Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Directv Mirror Fee


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
23 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   JAMHRR

JAMHRR

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 103 posts
Joined: Apr 12, 2002

Posted 06 August 2003 - 11:07 AM

Does anyone know if DTV will drop their $4.99 per month per receiver mirroring fee?

My multi-satellite dish is picking up the signal where it can be distributed to 4 receivers. It isn't like I have 4 different multi-satellite dishes with different account numbers that have to be billed.

:rolleyes:

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   RichW

RichW

    Hall Of Fame/Supporter

  • Gold Members
  • 6,526 posts
Joined: Mar 29, 2002

Posted 06 August 2003 - 11:13 AM

The "mirroring fee" generates millions of dollars each month for both DBS providers. It is hiighly unlikely that this fee will disappear, since millions of households are willing to pay it.

#3 OFFLINE   Greg Bimson

Greg Bimson

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,918 posts
Joined: May 05, 2003

Posted 06 August 2003 - 11:33 AM

DirecTV's subscriber acquisition costs (SAC) for the second quarter of 2003 rose $50 per subscriber, I believe from $545 to $595. On the conference call, the rise in SAC was attributed to the many new customers that were buying multiple STBs.

This fee is not going to go away.

Previously, DirecTV has stated that 40 percent of their customer base has more than one STB. Using that figure on the current subcriber base, as the base minimum (since DirecTV mentioned higher SAC), that would mean:

There are 4.6 million subscribers with at least a second receiver.
That generates about $23 million per month.
That means the fees generate $276 million per year.

Of course, that does not include:

Subscribers with three or more receivers
An increase in the percentage of subscribers with more than one STB.

DirecTV practially subsidizes every new receiver, and they probably will still have to pay fees for the access card technology for each receiver.

Therefore, DirecTV will not reduce the STB fees.

#4 OFFLINE   JAMHRR

JAMHRR

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 103 posts
Joined: Apr 12, 2002

Posted 06 August 2003 - 11:41 AM

Thank you for your responses. I can live with $4.99 a month mirroring fee because Adelphia cable in the Buffalo area charges $11.00 a month for each digital cable box after the 1st one.

#5 OFFLINE   bills976

bills976

    Godfather/Supporter

  • Registered
  • 506 posts
Joined: Jun 30, 2002

Posted 06 August 2003 - 12:10 PM

DirecTV practially subsidizes every new receiver, and they probably will still have to pay fees for the access card technology for each receiver.

Therefore, DirecTV will not reduce the STB fees.


This of course doesn't apply to poor Pegasus subscribers, who receive nada in terms of promotions when signing up. Plus they get to enjoy the royalty fee as well as the built-in markup on all packages. On top of that, they also pay the extra receiver fee. One can only hope D* will buy these creeps out.

#6 OFFLINE   pez2002

pez2002

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,411 posts
Joined: Dec 13, 2002

Posted 06 August 2003 - 12:56 PM

Thank you for your responses. I can live with $4.99 a month mirroring fee because Adelphia cable in the Buffalo area charges $11.00 a month for each digital cable box after the 1st one.




$11 a month for each box Damm I think comcast does something Like that in philly but for the anolog boxes its free for each tv

Why are digital cable boxes so Expensive And big ????
Mike
http://www.myspace.com/wnnnnnnnbc

xm sub as of/12/31/05

howard stern on xm channels 100-101 :)

#7 Guest_Homer_*

Guest_Homer_*
  • Guests
Joined: --

Posted 06 August 2003 - 01:11 PM

In Pittsburgh where I live, it's 4.99/month on Comcast. They also charge 299 for a Non-returned digital converter that probably costs them very little. Approximately $100 from what I have been able to uncover.

#8 OFFLINE   sampatterson

sampatterson

    Icon/Supporter

  • Gold Members
  • 726 posts
Joined: Aug 27, 2002

Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:36 PM

I believe that in the past that both Directv and Dish also have to pay a royalty or per receiver/smartcard fee to the companies that provide the encryption/conditional access technology, thus part of the extra fee (but probably not $4.99...)

