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Older Receivers Disabled


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19 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   wdingus

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 10:13 AM

A model 5000 receiver I still have setup for my parents lost most all channels today. They've been using it since well before locals were available via Dish in this area. It works, they're comfortable with it, I've been reluctant to make any changes. Looks like Dish has forced the issue though, it only receives a few channels now with "This is a subscription channel which has not been purchased" displayed on most. I called the 800# and was told they just went through and disabled a lot of receivers for similar reasons. Said they were switching to MPEG4 and this was an MPEG2 receiver and would no longer work. I've not been staying on top of current Dish news, are they indeed making a wholesale switch to MPEG4? So other receivers like my PVR508 will cease working at some point too then? I'm ready to make a total switch to HD which I'm sure is mostly if not entirely MPEG4. Just want to be sure I'll have to upgrade *all* my receivers or will any still work for the foreseeable future on secondary TVs or not.

PS. Any words of wisdom on getting more for less? The CSR offered me a free upgrade to some low-end equipment in exchange for the 5000. I've been a (just shy of the everything package) subscriber for 10+ years.

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#2 OFFLINE   boba

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 11:07 AM

Lies Lies Lies Mpeg2 will eventually be discontinued but the current changes are just receivers DISH no longer wishes to support.

#3 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 11:24 AM

Yes, E* is moving away from MPEG2 to MPEG4. Sooner or later all of the older receivers will stop working as E* completes the transition. Or at least that has been the trend.

My experience has been dissapointing in that I purchased a brand new MPEG2 HD machine only to see it go obsolete in a matter of weeks. Of course, E* offered a pennies-on-the-dollar consolation, but it did teach me that the only way to protect myself from the technology encroachment is to lease.

Your situation may be different, but leasing solved a lot of compatibility and longevity issues for me. I, too, am a long time subscriber, and intend to remain one for the foreseeable future. The two-year commitment for me is not a factor.
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#4 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 11:50 AM

Just want to be sure I'll have to upgrade *all* my receivers or will any still work for the foreseeable future on secondary TVs or not.

No one outside the corporate inner offices knows the answer, but it appears to depend on a couple of things:
  • If you are in Eastern Arc territory, Dish does appear to be pushing for conversion faster.
  • If the judge in the TiVo case rules against Dish on the listed DVRs, it is possible that Dish will move to the MPEG4 much faster.

PS. Any words of wisdom on getting more for less? The CSR offered me a free upgrade to some low-end equipment in exchange for the 5000. I've been a (just shy of the everything package) subscriber for 10+ years.

Free upgrades are nice, but what "low end" equipment?

#5 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 12:20 PM

Right now moving to all MPEG4 just isn't feasible because of all the legacy SD-only customers who would have to be replaced. We are talking probably 10 million + receivers that are MPEG2 SD-only!

More likely the case here, is the move to the newer encyrption... some older receivers are not compatible with the newer smartcards, thus the need to replace the receivers.

-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#6 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 03:04 PM

I think this is not an MPEG2/MPEG4 issue, but a NAGRA2/NAGRA3 issue.

Their old receiver does not decode the new encryption with the purple smart cards and needs to be replaced with a receiver that is capable of using a purple smart card.
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#7 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 03:07 PM

Ain't technology just grand!? :sure:
VIP722kDVR (Living Room)
VIP211 (Bedroom)
VIP622DVR (Art Room)

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#8 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 09:06 PM

Yes - the issue is not MPEG2/MPEG4, but rather Nagra2 / Nagra3 related. I don't know if the model 5000 is going to be compatible with the NAGRA3. If the 5000 is not and they're offering a new receiver - go for an MPEG4 one - more future proof.

Edit - I just got a purple card for my 625 a couple weeks ago. So - MPEG2 SD is not going away too quickly...

Edited by scooper, 03 May 2009 - 09:12 PM.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

#9 OFFLINE   Raymie

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 10:11 PM

Yup...they're making the N3 cards so that they DON'T work with the receivers that they cannot or don't want to support, eg the 5000.

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#10 OFFLINE   Zero327

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 01:26 AM

Yes, it's all a conspiracy to turn off YOUR receiver. Not your neighbors, and not anyone else's, just YOURS.
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1. All is fair in love and war.
2. Nothing is absolute but death and taxes.
3. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

4. If you think the above three things shouldn't apply to you, e-mail CEO@dishnetwork.com.

#11 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 11:02 AM

Some clarification:

Dish is changing their encryption system, going from Nagravision v2 to v3. This requires that all receivers have new, 3rd-Gen (purple) smartcards and new software in the receiver to work with the new cards. Dish has been sending purple G3 cards to customers for the last 6 months or so.

BUT... a number of receivers, for various reasons, can't or aren't being updated with new software or cards. And while you may not agree, the truth is the reasons for not upgrading these receivers are good ones.

