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5.1 hardware setup with mutiple pieces for best perfromance


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22 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Datagg

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 01:56 AM

Hello, new here ..i found this place by looking for some answers. Looks like a great place.

Ok, over the last few days i added some new equipment to my entertainment system. A PS3 and a new receiver from yamaha, the RX-v465 for 5.1. Today i just had Dish come out and set me up with a VIP612.

Ok, here is my question and how i have things setup and if it is right.

The VIP612 is hooked up via HDMI to HDMI 2 (in) port on receiver
The PS3 also has a HDMI going into the Receiver to the HDMI 1 (in, listed as Blue ray)
And the OUT HDMI from receiver going to the Mitsubishi 65" flat screen.

So all my stuff is ignited when i press HDM1 o HDMI2 on the remote. Sounds good, yet is it right for what im doing. The gentlemen who hooked up the system today, said im not getting true 5.1 cause im not using optical line.

Yet, it clearly states in the Yamaha manual, HDMI is for video and digital audio. So, im confused. Should i be using Optical out for the Dish box and optical out for the PS3 into the Yamaha receiver?

If so, then ill have to grab a think some kind of optical a/b switch as I believe the Yamaha receiver only has 1 optical inline.

Also, assuming the setup i am using now is right, what should the Dish box be set to in the setup area. RF mode, or line mode. Right now its set Dolby Digital/PCM with RF mode

Anyways, if any of you could help me here. I spent allot on this setup and I want to make sure its working the best it can be.

Thanks for reading..... And thanks in advance for your help.

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#2 OFFLINE   dave29

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 07:29 AM

The only reason you would need to use the optical is if the HDMI ports were pass thru's. Meaning that they do not support audio. Sounds like that guy doesn't know what he is doing.

#3 OFFLINE   Datagg

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 12:19 PM

The only reason you would need to use the optical is if the HDMI ports were pass thru's. Meaning that they do not support audio. Sounds like that guy doesn't know what he is doing.


Thank you Dave. He also mentioned I shouldn't run my Dish box HDMI to the receiver for video as it is being degraded and that i should go directly to the tv. Should i do that?

Also, as I was going through the sat box, I noticed in the setup it was set for Dolby Digital/PCM and RF out. This ok.

Again thank you for the help my friend.... I tried to show him the receivers manuall to show they say HDMi does it all, yet he would have nothing to do with it. Made me feel like im kinda, well Mis-Informed and my setup I did was all wrong and im enjoying a seriously flawed setup...

Yikes...

#4 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 01:12 PM

Once again, this guy didn't know what he was talking about. Sounds to me that you did the right thing.

Charlie
--------------------

Family Room: Samsung UN60F7100 60" LED 3D TV; Samsung  BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray DVD player; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVo Roamio Plus DVR, Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player.
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


#5 OFFLINE   Datagg

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 01:27 PM

Thanks Guys....

#6 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 10:32 PM

Well, not to throw a wrinkle into the thread, but it's possible that you'd be better off sending HDMI from your VIP612 straight to the display and optical only to the receiver.

It all depends on what piece of equipment does the best upconversion of the signal. For example, right now you have the HDMI from your VIP612 going to the receiver. So, depending on the channel, it's sending a 1080i or 720p or 480 signal to the receiver. The receiver is then processing that to 1080p to send to the display (unless that particular receiver has direct pass through). Then the receiver is sending that 1080p signal to the TV. It's possible that your display might do a better job converting to 1080p, in which case you'd want to run HDMI directly to it and bypass the receiver.

You might want to try both ways and see what looks best to you (and if you can't tell a difference, stick with HDMI as it's simpler and you can let the receiver do all the switching).

Regardless, I'd probably stick with HDMI to the receiver from the PS3 because that will allow you to have the PS3 decode lossless audio and send it to the receiver. Lossless audio won't work via optical.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#7 OFFLINE   Datagg

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:49 AM

Well, not to throw a wrinkle into the thread, but it's possible that you'd be better off sending HDMI from your VIP612 straight to the display and optical only to the receiver.

It all depends on what piece of equipment does the best upconversion of the signal. For example, right now you have the HDMI from your VIP612 going to the receiver. So, depending on the channel, it's sending a 1080i or 720p or 480 signal to the receiver. The receiver is then processing that to 1080p to send to the display (unless that particular receiver has direct pass through). Then the receiver is sending that 1080p signal to the TV. It's possible that your display might do a better job converting to 1080p, in which case you'd want to run HDMI directly to it and bypass the receiver.

You might want to try both ways and see what looks best to you (and if you can't tell a difference, stick with HDMI as it's simpler and you can let the receiver do all the switching).

Regardless, I'd probably stick with HDMI to the receiver from the PS3 because that will allow you to have the PS3 decode lossless audio and send it to the receiver. Lossless audio won't work via optical.