#9 OFFLINE   Mike Richardson

Mike Richardson

    Banned User

  • Banned User
  • 1,212 posts
Joined: Jun 12, 2003

Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:15 PM

Cable is still yelling loud and clear that you can hook up "analog TVs for free to regular cable". Of course, this is sparkly, crappy, 50-channel, no EPG cable. For $5 a month at Direct/DISH your extra TV gets ALL your channels, EPG, etc. For $5 - $15 at cable company you get more (and decent looking) channels and EPG, the analog channels are still crappy. So the value of the $5 fee at DBS companies is more than the $5 - $15 at cable.

I would like to see that fee at $4 for non-leased receivers customers though, on DBS. Try to stay a little competitive. I know someone that has, like, 6 TVs, all cabled up. It would cost them $30 a month to get boxes for all those TVs at a DBS company.
Mike Richardson

#10 OFFLINE   Chris Freeland

Chris Freeland

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,660 posts
Joined: Mar 23, 2002

Posted 06 August 2003 - 07:40 PM

Cable is still yelling loud and clear that you can hook up "analog TVs for free to regular cable". Of course, this is sparkly, crappy, 50-channel, no EPG cable. For $5 a month at Direct/DISH your extra TV gets ALL your channels, EPG, etc. For $5 - $15 at cable company you get more (and decent looking) channels and EPG, the analog channels are still crappy. So the value of the $5 fee at DBS companies is more than the $5 - $15 at cable.

I would like to see that fee at $4 for non-leased receivers customers though, on DBS. Try to stay a little competitive. I know someone that has, like, 6 TVs, all cabled up. It would cost them $30 a month to get boxes for all those TVs at a DBS company.


But just because someone has 6 tv's does not mean they necessarily need a STB for each and every tv. How many of these tv's are being watched at the same time and on different channels. Sometimes a family may have more tv's then family members and some times 2 or more family members will watch the same show on the same channel. Many times 2 or 3 STB's being shared by these 6 tv's is sufficient and having a STB for every tv is a wast of money. Take my house for example, we currently have 3 working tv's with 3 in are family, these 3 tv's are connected to 2 E* STB's plus an outside antenna. Plus we have 2 DVD players, a vcr and an old Natindo 64 game machine, between all of these devices plus the option of watching locals ota, we would be foolish to have more then 2 STB's and do not imagine we are too different then many family's in this regard. This is why if I upgrade to a DVR522 in the near future, it will replace my 2 current STB's rather then supplement them.

#11 OFFLINE   Mike Richardson

Mike Richardson

    Banned User

  • Banned User
  • 1,212 posts
Joined: Jun 12, 2003

Posted 06 August 2003 - 10:50 PM

Yeah but the thing is, they don't want to have to do a bunch of wiring crap with boxes. I know they could get away with 3 boxes but the only economical way to wire them all up would be with coax. Obviously you want S-Video AT LEAST on your good TV (family room/theatre room/whatever). And all those boxes have to have UHF things too.
Mike Richardson

#12 OFFLINE   Mike123abc

Mike123abc

    Hall Of Fame/Supporter

  • Gold Members
  • 2,818 posts
Joined: Jul 19, 2002

Posted 06 August 2003 - 11:02 PM

It will be interesting to see what cable charges when the new digital cable ready TVs come out.... If they allow you to have multiple sets without any mirroring fees, they will really start to put the hurt on DBS.

