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Over-the-Air Digital Reception Issues and Discussion


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148 replies to this topic

#126 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 08:55 PM

That's not a good antenna, and probably the source of your problems. Indoor reception is prone to lots of potential interference issues - lamps in your house, people moving around a room, trucks passing by outside, etc. Plus all the stuff that impacts outdoor antennas like weather conditions. Depending on your distance and topography, you may need to give serious consideration to an attic antenna or an outdoor antenna. And RCA's marketing "rating" isn't worth a hill of beans. You need Front-to-Back ratio and net gain numbers over a large number of channels to really compare antennas.


I do not gave an attic. At first the aerial worked perfectly. Then after an put two weeks the picture on the OTA stations looked weird at times.

Which is the best aerial that you would recommend.


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#127 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 04:06 AM

I can't tell you which one for sure because I don't know how far you are from your stations.  But I'd give serious consideration to the Mohu Leaf lineup - I was very impressed with the one I tried, and reviewers have generally been very positive.  I can't think of a better indoor antenna to try.  But it from Amazon and if it doesn't work for you, you can return it within a month for the cost of return shipping.  If you're close and have strong signals, stay away from the amplified ones.  If you're further away or blocked by a lot of hills, get an amplified one.  Experiment heavily with location!  2" is a long distance at the wavelengths of most television stations these days.



#128 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 11:39 AM

I can't tell you which one for sure because I don't know how far you are from your stations. But I'd give serious consideration to the Mohu Leaf lineup - I was very impressed with the one I tried, and reviewers have generally been very positive. I can't think of a better indoor antenna to try. But it from Amazon and if it doesn't work for you, you can return it within a month for the cost of return shipping. If you're close and have strong signals, stay away from the amplified ones. If you're further away or blocked by a lot of hills, get an amplified one. Experiment heavily with location! 2" is a long distance at the wavelengths of most television stations these days.


I just remembered that I switched USB ports in which I have the OTA module plugged in. I switched that back to the front like it was before when I first installed the module.

Maybe the back USB port has some sort of conflict.




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#129 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 10:08 PM

What makes the Leaf Aerial have such great reception compared to other aerials of the same design?


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#130 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 02:54 AM

What makes the Leaf Aerial have such great reception compared to other aerials of the same design?

Without cracking one open and looking inside, I don't really know the differences.  But just because they all have a box shape doesn't mean they're the same inside.  Quality connectors, good baluns, different materials, these things all matter and are hard to assess by looking at a box.  I was very impressed with the Leaf antenna I tested, as it vastly outperformed my expectations.  That's not to say it will be better for you, because indoor antennas are very unpredictable.  I've seen junky ones work just fine, and I've seen situations where the best don't cut it.



#131 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 01:10 PM

Without cracking one open and looking inside, I don't really know the differences. But just because they all have a box shape doesn't mean they're the same inside. Quality connectors, good baluns, different materials, these things all matter and are hard to assess by looking at a box. I was very impressed with the Leaf antenna I tested, as it vastly outperformed my expectations. That's not to say it will be better for you, because indoor antennas are very unpredictable. I've seen junky ones work just fine, and I've seen situations where the best don't cut it.


I will purchase a Leaf Ultimate to see if there is any difference. I scan in like 13 channels.

By placing the leaf by a window will that improve on reception?


All the reviews I read owners hang theirs on a wall some place and a few behind their TVs.


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#132 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:04 PM

By placing the leaf by a window will that improve on reception?

Depends on what your window is made of and what's inside it.  How hard is it to give it a try?  You will almost certainly do better to place the antenna nearest the wall/window facing the directions your channels are coming from.  The further away from the wall you go, typically the worse it will get.  But indoor reception is not about logic or knowing the rules so much as it is experimenting until you get the desired result.



#133 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:56 PM

Depends on what your window is made of and what's inside it. How hard is it to give it a try? You will almost certainly do better to place the antenna nearest the wall/window facing the directions your channels are coming from. The further away from the wall you go, typically the worse it will get. But indoor reception is not about logic or knowing the rules so much as it is experimenting until you get the desired result.


The Window is made out of glass. Why would a wall be better reception than a window?




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#134 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:44 AM

The Window is made out of glass. Why would a wall be better reception than a window?

Simple, single-pane glass?  No gases trapped between layers?  Than a window will be great.  But some windows are coated with anti-reflective layers that actually have metals in them, which reflect radio waves, and some gasses do the same thing.  The tricks they use to make windows more energy efficient can make them very poor for television reception.



#135 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:46 PM

Simple, single-pane glass? No gases trapped between layers? Than a window will be great. But some windows are coated with anti-reflective layers that actually have metals in them, which reflect radio waves, and some gasses do the same thing. The tricks they use to make windows more energy efficient can make them very poor for television reception.

Single non pane glass. My place was designed way before all this energy saving stuff started. I also read where cloud cover will make reception not as good.


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Edited by SeaBeagle, 01 April 2014 - 08:43 PM.


#136 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 04:25 AM

I also read where cloud cover will make reception not as good.

