Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Will Digital Switch Leave Some Behind?


  • Please log in to reply
80 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 20,307 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 27 May 2009 - 01:28 PM

Instead of moaning and whining about their tv's going dark, a lot of seniors or not, how about skipping a week of dropping $50-$100 on lottery or Atlantic City slots or $7 a pack for cigarettes and buying a converter box. I see it all the time at the lottery counter. Personally, I don't play the lottery. I have no sympathy for these folks. I'm sure Mr. Vernon disagrees.


Actually, why would you think I would disagree?

While I do have sympathy for people who are actually in need of assistance... by and large, those are not the people we are talking about in this thread..

Most of the people who are "worried" over for lack of a converter seem to me to be folks who already have the means to do this themselves OR pay for someone to do it.

My gripe has been consistent lack of worry or offer of assistance for the people truly in need of things.

I agree, there are people who could make minor adjustments to their budget and easily afford the $40 converter box.

-- !rotaredoM mA eM

What I do when I'm not here


...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#27 OFFLINE   ercjncprdtv

ercjncprdtv

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 162 posts
Joined: Feb 11, 2008

Posted 29 May 2009 - 10:29 PM

I really believe that the majority of people who are not prepared for the switchover still think that it does not apply to them. That somehow they will "see" the digital signals on their TV because the station is going to do it for them.Or something similar to that idea. I don't think that it is a matter of cost anymore.

#28 OFFLINE   ziggy29

ziggy29

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 691 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio DMA
Joined: Nov 18, 2004

Posted 30 May 2009 - 11:46 AM

I saw a number somewhere which stated 42% of the stations have already converted. While the last delay may have been 11th hour, they were discussing it prior to that not to mention congress tried to rush it through once and failed. I don't hear the rumbling this time so I am pretty confident this one will happen.

Agreed. It still COULD happen in theory, but I'm not hearing as much blustering in the halls of Congress this time -- and as I mentioned earlier, they can't use the "broke" coupon program to justify another delay. Plus, I don't think the stations are too keen on keeping the power going for two different signals for a few more months -- especially if the analog shutdown allows them to shut off a costly UHF signal.

I also think there's an increasing acceptance that no matter how much we delay, there will always be some people who will fail to prepare and adjust until they lose their picture.

#29 ONLINE   Tom Robertson

Tom Robertson

    Lifetime Achiever

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,387 posts
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 30 May 2009 - 01:15 PM

Before we go blaming seniors, we should look closer at the data. As a group the seniors have been the most prepared group for a very long time.

http://blog.nielsen....tal-television/

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#30 OFFLINE   B Newt

B Newt

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 718 posts
Joined: Aug 12, 2007

Posted 30 May 2009 - 02:17 PM

Frys has digital converters for $4.95 with the government $40 coupon.

HR20-100 s/w version 0x192
au9 dish NO multiswitch or diplexers.
Internet connection via WIFI.


#31 OFFLINE   scooper

scooper

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,928 posts
  • LocationYoungsville NC
Joined: Apr 22, 2002

Posted 30 May 2009 - 02:49 PM

Before we go blaming seniors, we should look closer at the data. As a group the seniors have been the most prepared group for a very long time.

http://blog.nielsen....tal-television/

Cheers,
Tom


Absolutely - the people MOST unprepared are the 18-30 somethings - the group actually most able to repidly deal with it when analog shuts off. The older the household - the more likely they are ready for this to happen.

Myself - I got my mother-in-law (she's OTA only) in the queue EARLY for her coupons, and explained to MY Mom that since she is on cable - she's fine (she thought she might need some CECBs).
You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

#32 OFFLINE   HIPAR

HIPAR

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 749 posts
Joined: May 14, 2005

Posted 30 May 2009 - 02:57 PM

It's going to leave me behind and that has nothing to do with my state of readiness. I have two ATSC televisions but there are no digital signals here in the Pocono Mountains of NE Pa. My weak but viewable analogs from New York and Philadelphia will be gone.

--- CHAS
But I don't want to go among mad people

#33 ONLINE   Tom Robertson

Tom Robertson

    Lifetime Achiever

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,387 posts
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 30 May 2009 - 03:02 PM

It's going to leave me behind and that has nothing to do with my state of readiness. I have two ATSC televisions but there are no digital signals here in the Pocono Mountains of NE Pa. My weak but viewable analogs from New York and Philadelphia will be gone.

