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Over-the-Air Digital Reception Issues and Discussion


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148 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 10:33 AM

This is a thread for general discussion of local reception issues. Some additional changes are going to be happening after July 2009, when "nightlight" stations finally turn off their analog signals.
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, DISH, The Signal Group, or any other company.

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#2 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 10:43 AM

They've switched from their temporary UHF assisgnment back to the VHF-Hi (Ch 7). However they're now at lower power and will be for a few weeks until a new antenna gets installed. Where I used to be able to get them on OTA tuners I can't now and even seeing occasional breakup's via DirecTV HD LIL.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#3 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 02:49 PM

I'm between 3 DMAs and have to rotate the antenna to be able to 'see' the two others. I've seen people mention having multiple antennas pointing in different directions, but how do you connect 3 antennas to one TV/STB? Is there some kind of signal combiner?
Help stamp out Twits and Twitterers!

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#4 OFFLINE   PlanoEd

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 03:15 PM

Is any one in the Dallas area having problems receiving 8-1 from antenna. I get
8-2 and 8-3 from antenna. I get 8 from satellite. Thanks

#5 OFFLINE   damps

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 04:57 PM

What controls a HR20/100 for OTA digital channels when they move frequency? Richmond, VA Channel 12 moved from 54 back to 12 after June 12th but their 2 OTA 12.1 and 12.2 still appear to be pointed to their temporary location as attempts to view either show "Searching for OTA signal". I have cleared and reinitialized the OTA channels several times and I have also reset the HR20/100 several times across several days without recovery. Does the HR20/100 have a rescan or are they controlled directly by some data table that may not yet be updated. I know they are working as I can see them on another tv with a converter box off of the same antenna. Not a showstopper by any means but just curious why as it was the only glitch I saw at the transition. Thanks. Andy

#6 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 05:10 PM

They are controlled by a data table that must be updated by DirecTV, based on information passed by the station to Tribune. The best path to correct any errors is to contact the STATION in question, as they are the ones with the authority to get the table updated. Calling DirecTV directly won't get you anywhere; they'll only make changes initiated by the station.

#7 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 05:15 PM

It looks like WWBT-DT is now on channel 12 (don't know what it was using before the analog shutdown). So the question is has DirecTV not upgraded the tables yet for your location or have they and your antenna or something else is causing reception problems (like is your antenna a VHF/UHF or UHF only)? Can you move the HR20 to the same location as the digital converter that's working to see if it's something in your home wiring?

Edited by RAD, 14 June 2009 - 05:23 PM.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#8 OFFLINE   damps

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 05:51 PM

I am going to assume it's a data table issue. I will wait a while before trying again. I believe the issue is related to the change of frequency as all other Richmond signals off the same antenna are good on the HR20/100 and on a converter box on the same antenna everything is ok for all channels after a rescan to get new frequency. Thanks for the confirmation.

#9 OFFLINE   HIPAR

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 07:15 AM

WPVI on RF6 is experiencing major DTV problems in Philadelphia. Seems that you could climb to the top of their 1000 foot tower and 'holler' farther than they can transmit. :lol:

Now, many viewers cannot receive their DTV signal while they had no problems with the analog signal. When I lived in Cherry Hill NJ, I had no problem receiving WPVI (RF6) with a telescoping whip antenna on a battery powered Sony TV.

The transmission power levels calculated by the FCC account for the greater power efficiency of 8VSB digital waveform. So, even with lower DTV power, parity in coverage should have been maintained.

The situation puzzles me. What is wrong?

a) Is the 8VSB/NTSC power advantage only demonstrable in the laboratory
B) Is there a technical malfunction at the WPVI transmitter
c) Does the much touted impulse noise on VHF low band prevent receivers from locking on scan

Can increasing power help? Maybe in areas where viewers are receiving a signal that's breaking up. But doubling power provides 3 dB. Is 3 dB enough to go from not a trace of signal to fully locked?

I'm thinking ABC/Disney might be in deep 'doo-doo' with the DTV transition. Apparently they are having similar problems with RF7 at Chicago. Not good in two of the four top DMA's.

I'm glad I'm not the engineer in charge.

--- CHAS

Edited by HIPAR, 15 June 2009 - 07:49 AM.

