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Audyssey - Setup Problems


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6 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   kfcrosby

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:08 AM

I finally ran the Audyssey setup on my Marantz SR8002 this past weekend and I must say I was less than impressed with the results. I felt like I was sitting between two midrange horns with no bass or good clear top end. I've done enough professional studio installations to know what a properly setup room/eq sounds like and this is definitely not it.

I ran the setup and did 6 locations. It hit all of the 6 channels and I did discover a problem with one of my midrange drivers, which I corrected and re-ran the setup again.

I am looking for some observations/suggestions here.

Setup is ADS1530's for the mains, a Polk Audio CSi-A6 Center Speaker, Polk TSi100 rear surrounds and a JBL P12SW Sub.

Kevin Crosby
Memphis, TN
DirecTV subscriber since 1996


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#2 OFFLINE   smiddy

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:33 AM

My experience is with two Denon units, AVR-3806 and AVR-5805. The AVR-3806 has Polk Audio in wall speakers with a Polk Audio sub (not in wall); this is in my Living Room 7.1. The AVR-5805 has Axiom speakers, floor standing Left and Right, wall mounted Center, wall mounted Surround Left & Right, and ceiling mounted Surround Back Left & Right, and a floor standing sub; this is in my Theater/Game Room. On both of these units I have done a minimum of 6 locations. I just started using it recently, I had gotten accustomed to the flat response I suspect, but once I did the setup, I noticed better seperation or location of audio tracks, with fuller representation of vocals. I used Transformers Blu Ray to test, since the very begining (5.1 BTW) has a clear mix for seperating out each channel around the room, and it seemed to be much fuller and pronounced. All of this is perception on my part, not technical objectivity, which is something you may have a better grasp of than me. I have no way to monitor this anyhow.

So to poke, since I have a different manufacturer, there may be subtle differences. Did the receiver calculate the correct distances and phases for all channels? Are you savy enough to adjust that to your liking, since you can adjust and save those setting to, at least that is my understanding, I haven't tried mind you. Can you provide screen shots?

Edited by smiddy, 25 March 2009 - 08:39 AM.

Aaron 'smiddy' Smith

#3 OFFLINE   kfcrosby

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:55 AM

The distances are correct, the time domain settings are better but the audio quality itself is just plain poor. I have access to a B&K reference mic as well as an older AKG 451 omni but I wonder if that mic that is supplied for the Audyssey is truly a flay response.

I have the Allen & Heath RTA Software for the laptop, so my next step is to run that. Just takes time and coordination to get everyone else out of the house and the dogs asleep :)

Kevin Crosby
Memphis, TN
DirecTV subscriber since 1996


#4 OFFLINE   audyssey

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 12:25 AM

I finally ran the Audyssey setup on my Marantz SR8002 this past weekend and I must say I was less than impressed with the results. I felt like I was sitting between two midrange horns with no bass or good clear top end. I've done enough professional studio installations to know what a properly setup room/eq sounds like and this is definitely not it.

I ran the setup and did 6 locations. It hit all of the 6 channels and I did discover a problem with one of my midrange drivers, which I corrected and re-ran the setup again.

I am looking for some observations/suggestions here.

Setup is ADS1530's for the mains, a Polk Audio CSi-A6 Center Speaker, Polk TSi100 rear surrounds and a JBL P12SW Sub.


Hi Kevin,

I thought I would jump in here and try to help figure out what might be wrong. Some possible reasons for what you are hearing are:

1) Marantz (not Audyssey) decides on when to set speakers to Large or Small. In your product, they use 80 Hz as the criterion. That means that if your speakers are set to Large no content below 80 Hz will be sent to the sub. We have pushed all of our licensees to change this and most have moved to 40 Hz for that decision. But, the model you have still uses 80 Hz so this is one possibility to check. Simply go to the setup menu and manually change the speaker setting to Small.

2) Measurement locations are often confused with seating locations. This leads people to put the mic in seats that are far from the center of the listening area (e.g., near side walls). The natural drop-off in high frequencies that tweeters have off axis will cause MultEQ to overcorrect and boost the high frequencies more than what is needed.

