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ABC O&O Locals to carry HD sub-channel?


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22 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 07:28 PM

Hard to believe the ABC owned LiL stations are going to be doing this in adding the "Live Well HD Network" as an "HD sub-channel."

http://en.wikipedia....Well_HD_Network

Schedule here:

http://livewellhd.co...ture?id=6756341

Having two 720P HD channels is going to severely the bandwidth of both and thus certainly sacrifice PQ on their main sub-channel. Wow...good luck looking at your ABC network programming and sports after 4/27/09 I guess. :nono2:

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#2 OFFLINE   jacksonm30354

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:48 PM

Hard to believe the ABC owned LiL stations are going to be doing this in adding the "Live Well HD Network" as an "HD sub-channel."

http://en.wikipedia....Well_HD_Network

Schedule here:

http://livewellhd.co...ture?id=6756341

Having two 720P HD channels is going to severely the bandwidth of both and thus certainly sacrifice PQ on their main sub-channel. Wow...good luck looking at your ABC network programming and sports after 4/27/09 I guess. :nono2:



While not the best choice as a secondry channel, I think most won't be able to tell the difference. You can squeeze a 720p stream to about 8Mbps before there's a noticeable degredation. Some people's eyes are more senstative to others and will be able to tell, but for the average person, they probably won't be able to tell much difference.

That said, what is carried on cable/satellite, might not have the same compression unless it's picked up from OTA.

#3 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 09:57 PM

While not the best choice as a secondry channel, I think most won't be able to tell the difference. You can squeeze a 720p stream to about 8Mbps before there's a noticeable degredation. Some people's eyes are more senstative to others and will be able to tell, but for the average person, they probably won't be able to tell much difference.

That said, what is carried on cable/satellite, might not have the same compression unless it's picked up from OTA.


Well....

If this is true then the early results from ABC O&O local WTVD in Raleigh-Durham, N.C. trying to broadcast two 720P HD sub-channels does not look promising according to this reporter.

http://www.avsforum....35#post16343035.

My local ABC O&O station here in Los Angeles, KABC, is scheduled to move to this format on the 27th. I can hardly wait...:rolleyes:

#4 OFFLINE   GP245

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 04:55 AM

The Mouse House has done it already here in the New York DMA.

Many have reported a diminishing of PQ. I'll wait to view some basketball before totally damning this idiocy.

It will be interesting if I can see a difference. I can receive the station with
Direct, Cable and O-T-A.

If there is a discernable difference, then it would be wise for Direct to pick up WABC-DT via fiber optic vs. O-T-A.

What an ignorant waste of bandwidth!!!

#5 OFFLINE   dubber deux

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 03:03 PM

The Mouse House has done it already here in the New York DMA.



What an ignorant waste of bandwidth!!!


Blame it one the endless pursuit of the almightly advert dollar.

I wonder if the companies realize that anymore most people are immune to the neverending cacaphony of advertising. The worst part is that the ads are so stupid and offensive now that it actually deters many folks from buying the products.

#6 OFFLINE   jamieh1

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 08:43 PM

WTVD is airing 2 720p feeds now. Does not look bad, 2 nd feed is not as sharp as the 1st but not bad.

#7 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 09:35 PM

They dont have to split the bandwidth 50/50, they could compress the hell out of the subchannel.
We temporarily had a 1080i and a 720p AND a 480i all on one transmitter. It was quite noticable, but the 480i channel was almost totally unwatchable because they compressed it to oblivion to reduce as much as possible, the degrading of the 1080i channel. They eventually went with two 720p and a 480i, and that improved things a little.

#8 OFFLINE   Tom Servo

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 02:45 AM

I don't see why the subchannel can't be 16:9 480i or 480p - isn't that possible with the ATSC standard? It'd still be widescreen but not HD.

Having two HD subchannels can't possibly look good. In Mississippi the PBS stations all run at least two SD subchannels and one HD subchannel and none of them look worth a darn. The SD is dull and fuzzy and the HD macroblocks with the absolute slightest motion.

#9 OFFLINE   GP245

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 06:33 AM

Watched ABC basketball over the weekend.

Was looking for differences in PQ among three different feeds, now that my primary WABC-DT channel is giving up bits and bytes to the HD sub-channel.

Compared - DirecTV local; O-T-A and Time Warner Cable feeds.

On my 37" LCD - really could not perceive a difference.

I would imagine that those with larger screens will see a lessening of quality.

Since the ABC owned stations are and will adopt this practice, it becomes important for Direct to capture local signals not via O-T-A but with fiber connections to the stations to assure the greatest quality available.

#10 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 11:55 AM

Hey folks;

I don't know how you may be perceiving KABC-DT during the NBA play-offs at the moment with Miami at Atlanta, and I realize there is always going to be some degree of subjectivism in these personal assessments, but the PQ looks poor to me right now as the fast moving shots of the basketball action really allow me to see the artifacts caused by the bandwidth limitations of having two 720P stations (and one SD one).

Particularly annoying is the increased noise ("mosquito noise" is it called?) and shimmering I notice now around smaller objects in the scenes. For instance the people in the audience, the stairwells and railings, the basketball backboard and supporting stanchion, the lettering around the home teams' name at each end of the court, the lines of the basketball court etc., every time the camera quickly moves to cover a shot. :mad:

To be honest this looks a lot like just an HD version of DirecTV's SD telecast now which had all these same characteristics.

And BTW the DirecTV HD feed seems even worse than the off-air one from the AM21.

#11 OFFLINE   tftc22

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 12:38 PM

While not the best choice as a secondry channel, I think most won't be able to tell the difference. You can squeeze a 720p stream to about 8Mbps before there's a noticeable degredation.