I do know, that my Mitsubishi when i switch from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2 on the remote, the Mitsubishi always shows the format it is in. Like, i know the VIP612 is set for 1080 output and when going to input 2(satellite) the screen shows 1080. So at that point it would seem the receiver is letting the signal go through correctly, right? or are you saying , it may be getting degraded some, like the internet going through to many adapters fior example and some loss is there?

If you stlll think so, ill grab an optical and go direct into TV and see what happens.

#8 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:16 AM

I do know, that my Mitsubishi when i switch from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2 on the remote, the Mitsubishi always shows the format it is in. Like, i know the VIP612 is set for 1080 output and when going to input 2(satellite) the screen shows 1080. So at that point it would seem the receiver is letting the signal go through correctly, right? or are you saying , it may be getting degraded some, like the internet going through to many adapters fior example and some loss is there?

If you stlll think so, ill grab an optical and go direct into TV and see what happens.


The VIP612 is probably set for 1080i. Is it coming out of the receiver at 1080i, or 1080p?

Additionally, you might be better off just setting your VIP612 to Native (assuming it has that feature) and not forcing any resolution. If you have the VIP612 set to 1080i, then it will be taking every other signal (i.e. 720p) and converting it to 1080i. Then either your receiver or your display is taking that 1080i signal and converting it to 1080p. You might be better off sending the native signal straight to the Mits and having it convert it to 1080p. Every piece of equipment converts signals differently (some good, some bad), so I always recommend testing all the possibilities and seeing which one looks the best.

If they all look equal, go with the easiest (least amount of cables) set up.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
Directv customer since 2000

#9 OFFLINE   Datagg

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:31 AM

The VIP612 is probably set for 1080i. Is it coming out of the receiver at 1080i, or 1080p?

Yes, when I change the receiver from say PS3(HDMI1) to VIP612(HDMI2), the Mitsubishi screen resets and when it comes back on it says 1080I

If I go to the PS3(HDMI1) the tv screen resets again and says 1080P

so I don't know if that's right or not. The VIP612 is set to output 1080 I only as that was what he set up and I double checked in the settings just to be sure.


Additionally, you might be better off just setting your VIP612 to Native (assuming it has that feature) and not forcing any resolution.

Ill have to look for that setting, i don't recall seeing that one... But i do recall what a pain in the arse it was when I had direct TV and every channel took like 5-10 seconds to tune in.. This set up is like 2 seconds at most.

If you have the VIP612 set to 1080i, then it will be taking every other signal (i.e. 720p) and converting it to 1080i. Then either your receiver or your display is taking that 1080i signal and converting it to 1080p. You might be better off sending the native signal straight to the Mits and having it convert it to 1080p.

So your saying, go from VIP612 and take the HDMI and plug into the Mitsubishi tv, then go optical from the VIP612 into the Yamaha receiver?

Every piece of equipment converts signals differently (some good, some bad), so I always recommend testing all the possibilities and seeing which one looks the best.

Yea im always fiddling around with things to get it the best I can get it. problem is, you can fiddle around so much you drive yourself insane and lose the insight on how it should be.

I ordered an optical line with some other stuff I needed, it should be here tomorrow. So i will try the optical into receiver and go direct to tv with hdmi and see how it looks and sounds.

If they all look equal, go with the easiest (least amount of cables) set up.

I agree on that.... My newest receiver and my PS3 replaced my 5.1 and old dvd set. Which had no HDMI's and all was rca cables etc. Both pieces were about 10 years old . what a mess.....

Thank you so much for all your help bro..... I really appreciate it....

Edited by Datagg, 18 May 2009 - 09:36 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:15 AM

I must disagree with Spartanstew about hookup of your VIP612. By all means, run HDMI from the 612 to your Yamaha receiver. Do not use optical feed for your audio. Why? Because the only way you can get the best audio (Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio) decoding of the audio is by using the HDMI input of the A/V receiver. Although the optical audio gives you Dolby Digital and DTS audio, it does not provide the new HD audio formats.

Charlie
--------------------

Family Room: Samsung UN60F7100 60" LED 3D TV; Samsung  BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray DVD player; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVo Roamio Plus DVR, Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player.
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


#11 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:33 AM

I must disagree with Spartanstew about hookup of your VIP612. By all means, run HDMI from the 612 to your Yamaha receiver. Do not use optical feed for your audio. Why? Because the only way you can get the best audio (Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio) decoding of the audio is by using the HDMI input of the A/V receiver. Although the optical audio gives you Dolby Digital and DTS audio, it does not provide the new HD audio formats.


While it's true that optical does not pass HD audio formats, no cable or satellite provider uses them and it's doubtful that they ever will. Optical will get you the exact same audio that HDMI will for everything except for Blu Ray (which is why I recommended using HDMI for the PS3). So, that being the case, the picture quality is the pertinent factor and audio for the VIP612 is irrelevant in this case.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#12 OFFLINE   Chris Blount

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:34 AM

Datagg,

Welcome to the forum!