--- CHAS


Is there any chance your stations will be able to go higher power after all the transition is done?

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#34 OFFLINE   n3ntj

n3ntj

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,742 posts
  • LocationLancaster, PA area
Joined: Dec 18, 2006

Posted 30 May 2009 - 04:48 PM

It depends what happens after the analogs shut down. Some stations may try to get FCC approval for minor changes (such as power output) based upon what happens. I would say this probably only pertains to stations changing channels after June 12th.

HD Snob - "Friends Don't Let Friends Watch Cable".
Electrical/RF Engineer & Inspector
DirecTV Equipment: HR24-200 (2), 5LNB Slimline, AM21, SWiM 8 installed (MRV), Cinema Kit (Wifi connection)
Configuration: Native OFF. Units OFF when not in use.
TVs: 2 Panasonic Plasma TV's each using HDMI (one 1080p/one 720p)
DirecTV customer since 1998. Plus HD DVR package w/ NHL Center Ice & MLB Extra Innings.
OTA Antenna: Homebrew UHF & VHF antennas w/ 30dB amplifier fed w/ RG-6 Quad-shield coax.


#35 ONLINE   Tom Robertson

Tom Robertson

    Lifetime Achiever

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,387 posts
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 30 May 2009 - 04:52 PM

It depends what happens after the analogs shut down. Some stations may try to get FCC approval for minor changes (such as power output) based upon what happens. I would say this probably only pertains to stations changing channels after June 12th.

And there are stations who right now can't broadcast their full digital strength until the analogs they might interfere shutdown. So I have some, limited hope for HIPAR.

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#36 OFFLINE   ajc68

ajc68

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 667 posts
Joined: Jan 23, 2008

Posted 30 May 2009 - 04:58 PM

The people that aren't ready now are the same people that weren't ready before. The transition itself is what needed to be done to get everybody on board that was missing. Therefore, the delay should have never happened.

#37 OFFLINE   JB292

JB292

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 71 posts
Joined: Apr 24, 2009

Posted 30 May 2009 - 05:46 PM

I am a DirecTV installer, and in the last few weeks have had customers who actually bought the digital boxes. In three different cases, the customers told me the boxes worked fine for a while, then quit completely, and wouldn't power up. The digital boxes in question were all made in China.

#38 OFFLINE   HIPAR

HIPAR

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 749 posts
Joined: May 14, 2005

Posted 30 May 2009 - 07:10 PM

And there are stations who right now can't broadcast their full digital strength until the analogs they might interfere shutdown. So I have some, limited hope for HIPAR.

Cheers,
Tom


I realize this so it's not like I won't give it a try after the DTV transition.

This is a dead area as confirmed by TVFool.com. The translators are directional towards Stroudsburg. I receive no UHF here but do get snowy VHF analogs which will mostly be going away.

The one interesting experiment will be WVPI Philadelphia about 80 miles to the south. It will be using channel 6. Everyone contends VHF Lo is useless for DTV.

--- CHAS
But I don't want to go among mad people

#39 OFFLINE   Upstream

Upstream

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,050 posts
Joined: Jul 04, 2006

Posted 31 May 2009 - 09:34 AM

HIPAR -- The FCC has market-by-market DTV coverage maps ( click here for list) which show where they expect households to gain and lose reception following the conversion. Because a lot of stations are changing power, and in some cases transmitter location, inability to receive a strong analog signal does not mean you won't receive a digital signal.

So depending on where you are in the Poconos, you might find you can get reception from Philadelphia (including Philadelphia market stations broadcast from Allentown) or New York. Also check the Wilkes Barre - Scranton market, as most stations there will have much stronger signals to the south.

#40 OFFLINE   n3ntj

n3ntj

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,742 posts
  • LocationLancaster, PA area
Joined: Dec 18, 2006

Posted 31 May 2009 - 11:08 AM

I realize this so it's not like I won't give it a try after the DTV transition.

This is a dead area as confirmed by TVFool.com. The translators are directional towards Stroudsburg. I receive no UHF here but do get snowy VHF analogs which will mostly be going away.

The one interesting experiment will be WVPI Philadelphia about 80 miles to the south. It will be using channel 6. Everyone contends VHF Lo is useless for DTV.

--- CHAS


Yep, I am expecting to lose WPVI-DT in a few weeks since they're moving back to channel 6.

And probably 90% of those who weren't ready in Feb still aren't ready. The delay simply wasn't needed.

