal configuration that filters or segments the wireless from the wired... and yet, clearly it is doing so internally.

-- My cat's breath smells like cat food.


#8 OFFLINE   deltafowler

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 05:43 PM

There's no need to type x's for your private IP addresses. There's no security issue involved in disclosing the entire address.

Does the wireless computer get the same IP settings via wireless as it does via Ethernet?

Try pinging one computer from the other using the IP address and then by name.
If they will ping, then they can see each other, and it's simply a matter of tweaking something like perhaps some firewall settings on either the PC or the router.

FYI - You may still have two routers. If you have a modern DSL or cable modem, many have routing functions built in, with DHCP servers, even though they have only one Ethernet port.

#9 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:09 PM

There's no need to type x's for your private IP addresses. There's no security issue involved in disclosing the entire address.


I know, but typing three x's was a whole lot faster than typing the actual whole IP! :)

Does the wireless computer get the same IP settings via wireless as it does via Ethernet?


It can, and as it turns out it doesn't matter.

Try pinging one computer from the other using the IP address and then by name.
If they will ping, then they can see each other, and it's simply a matter of tweaking something like perhaps some firewall settings on either the PC or the router.


That's what I said in my original post... I can't ping from the wireless to any of the wired computers. I have a wired desktop and laptop and they can see each other. With my old wired-only router everything saw each other... but now with the wireless router replacing that, my computer that has wireless can no longer see any other computer on the network. That's what I'm trying to resolve, and there is nothing in the router config that indicates this should be a problem.

FYI - You may still have two routers. If you have a modern DSL or cable modem, many have routing functions built in, with DHCP servers, even though they have only one Ethernet port.


I know... and long ago that was the first thing I disabled on my DSL modem. In fact, I don't even let my DSL modem login... My router logs in to my ISP and is my only DHCP server on the network.

-- My cat's breath smells like cat food.


#10 OFFLINE   deltafowler

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:41 PM

It can?
It either does or it doesn't.

If you connect via cable and connect via wireless, is the computer receiving the same IP address, DNS, and gateway?

Can you ping by both IP and by name?

Is there any firewall software running on the PC?

#11 OFFLINE   elaclair

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 09:42 AM

One thing to check. See if your wireless computers are getting a different sub-net mask than your wired systems. Try giving them BOTH 255.255.255.0 and see if that helps. Even though your two test systems are only address apart, if they're masked wrong they won't see each other.

What router are you using?

#12 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 02:47 PM

It can?
It either does or it doesn't.

If you connect via cable and connect via wireless, is the computer receiving the same IP address, DNS, and gateway?

Can you ping by both IP and by name?

Is there any firewall software running on the PC?


I've let my wireless computer get the same IP as it did when it was connected via ethernet... and I've let it get a different IP. All on the same subnet, and it does not matter at all what IP it gets.

I don't connect simultaneously via wireless and ethernet with the same computer. When I connect via ethernet I disable the wireless to avoid the possibility of not knowing which connection is the one working.

And as I've said a couple of times now... I can't ping via name or via IP address when the computer is connected via wireless. When I connect it wired ethernet then I can ping via name or IP. It works when wired, but not when wireless.

There is no firewall software running on the PC... and as I was saying, everything works if all computers are wired ethernet. It just doesn't seem to work when a computer is on the wireless.. The wireless computer can only see the gateway/router and the Internet but not other local internal network computers.

-- My cat's breath smells like cat food.


#13 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 02:49 PM

One thing to check. See if your wireless computers are getting a different sub-net mask than your wired systems. Try giving them BOTH 255.255.255.0 and see if that helps. Even though your two test systems are only address apart, if they're masked wrong they won't see each other.

What router are you using?


All of the computers (wired and wireless) are getting the same subnet mask 255.255.255.0, but that was a good thing to check. My router is a TrendNet TEW-632BRP.

-- My cat's breath smells like cat food.


#14 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 01:10 AM

Is there any firewall software running on the PC?


I now have to eat my words...

Turns out there was firewall software running, but there wasn't supposed to be.

Turns out that if you install Norton 360 on a system, it automatically enables sharing over the network through that router by MAC address... so if you turn off the firewall and it later gets turned back on you will not know the difference.

But... if you then swap to a different router, that router is NOT automatically shared... Norton doesn't tell you that it isn't shared... and no errors get logged even though communication is being blocked if the firewall gets turned back on without your knowledge.

I found all this out tonight when my Norton Antivirus stopped getting Live Updates for some reason. I had to re-install part of things and do a shut down/reboot... and then I discovered the firewall function was on and was blocking my router after all.

So long story short... It was my PC's fault... and Norton... and I'd never have figured out the firewall was back on if another part of Norton hadn't locked up on me!

Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions.

-- My cat's breath smells like cat food.


#15 OFFLINE   deltafowler

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 06:34 AM

Glad you got it sorted out.
Norton's is famous for blocking local traffic.
The best thing I've found to do with all Norton branded software is to uninstall it and incinerate the disks.

You truly don't need a software firewall when you have a properly configured PC behind a broadband router.

#16 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 02:58 PM

Glad you got it sorted out.
Norton's is famous for blocking local traffic.
The best thing I've found to do with all Norton branded software is to uninstall it and incinerate the disks.

You truly don't need a software firewall when you have a properly configured PC behind a broadband router.


I thought I had disabled it too... but turns out I may or may not have (or it turned itself back on).. I know I never originally configured it, so it could only have worked if it automatically shared previously.

Fortunately LiveUpdate fails every once in a while with the Norton stuff and I have to go into debug mode to get that working again... and find out the rest of the problems :)

I'm mainly happy to once again see my PC! As I start to do more work on my iMac I still need access to my old data on the PC, and memory sticks are cool but not nearly as convenient as sharing across the network.

-- My cat's breath smells like cat food.





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