#13 OFFLINE   Karl Foster

Karl Foster

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,849 posts
Joined: Mar 23, 2002

Posted 06 August 2003 - 11:37 PM

We have four STB's, and only three people in the house. I kept the old RCA DRD 420 that I got with my original setup and put it in the kitchen. I didn't have a way to run wire from the Family Room to the kitchen without making a huge mess, so I don't mind too much paying the $4.99 each month for it. We have three PVR's, and pay $4.99 each for them, as well as $9.95 for the UTV service on the account. We have three PVR's, one in our Family Room, one in the Master Bedroom, and we got one for our daughter for her birthday last Spring. She begged for one, so I, being a softie, bought one for her, and she would rather watch tv in the Family Room on the 32" Toshiba flat-screen, rather than her 13" tv - go figure. It may seem like a lot, but not all of our interests are the same and it works for us (read nobody complains). The extra receivers and the UTV fee nearly double my bill each month. It breaks down like this:

$39.99 - Total Choice Plus w/locals
$2.00 - Fox East/West
$9.95 - UTV monthly fee - worth it, but I still don't like paying it
$4.99 - second receiver - bedroom UTV
$4.99 - third receiver - daughter's UTV
$4.99 - fourth receiver - kitchen rcvr
$4.41 - sales tax - new this month :(
$71.33 - total

If you throw in a couple of PPV's each month, it really starts to add it. I have a hard drive almost full of PPV's we have bought over the past year.

I do find, though, that I get quite a bang for the buck with my setup. We rarely rent DVD's any more - I'd rather wait a couple of weeks and record it off PPV - no late fees (I'm horrible at returning them on time), and I can record and keep as long as I like. My interests are pretty varied, so I record a lot of shows that seem of interest on my subscribed stations - many get erased before I watch them, but at least I have the opportunity not to miss anything that looks of interest to me in the guide. The UTV also picks up stuff I never would have thought to record. I'm really not a tv junkie, and I find that I listen to as much music as I watch tv. I am an analog cable convert of over three years now, and still marvel at how much quality programming is out there, and how good the service, equipment, and overall experience is. I also marvel at the technology. I don't understand it as well as I should, but I sure like the end result. There's my ramblings for the day. Take them for what they are worth. :)

#14 OFFLINE   Mike D-CO5

Mike D-CO5

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,099 posts
Joined: Mar 11, 2003

Posted 07 August 2003 - 07:18 AM

I suggested to Dish that they eliminate all receiver fees and Dvr fees if you subed to AEP so they would have an advantage over cable and Directv and I have heard nothing back at all.

When the tvs all go to digital and they use the plug and play standard I wonder what will happen. This could have been a big plus for Dish to advertise this as and advantage over Both Cable and Directv. Think of all the market share and converts they would have coming to them . Yes they would loose a lot of money that they normally get through additional receiver fees but they would make it up in volume of new customers and they would increase in market share over all competition.

When this plug n play becomes standard I wonder how these Sat companies and Cable companies are going to make up on these fees without going up on all regular packages?

#15 OFFLINE   Mike Richardson

Mike Richardson

    Banned User

  • Banned User
  • 1,212 posts
Joined: Jun 12, 2003

Posted 07 August 2003 - 12:51 PM

It will be interesting to see what cable charges when the new digital cable ready TVs come out.... If they allow you to have multiple sets without any mirroring fees, they will really start to put the hurt on DBS.

I think there was another topic on this. Basically, they are not going to be able to easily do digital cable ready TVs for a few reasons:

1. All cable companies must agree on a standard for digital cable. I believe most, if not all digital cable, in the US, is using the TV Guide (formerly Prevue) interface and compatible receiver. But they all use different encryption keys, and other things like that.

2. What if one cable company decides to switch to MPEG-4 or something to fit in more channels and they have to swap a bunch of receivers? If the receiver is in the TV it will be left out, making the built in receiver useless. The advantage of having all equipment being rented, is lost.

3. Some other reasons I forgot.

4. Couldn't DISH or DirecTV invent a receiver which makes the satellite feed "look like" digital cable and then wire that to all the TVs? You could pay a $10 a month fee on that one receiver (maybe have a rental option) which could feed a lot of TVs.
Mike Richardson

#16 OFFLINE   Chris Freeland

Chris Freeland

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,660 posts
Joined: Mar 23, 2002

Posted 07 August 2003 - 08:11 PM

4. Couldn't DISH or DirecTV invent a receiver which makes the satellite feed "look like" digital cable and then wire that to all the TVs? You could pay a $10 a month fee on that one receiver (maybe have a rental option) which could feed a lot of TVs.