HD Snob - "Friends Don't Let Friends Watch Cable".
Electrical/RF Engineer & Inspector
DirecTV Equipment: HR24-200 (2), 5LNB Slimline, AM21, SWiM 8 installed (MRV), Cinema Kit (Wifi connection)
Configuration: Native OFF. Units OFF when not in use.
TVs: 2 Panasonic Plasma TV's each using HDMI (one 1080p/one 720p)
DirecTV customer since 1998. Plus HD DVR package w/ NHL Center Ice & MLB Extra Innings.
OTA Antenna: Homebrew UHF & VHF antennas w/ 30dB amplifier fed w/ RG-6 Quad-shield coax.


#41 OFFLINE   machavez00

machavez00

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,671 posts
  • LocationPhoenix, Arizona
Joined: Nov 02, 2006

Posted 31 May 2009 - 11:57 AM

HIPAR -- The FCC has market-by-market DTV coverage maps ( click here for list) which show where they expect households to gain and lose reception following the conversion. Because a lot of stations are changing power, and in some cases transmitter location, inability to receive a strong analog signal does not mean you won't receive a digital signal.

So depending on where you are in the Poconos, you might find you can get reception from Philadelphia (including Philadelphia market stations broadcast from Allentown) or New York. Also check the Wilkes Barre - Scranton market, as most stations there will have much stronger signals to the south.

Quite interesting maps for the Phoenix DMA. Some stations gain coverage, some lose, and some are static.

#42 OFFLINE   Nick

Nick

    Keep going - don't give up!

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,406 posts
  • LocationThe Beautiful Golden Isles of Georgia
Joined: Apr 23, 2002

Posted 31 May 2009 - 11:57 AM

Never let it be said that 'we' didn't give the malingerers and slackers a second chance! :rolleyes:

.


~ 13 Years on DBSTalk ~
Charter Gold Club Member
DBSTalk Club ~ 21k Club
Top 10 Poster

.


#43 OFFLINE   HIPAR

HIPAR

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 749 posts
Joined: May 14, 2005

Posted 31 May 2009 - 01:37 PM

Never let it be said that 'we' didn't give the malingerers and slackers a second chance! :rolleyes:


Well, the entire transition is quickly heading into history. I haven't seen any reference to an uproar where the DTV has occurred so our congress people won't be afraid of losing an election over this matter.

Ready or not, here we come. :icon_da:

--- CHAS
But I don't want to go among mad people

#44 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 20,307 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 31 May 2009 - 01:40 PM

I wonder how those "xxx aren't prepared" surveys are conducted anyway. Besides the allusion that older people are more prepared than younger (which is counter to what the fear-mongers would say)...

I wonder how the survey is worded.

If, for example, the question was asked "Do you have converter boxes for all your TVs"... the answer might be no, if someone is waiting for a good deal OR waiting to possibly replace some TVs OR just has TVs that are "extra" and have no intent of being upgraded.

So a survey could show "unprepared" but it might not be for lack of awareness... It could be a simple "wait until it is necessary" kind of unprepared that would drop to near zero once the deadline comes and forces the fencesitters to act.

As an example... I often let things like car inspection, car registration, etc. almost expire before renewing. Technically speaking I gain nothing by doing so because the next expiration/renewal date is the same... but still I wait because until the deadline is almost there, I have no reason to hurry.

-- !rotaredoM mA eM

What I do when I'm not here


#45 OFFLINE   RusH

RusH

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 8 posts
Joined: Mar 06, 2005

Posted 01 June 2009 - 09:23 AM

As long as they have an AM radio, it should be a non-issue. :D

#46 OFFLINE   Nick

Nick

    Keep going - don't give up!

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,406 posts
  • LocationThe Beautiful Golden Isles of Georgia
Joined: Apr 23, 2002

Posted 01 June 2009 - 10:30 AM

As long as they have an AM radio, it should be a non-issue. :D

As a 'geezer who gets his radidio from AM, FM, XM and streaming off the 'net, I have to agree. People, young and old, hear what they want to hear and ignore the rest. That's why we have so many peeps, young and old, who tune out reality and, as a result, are just plain ignorant about the world around them. I think Jay Leno's 'Jaywalking' segments pretty well bear that out.

The other big problem looming on the horizon is the demise of local and regional newspapers. We've long ago lost local programming on AM radio. When your local newspaper folds, where will you get your local news? Bloggers? Sorry, but I don't consider bloggers to be reliable sources at all.