The proper measurement pattern is to start in the center of your listening area. That's where the delays and levels are calculated from. Then, move the mic about 2' to the left and 2' to the right of the first position. Then move 2' forward and take three more measurements parallel to the first three. All should be at ear height with the mic on a tripod to avoid nearby reflections.

If your seating area is near the back wall, that's where most of the low frequency modes tend to bunch up. So, measuring too close to the back wall will cause MultEQ to think there is too much bass and it will cut too much. Try to stay at least 18" from the back wall even if that means biasing the measurements slightly forward of where you will be seated.

3) Depending on the sub you have it most likely has lowpass filters in it. These interfere with MultEQ and also with proper bass management. They should be turned off if possible and you should connect to an input on the sub that bypasses them (if available). If none of that is possible, then turn the frequency knob on the back of the sub to the highest frequency and leave it there even after MultEQ is finished. That function is best handled in the Marantz. Also, turn the volume knob on the sub to just below the midpoint to make sure the Marantz has enough range to adjust the sub level after calibration.

There are many other tips and Q/A on the "Official" Audyssey Thread over on the avsforum so stop by if you have further questions.
Chris Kyriakakis
Founder and CTO
Audyssey Laboratories

#5 OFFLINE   kfcrosby

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 07:07 AM

Thanks Chris, I'll give some of this a try. I did notice that the Center and the Surrounds were set to large, now I know why. I'll go back and manually correct those settings. The front mains have no problem with running all the way down so I assume there is no problem leaving the set as they are?

I actually used a 3x3 grid for the measurements, only because that what we used to do in studio environments. I did have a concern about the back wall and have considered a bass trap behind the couch, but I was 30" out and 44" off the floor using a boom mic arm with the Audyssey mic attached, so I should be ok there.

I will head over and get subscribed to the AVS section you mention.

I really appreciate you help and will post back with the results.

Kevin

Kevin Crosby
Memphis, TN
DirecTV subscriber since 1996


#6 OFFLINE   audyssey

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 09:19 AM

Thanks Chris, I'll give some of this a try. I did notice that the Center and the Surrounds were set to large, now I know why. I'll go back and manually correct those settings. The front mains have no problem with running all the way down so I assume there is no problem leaving the set as they are?

I actually used a 3x3 grid for the measurements, only because that what we used to do in studio environments. I did have a concern about the back wall and have considered a bass trap behind the couch, but I was 30" out and 44" off the floor using a boom mic arm with the Audyssey mic attached, so I should be ok there.

I will head over and get subscribed to the AVS section you mention.

I really appreciate you help and will post back with the results.

Kevin


Kevin,

The benefit of setting all speakers to small (even if they can go all the way down) is that the MultEQ filters in the subwoofer channel have 8x more resolution than the main channels. So, there is a big advantage from room correction point of view, in letting the sub do the work and give you flatter bass through MultEQ.

Let me know what you find.

Also, I want to make sure you are pointing the mic to the ceiling and not forward. It's calibrated for pressure field incidence and must be pointed up.
Chris Kyriakakis
Founder and CTO
Audyssey Laboratories

#7 OFFLINE   kfcrosby

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:23 AM

Kevin,

The benefit of setting all speakers to small (even if they can go all the way down) is that the MultEQ filters in the subwoofer channel have 8x more resolution than the main channels. So, there is a big advantage from room correction point of view, in letting the sub do the work and give you flatter bass through MultEQ.

Let me know what you find.

Also, I want to make sure you are pointing the mic to the ceiling and not forward. It's calibrated for pressure field incidence and must be pointed up.




I'll try it both ways.

Yes I have the mic pointing upwards.

I will try and get some screen captures from the RTA software of the different speaker/room/settings interface.

Again, many thanks Chris, your insight is truly invaluable!

Kevin

Kevin Crosby
Memphis, TN
DirecTV subscriber since 1996





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