I don't even have HD yet, but I tried to do some research and here's what I found. An OTA channel has a max 19.44Mbps of bandwidth, which would be 9.72Mbps for each channel if they decide to have 2 HD channels. You said a signal can get down to 8Mbps without much noticeable difference. From what I can tell from sources online, that seems to be true for MPEG4, but is that also true for OTA stations, which are limited to MPEG2?

Also, in what I think is an interesting side note, it seems that a few countries are using (or plan to use) MPEG4 for OTA broadcasts.

#12 OFFLINE   raoul5788

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 12:56 PM

If there is a discernable difference, then it would be wise for Direct to pick up WABC-DT via fiber optic vs. O-T-A.


Isn't that how Directv picks up the signal already, by fiber?

#13 OFFLINE   Tom Servo

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 01:04 PM

Isn't that how Directv picks up the signal already, by fiber?

I thought most DirecTV markets pick up via OTA for SD and HD?

I'm pretty sure the Birmingham, AL market is all OTA except for the ABC affiliate, which is delivered via fiber because their two transmitter sites are out in the boonies.

#14 OFFLINE   Wisegoat

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 08:40 AM

Hey folks;

I don't know how you may be perceiving KABC-DT during the NBA play-offs at the moment with Miami at Atlanta, and I realize there is always going to be some degree of subjectivism in these personal assessments, but the PQ looks poor to me right now as the fast moving shots of the basketball action really allow me to see the artifacts caused by the bandwidth limitations of having two 720P stations (and one SD one).

Particularly annoying is the increased noise ("mosquito noise" is it called?) and shimmering I notice now around smaller objects in the scenes. For instance the people in the audience, the stairwells and railings, the basketball backboard and supporting stanchion, the lettering around the home teams' name at each end of the court, the lines of the basketball court etc., every time the camera quickly moves to cover a shot. :mad:

To be honest this looks a lot like just an HD version of DirecTV's SD telecast now which had all these same characteristics.

And BTW the DirecTV HD feed seems even worse than the off-air one from the AM21.


Couldn't agree with you more. KABC looks like doo-doo now. Horrible pixelization on any degree of camera movement. Colors are not as sharp and there is a very "flat" look to everything. None of that richness in color or field depth that made you feel like you were there.

Anyone know of anybody at ABC to whom we can direct our ire? We need to nip this horrible idea in the bud, like we mostly have done for stretch-o-vision, before it spreads like a virus. ABC used to have the best HD sports picture, in my opinion, and now I am saddened that I will have to watch the Lakers win another championship while watching this awful picture.

#15 OFFLINE   aa9vi

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 10:13 AM

WLS in Chicago looks like crap too. Many of us have written to WLS and voiced our stong opinions on the matter. For the most part, we are getting a "this is a new venture, give it a chance before disparaging it, and we're working on it" response.

Yeah, what are they working on? A substandard ABC feed?

Hey ABC: 720p for the secondary channel isn't working. How about 480i/p widescreen?

#16 OFFLINE   pdawg17

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 10:32 PM

KGO in the SF Bay Area is now absolute garbage...my wife was watching Desperate Housewives last night and I happened to glance over from the kitchen...I seriously thought my tv was dying...the picture was soft and there was no detail at all...one of the actors had a pin-striped suit on and you had to squint to see it...

Then tonight I'm watching a "live" show DWTS which should show off HD and it also looks horrific...dark and soft PQ...it looks like a 300mb divx I might pull from a torrent and stream through my Xbox 360...

If it weren't for Lost I would boycott the channel completely...the Lost finale will be great but will piss me off at the same time...hopefully between then and Season 6 they will push some of that bandwidth back to the main subchannel...
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#17 OFFLINE   Wisegoat

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 07:21 PM

Anybody else watching the Laker game tonight think that ABC's picture looks like doggy doo-doo? All of the colors are flat, faces are blurry and motion is heavily pixelated.

You would think that they would turn that worthless subchannel off, at least during primetime and the NBA Finals!

ABC - Get rid of this waste of bandwidth! You used to have the best HD picture of all the networks. Now it is clearly the worst! I would rather watch stretch-o-vision than this garbage (and I hate stretch-o-vision).

#18 OFFLINE   KSbugeater

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 10:22 AM

I am saddened that I will have to watch the Lakers win another championship while watching this awful picture.


I, too, am saddened that I have to watch the Lakers win another championship.

I had picture quality issues, too, but it had more to do with DirecTV's MPEG4 compression than a subchannel. After complete scene changes, many times the picture is blurred and takes several seconds to come into focus. I think it takes a while for the compression algorithm to "catch up" than with subtle changes.

#19 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 04:16 PM

WLS in Chicago looks like crap too. Many of us have written to WLS and voiced our stong opinions on the matter. For the most part, we are getting a "this is a new venture, give it a chance before disparaging it, and we're working on it" response.

Yeah, what are they working on? A substandard ABC feed?

Hey ABC: 720p for the secondary channel isn't working. How about 480i/p widescreen?

maybe they should drop ABC News Now to get more space or wait that is what sub channels should be for not 2 HD lite channels + 1 sd.

#20 OFFLINE   CKNAV

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 09:01 PM

I, too, am saddened that I have to watch the Lakers win another championship.

I had picture quality issues, too, but it had more to do with DirecTV's MPEG4 compression than a subchannel. After complete scene changes, many times the picture is blurred and takes several seconds to come into focus. I think it takes a while for the compression algorithm to "catch up" than with subtle changes.


It is not D* Mpeg4. What you see is a problem with your station that uses Harris Mpeg2 encoder. There is a setting that has to be changed to manual as it comes set to auto. This casues picture going out of focus.
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