E* has some receivers in the works that kind of do what you are talking about.
322 coming this fall with 2 tuners with separate outputs and one card and no 2nd receiver charge on that 2nd tuner.
DVR522 coming this fall, same as 322, but with 120G hardrive and DVR capabilities added on.
DVR544, coming ? Same as 522 except with 4 tuners and no extra receiver fees on extra tuners.

#17 OFFLINE   Mike123abc

Mike123abc

    Hall Of Fame/Supporter

  • Gold Members
  • 2,818 posts
Joined: Jul 19, 2002

Posted 07 August 2003 - 08:29 PM

I think there was another topic on this. Basically, they are not going to be able to easily do digital cable ready TVs for a few reasons:

1. All cable companies must agree on a standard for digital cable. I believe most, if not all digital cable, in the US, is using the TV Guide (formerly Prevue) interface and compatible receiver. But they all use different encryption keys, and other things like that.

2. What if one cable company decides to switch to MPEG-4 or something to fit in more channels and they have to swap a bunch of receivers? If the receiver is in the TV it will be left out, making the built in receiver useless. The advantage of having all equipment being rented, is lost.

3. Some other reasons I forgot.

4. Couldn't DISH or DirecTV invent a receiver which makes the satellite feed "look like" digital cable and then wire that to all the TVs? You could pay a $10 a month fee on that one receiver (maybe have a rental option) which could feed a lot of TVs.


They agreed to a standard with cablelabs last year and that is why this year they are going to be able to put out digital cable ready TVs with smart cards.

#18 OFFLINE   Mike Richardson

Mike Richardson

    Banned User

  • Banned User
  • 1,212 posts
Joined: Jun 12, 2003

Posted 07 August 2003 - 10:10 PM

They agreed to a standard with cablelabs last year and that is why this year they are going to be able to put out digital cable ready TVs with smart cards.

And 5 years later when they add a bunch of HD channels and runs out of space on the system and want to change to MPEG-4 or whatever then they'll be screwed.
Mike Richardson

#19 OFFLINE   timf

timf

    Legend/Supporter

  • Gold Members
  • 254 posts
Joined: Apr 21, 2002

Posted 08 August 2003 - 11:53 AM

I think DIRECTV should revise multiple receiver fees as follows. It would still generate revenue, but save those of us who have lots of receivers (me) money.

1-2 receivers: Included
3-4 receivers: $9.95/mo
5-8 receivers: $19.95/mo

The way I see it, people with 5 or more receivers are likely to subscribe to a higher programming package anyway, so giving people the 6th-8th receiver free wouldn't cost them too much money. Perhaps they should enforce the telephone line rule more strictly to avoid people subscribing 8 receivers just to give them to friends.

#20 OFFLINE   Chris Freeland

Chris Freeland

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,660 posts
Joined: Mar 23, 2002

Posted 08 August 2003 - 03:14 PM

I have had E* since 96 and at that time I sold E*, D*, P* and C-band for a local satellite dealer. In 96, both D* and E* charged only a $1.99 2nd receiver fee, however the hardware was $700-800 and a 2nd receiver was only about $50 less or $650-750. Latter by the end of 96 or early 97 the price of the hardware dropped to about $300 with standalone receivers going for about $250 and they have continued to drop ever since, the 2nd receiver fee went up to the current $4.99 fee when the price of hardware dropped. It was explained to me that the higher 2nd receiver fee was to offset the lower cost of hardware because E* and D* were losing money on hardware, with the first receiver D* and E* get their hardware losses back through the programing subscriptions which they do not get with a 2nd receiver, the $4.99 mirror fee helps make up that loss on the hardware, because of this I doubt that D* or E* will ever discontinue this fee.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...