Dish is offering to lease affected customers an equivalent modern receiver with no additional fees in return for the obsolete receiver. They've been sending notices to all affected customers for 6 months or more.

Here's a great post with all the details of the Discontinued Receiver Promotion:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=140515

#12 OFFLINE   boba

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 11:56 AM

The 811 is not being replacedI have 2 with brand new purple cards and they are exactly the same receiver as the 381. I don't care what puck with a halo posted in that older thread.

#13 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 02:52 PM

The 811 is not being replacedI have 2 with brand new purple cards and they are exactly the same receiver as the 381. I don't care what puck with a halo posted in that older thread.


It is true that 381s are just re-badged 811s, but it is NOT true to say that 811s aren't being replaced. From July to December of last year, my company did over 150 swaps of 811s to 211s under the Discontinued Receiver Promotion, and we're a small company.

And the 811 can no longer get HD programming, not to mention being klunky and unreliable in general, and hated by all satellite techs.

Don't be surprised if Dish decides to deauthorize all remaining 811s in their database once they've fully converted to Nagra 3; it could well happen, despite the fact that they're essentially the same as the 381, which will continue to be supported as SD receivers.

I'm really not sure why you wouldn't take advantage of Dish's offer to upgrade you to a 211/211k. Those are much better receivers and can actually get HD.

#14 OFFLINE   puckwithahalo

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 03:29 PM

The 811 is not being replacedI have 2 with brand new purple cards and they are exactly the same receiver as the 381. I don't care what puck with a halo posted in that older thread.


Yes, they do work with the new cards. They're still on the discontinued receivers list.

Speculation : probably because they were sold or leased as HD receivers and they no longer support HD programming
The postings on this site are my own and don't represent Dish's positions, strategies, or opinions.

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#15 OFFLINE   boba

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 07:16 AM

Yes they are discontinued as HD receivers but are still supported as SD receivers without being rebranded as 381s. Why would I lease a 211 when all I want is to receive the Dallas Digital channels. I am out of the Dallas DMA so DISH can't sell them to me, but I can receive them free with OTA and the 811 does provide information.

#16 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 11:16 AM

Yes they are discontinued as HD receivers but are still supported as SD receivers without being rebranded as 381s.


The 811 is likely the only receiver on Puck's list that will continue to work at all past the Nagra 3 conversion, and that's only because of the 381, so, you have an exception to the rule.

The other receivers on the list won't be working at all.

#17 OFFLINE   wdingus

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 09:07 PM

Thanks for the info everyone. The CSR offered a model 311. Probably a fine receiver but not HD and not a DVR(?). Kind of thought my years of being a loyal customer rated higher. Maybe, maybe not. Possibly I could have pressed him and gotten more concessions. I wanted to research (ie. ask for details on a forum) the matter first though...

About a month ago my 501 which hadn't been powered on in quite a while would not work. Tried various things, hold-power-reset, remove/insert card, etc.. I ended up calling Dish and was told the card in it was old and I should have received new ones by now. In fact all 3 of my receivers had old cards and should have been upgraded by then. She promised to overnight 3 new ones. The next day I received an envelope with one card. Put it in the 501, it did not work. Called them again. The CSR at that point said the first CSR was wrong, cards were fine, I should have never been sent anything, please return it. The 501 started working with the original card (yellow). So anyway, my point? Hopefully if they're about to start a very large swap program, they have their ducks in a row more than this...

Speaking of such, when I powered up the 508 today there was a message that it would cease to function on May 19th if I didn't have a new card in it by then. I'm assuming that means I'm going to be automatically receiving a package of two new cards sometime soon? For the 50x receivers and nothing for the 5000 since they've already all but turned it off.

So when is the 942(?) coming out again? Soon? I read about that from CES a few months ago and it surely looks like a contender... I realize I'd probably not get something like that for free but still hopefully it won't be too radically expensive.

Thanks again.

#18 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 09:17 PM

You won't be getting a 942 - those are being retired. As in no longer supported.
You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

#19 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 10:09 PM

So when is the 942(?) coming out again? Soon? I read about that from CES a few months ago and it surely looks like a contender... I realize I'd probably not get something like that for free but still hopefully it won't be too radically expensive.

Thanks again.


You're probably thinking of the ViP922 Duo SlingLoaded DVR... the last "word" anyone has heard was June or July I think... but there really hasn't been any new info since CES so not sure where things stand OR if there will be a large quantity available if people pile on trying to get it.

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#20 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 01:40 PM

Thanks for the info everyone. The CSR offered a model 311. Probably a fine receiver but not HD and not a DVR(?). Kind of thought my years of being a loyal customer rated higher. Maybe, maybe not. Possibly I could have pressed him and gotten more concessions.


If you look at the link I posted earlier, you'll see which receivers will replace the discontinued receivers at no charge. CSRs have NO leeway on that. Moving to any other receiver is treated like a normal lease upgrade, and comes with any extra fees and commitments that any other lease upgrade would bring.




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