After all, information on the Internet consists of half lies and half truth. The problem is figuring which is which.

.


~ 13 Years on DBSTalk ~
Charter Gold Club Member
DBSTalk Club ~ 21k Club
Top 10 Poster

.


#47 ONLINE   Tom Robertson

Tom Robertson

    Lifetime Achiever

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,387 posts
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 01 June 2009 - 11:54 AM

I realize this so it's not like I won't give it a try after the DTV transition.

This is a dead area as confirmed by TVFool.com. The translators are directional towards Stroudsburg. I receive no UHF here but do get snowy VHF analogs which will mostly be going away.

The one interesting experiment will be WVPI Philadelphia about 80 miles to the south. It will be using channel 6. Everyone contends VHF Lo is useless for DTV.

--- CHAS


Good luck. I hope you can get something reasonable digitally.

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#48 OFFLINE   Jim5506

Jim5506

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,553 posts
Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Posted 01 June 2009 - 04:24 PM

Everyone contends VHF Lo is useless for DTV.



Channel 6 is not useless for DTV.

It is much better than channels 2-5, but not as good interference wise as 7-13.

Distance wise it is better than channels 7-13, i.e. the signal travels better through the atmosphere and bends over the horizon easier.
Tuners: Hopper 2000; Hopper w/Sling; 3 Joeys; Samsung SIR-T351; Accurian 6000;2 X HD TiVo; 2 X TiVo Series 2 Stand alone; Panasonic Showstopper 2000
Dish 1000.2 @ 110, 119, 129; dish 500 @ 61.5
Antennas - CM4228; RS U75-R; coathanger; Funke PSP.1922 (stillin the box); paperclip
Displays: Sony VPH D50Q with HD Fury HDMI input; Hitachi 57F59; Sony Bravia LCD;Sanyo 32" LCD; Panasonic 42" plasma
Sony 80GB PS3; Toshiba HD-DVD

Give me a Finco colinear array and I'll rule the world - HA-HA-HA-HA!

#49 OFFLINE   n3ntj

n3ntj

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,742 posts
  • LocationLancaster, PA area
Joined: Dec 18, 2006

Posted 02 June 2009 - 03:18 PM

Why on earth are some channels moving back to their low-VHF channels this month anyway? Is it solely so they can try to save some $$$ with lower power output? It may backfire when they also have lower ratings because fewer people can receive their DT signal in the coming weeks.

For example - WPVI - 6.1/6.2/6.3 DT is currently transmitting up on channel 64, if I recall. I know that channel will no longer be available due to the auctioning off of the high UHF freqs, but why go back to channel 6? I would think they could find a channel b/w 14~50 that wouldn't interfere with another station yet still provide a usable DT signal in their service area.

I get no signal on analog channel 6 currently.. I would suspect I'll see nothing on the 12th. I'll cross my fingers, though.

HD Snob - "Friends Don't Let Friends Watch Cable".
Electrical/RF Engineer & Inspector
DirecTV Equipment: HR24-200 (2), 5LNB Slimline, AM21, SWiM 8 installed (MRV), Cinema Kit (Wifi connection)
Configuration: Native OFF. Units OFF when not in use.
TVs: 2 Panasonic Plasma TV's each using HDMI (one 1080p/one 720p)
DirecTV customer since 1998. Plus HD DVR package w/ NHL Center Ice & MLB Extra Innings.
OTA Antenna: Homebrew UHF & VHF antennas w/ 30dB amplifier fed w/ RG-6 Quad-shield coax.


#50 OFFLINE   moghedien

moghedien

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 203 posts
Joined: Dec 03, 2007

Posted 02 June 2009 - 03:48 PM

Why on earth are some channels moving back to their low-VHF channels this month anyway? Is it solely so they can try to save some $$$ with lower power output? It may backfire when they also have lower ratings because fewer people can receive their DT signal in the coming weeks.

For example - WPVI - 6.1/6.2/6.3 DT is currently transmitting up on channel 64, if I recall. I know that channel will no longer be available due to the auctioning off of the high UHF freqs, but why go back to channel 6? I would think they could find a channel b/w 14~50 that wouldn't interfere with another station yet still provide a usable DT signal in their service area.

I get no signal on analog channel 6 currently.. I would suspect I'll see nothing on the 12th. I'll cross my fingers, though.



Where are they supposed to go?

http://www.rabbitear...ude=&longitude=




Protected By... spam firewall...And...