But I don't want to go among mad people

#10 OFFLINE   cmtar

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 07:17 AM

Everything for me stayed the same, i did rescan though because my channel 9, (WTVM) is pixelated, still is after rescan.

#11 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 07:58 AM

Atmosphere must be just right this morning. I'm getting more out of Nashville and some of the Evansville channels are even locking in reflected (antenna pointed away).
Help stamp out Twits and Twitterers!

HD, SchmacHD!! Just be glad you've got a picture at all.

#12 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 08:46 AM

And I'm getting a lock (about 70%) on 11.1 and 11.2 WHAS out of Louisville which is about 150 air miles.

I'm sure that won't last though.
Help stamp out Twits and Twitterers!

HD, SchmacHD!! Just be glad you've got a picture at all.

#13 OFFLINE   hobie346

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 09:34 AM

Called D* to complain about bad channel mappings for the three channels. CSR thought that I was calling to complain about the digital converter boxes and informed me that D* doesn't handle them. It went downhill after that.

Still waiting for the correct channel mapping to get downloaded. :mad:

#14 OFFLINE   waynebtx

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 09:40 AM

Ch 38-1 not showing up it our loc fox.

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#15 OFFLINE   Upstream

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 10:51 AM

WPVI on RF6 is experiencing major DTV problems in Philadelphia. Seems that you could climb to the top of their 1000 foot tower and 'holler' farther than they can transmit. :lol:

Now, many viewers cannot receive their DTV signal while they had no problems with the analog signal. When I lived in Cherry Hill NJ, I had no problem receiving WPVI (RF6) with a telescoping whip antenna on a battery powered Sony TV.

The transmission power levels calculated by the FCC account for the greater power efficiency of 8VSB digital waveform. So, even with lower DTV power, parity in coverage should have been maintained.

The situation puzzles me. What is wrong?

a) Is the 8VSB/NTSC power advantage only demonstrable in the laboratory
B) Is there a technical malfunction at the WPVI transmitter
c) Does the much touted impulse noise on VHF low band prevent receivers from locking on scan

Can increasing power help? Maybe in areas where viewers are receiving a signal that's breaking up. But doubling power provides 3 dB. Is 3 dB enough to go from not a trace of signal to fully locked?

I'm thinking ABC/Disney might be in deep 'doo-doo' with the DTV transition. Apparently they are having similar problems with RF7 at Chicago. Not good in two of the four top DMA's.

I'm glad I'm not the engineer in charge.

--- CHAS


The reports that I hear are that people just a few miles from the transmitter are having problems receiving Philadelphia channel 6. It sounds like it is more than just a power problem.

#16 OFFLINE   dorfd1

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 11:18 AM

The reports that I hear are that people just a few miles from the transmitter are having problems receiving Philadelphia channel 6. It sounds like it is more than just a power problem.


the dtvanswers webstie would say those people need new antennas.

#17 OFFLINE   machavez00

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 11:19 AM

Many stations that went back to VHF are running lower power while their full power transmitters are being built.

#18 OFFLINE   HIPAR

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 05:20 PM

The reports that I hear are that people just a few miles from the transmitter are having problems receiving Philadelphia channel 6. It sounds like it is more than just a power problem.


The current thinking:

With some converter boxes, rescans are not replacing the old channel settings. The FCC is reporting channels are being found after two scans are performed; the first one without an antenna connected clears the memory then the second scan with the antenna connected finds the channels correctly.

--- CHAS
But I don't want to go among mad people

#19 OFFLINE   Upstream

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 05:42 PM

I live about 50 miles northeast of Phila. WPVI-6 has the strongest signal I can receive from Philadelphia.

#20 OFFLINE   Link

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 06:39 AM

In my parents local area, the CBS station was always the strongest on channel 10 while other stations on channnels 2 and 38 were weaker. Since the switch, 10 is using digital VHF 10 while the two others use UHF channels. With an outside antenna about 30 miles away, they all come in fine, but with an indoor antenna that picked up all 3 before the switch now only picks up the UHF ones and it is a VHF/UHF antenna. I tried a different one for them with a better design for VHF and higher amplification but still no signal at all on the VHF station...

I'm beginning to wonder if all stations should be UHF digital and do away with VHF altogether.




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