I looked up your Yamaha and it looks like you have HDMI passthrough.

Basically, running all HDMI (from your PS3 and ViP612) will work just fine. Don't worry about running any optical lines. Degradation is not a problem since the video is getting passed through directly to your display device. The receiver is grabbing the digital audio portion of the HDMI signal and decoding it as necessary. I don't know why the guy told you that you are not getting 5.1 from HDMI. The HDMI line should have everything available on it (5.1, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, etc).

BTW, to get the high resolution audio formats to pass from your PS3 to your Yamaha, make sure your PS3's audio options are set for direct bitstream.

#13 OFFLINE   Datagg

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:53 AM

Datagg,

Welcome to the forum!

I looked up your Yamaha and it looks like you have HDMI passthrough.

Basically, running all HDMI (from your PS3 and ViP612) will work just fine. Don't worry about running any optical lines. Degradation is not a problem since the video is getting passed through directly to your display device. The receiver is grabbing the digital audio portion of the HDMI signal and decoding it as necessary. I don't know why the guy told you that you are not getting 5.1 from HDMI. The HDMI line should have everything available on it (5.1, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, etc).

BTW, to get the high resolution audio formats to pass from your PS3 to your Yamaha, make sure your PS3's audio options are set for direct bitstream.


Awesome news. Thank you Chris. And thank you so much for the welcome, You've got a great place here and im going to enjoy being part of it.

Thanks again guys....

#14 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:30 PM

The receiver is then processing that to 1080p to send to the display (unless that particular receiver has direct pass through).



I looked up your Yamaha and it looks like you have HDMI passthrough.


Good info Chris, I didn't have the time to look that up.

As Chris stated, Datagg, HDMI will work great all the way around for you. If the receiver has the option of direct pass through AND upconversion, you can try both ways via HDMI. If it's just pass through you can still check to see if you like the VIP doing upconversion or if it looks better on Native (and the Mits doing the conversion).

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
Directv customer since 2000

#15 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 05:48 PM

While it's true that optical does not pass HD audio formats, no cable or satellite provider uses them and it's doubtful that they ever will. Optical will get you the exact same audio that HDMI will for everything except for Blu Ray (which is why I recommended using HDMI for the PS3). So, that being the case, the picture quality is the pertinent factor and audio for the VIP612 is irrelevant in this case.


I have to back off a bit: One thing I did not consider is the possibility that you might at times want to watch TV without having the Yamaha turned on, using audio from the TV itself instead. In that case, it would be appropriate to connect the HDMI output of the VIP612 to one of the HDMI inputs on the TV and optical out from the VIP612 to an optical input on the Yamaha.

Charlie
--------------------

Family Room: Samsung UN60F7100 60" LED 3D TV; Samsung  BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray DVD player; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVo Roamio Plus DVR, Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player.
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


#16 OFFLINE   Datagg

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 05:53 PM

I have to back off a bit: One thing I did not consider is the possibility that you might at times want to watch TV without having the Yamaha turned on, using audio from the TV itself instead. In that case, it would be appropriate to connect the HDMI output of the VIP612 to one of the HDMI inputs on the TV and optical out from the VIP612 to an optical input on the Yamaha.


Thanks Cholly, but i spent too much on getting my 5.1 setup to ever use the tv speakers... I mean they sound ok, yet my setup is strictly for sound quality. And of course for the best HD image i can get.

#17 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 05:56 PM

In that case, it would be appropriate to connect the HDMI output of the VIP612 to one of the HDMI inputs on the TV and optical out from the VIP612 to an optical input on the Yamaha.

This is why my HDMI goes straight to the TV.

A possible advantage of going HDMI through this particular Yamaha receiver is that it claims to feature automatic sound synchronization; an issue for more than a few DIRECTV subscribers.

#18 OFFLINE   Datagg

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 06:17 PM

This is why my HDMI goes straight to the TV.

A possible advantage of going HDMI through this particular Yamaha receiver is that it claims to feature automatic sound synchronization; an issue for more than a few DIRECTV subscribers.


Yea i just dumped my Direct system for Dish. So many problems with Direct, it would take me 30 posts to list them all. I gotta tell ya, this Dish is sweet though, so much more user friendly and everything looks so much better..

i did quite a bit of homework when i bought the Yamaha receiver as to what it could do. That is why, i panicked when the Dish dude told me i need optical lines and all. Thank god i found this forum and you guys to help, or id be at Fryes electronics picking up stuff i didn't need....

#19 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:23 PM

There's no such thing as cables you don't need. I have a whole closet full of cables I didn't think I needed and I'm amazed at how often they come in handy.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
Directv customer since 2000

#20 OFFLINE   Datagg

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:17 PM

There's no such thing as cables you don't need. I have a whole closet full of cables I didn't think I needed and I'm amazed at how often they come in handy.


Oh I Build computer systems for a living, I know about cords... I have enough of them here to fill 3 houses up with.




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