 

Daytime reception is the hardest, when the sun is highest.  Nighttime reception on crisp, clear nights is the best for long-distance reception.  VHF channels (2-13) will be problematic during thunderstorms between you and the transmitters.



#137 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:27 PM

Daytime reception is the hardest, when the sun is highest. Nighttime reception on crisp, clear nights is the best for long-distance reception. VHF channels (2-13) will be problematic during thunderstorms between you and the transmitters.


Even using either the leaf or an outdoor aerial?

Another question. Since the reception is not as good sometimes. My question is on DISH anywhere does that application get the signals off or from the attached receiver or fed off the satellites to the device that DISH Anywhere is being watched on?

Maybe I can watch those bad reception channels using iPad using DISH Anywhere.


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#138 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:15 AM

Even using either the leaf or an outdoor aerial?

Another question. Since the reception is not as good sometimes. My question is on DISH anywhere does that application get the signals off or from the attached receiver or fed off the satellites to the device that DISH Anywhere is being watched on?

Lightning strikes are going to mess up channels 2-13 (real channels, not virtual) for any antenna.  If you watched television in the old days, you'll remember the multi-colored lines of static that you'd see every time lighting flashed.  That's interference and it's usually more than enough to disrupt a digital stream.

 

Daytime reception is most difficult for anyone.  However, the better the antenna, or the better placed the antenna, the more signal you can stand to lose without having the signal go out.  Thus, I never lose my channels with my antenna on my roof.  When it was strapped to my deck, I would see occasional dropouts. 

 

Dish Anywhere is streamed from your receiver to your iPad or other viewing device.  It does not bypass your local reception issues.



#139 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:49 PM

Lightning strikes are going to mess up channels 2-13 (real channels, not virtual) for any antenna. If you watched television in the old days, you'll remember the multi-colored lines of static that you'd see every time lighting flashed. That's interference and it's usually more than enough to disrupt a digital stream.

Daytime reception is most difficult for anyone. However, the better the antenna, or the better placed the antenna, the more signal you can stand to lose without having the signal go out. Thus, I never lose my channels with my antenna on my roof. When it was strapped to my deck, I would see occasional dropouts.

Dish Anywhere is streamed from your receiver to your iPad or other viewing device. It does not bypass your local reception issues.


At least before this digital TV Signal change channels came in better than now. The bandwidth is too narrow on a Digital TV channel.


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Edited by SeaBeagle, 03 April 2014 - 06:50 PM.


#140 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 10:41 PM

Every channel still has 6MHz bandwidth, same as analog.

 

The difference with digital is that if your signal falls below the digital cliff - no  picture, on analog the picture slowly disappears into a background of snow.

 

I sort of wish I still lived back where I was raised, two vhf high band channels for NBC and CBS, CBS 51 miles away but LOS on a 2000 ft tower, NBC 73 miles 2 edge, but both were receivable 24/7 with a good crisp color picture back in the analog days (20-25 years ago) with the largest antenna that Radio Shack sold.

 

I wonder what the OTA reception is like with digital.


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#141 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 04:09 AM

I wonder what the OTA reception is like with digital.

In general, if you had a fairly decent picture with analog, you'd get a perfect picture with digital.  If your picture was more snow than picture (you had to defocus a bit to make out the image) then you wouldn't have digital reception.  UHF is a bit worse than VHF for long-distance, but not dramatically so until you get past the radio horizon (about 60 miles over flat terrain.)  Reception over 75 miles is possible with a quality antenna and above-average terrain.



#142 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 07:24 PM

In general, if you had a fairly decent picture with analog, you'd get a perfect picture with digital. If your picture was more snow than picture (you had to defocus a bit to make out the image) then you wouldn't have digital reception. UHF is a bit worse than VHF for long-distance, but not dramatically so until you get past the radio horizon (about 60 miles over flat terrain.) Reception over 75 miles is possible with a quality antenna and above-average terrain.

Would the Leaf brand be OK or an outdoor type. I could move my RCA type indoor aerial to outside to see if that would help.





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Edited by SeaBeagle, 04 April 2014 - 10:42 PM.


#143 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 07:37 PM

Woul the Leaf brand be OK or an outdoor type. I could move my RCA type indoor aerial to outside to see if that would help.

Indoor antennas are not weather sealed and will corrode/degrade rapidly if left outdoors.  But for a short-term test, it's worth trying.



#144 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:55 PM

Indoor antennas are not weather sealed and will corrode/degrade rapidly if left outdoors. But for a short-term test, it's worth trying.


Could protect the aerial with a plastic bag so that will not happen.


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#145 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 03:28 PM

Could protect the aerial with a plastic bag so that will not happen.

Rain is not the only thing that attacks plastics and metals. UV also rots rubber and plastic (including many plastic bags).

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#146 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 05:37 AM

There's nothing "magic" about the Leaf antenna. Just use an outdoor version of a one-bay or two-bay "bowtie" antenna, which is designed to go outside.

They are equal.



#147 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 07:38 AM

Daytime reception is the hardest, when the sun is highest. 

 

 

Even using either the leaf or an outdoor aerial?

There's a lot more junk in the airwaves too.  Business radio like service trucks and cabs, more cell phone traffic, more aircraft flying so more radio traffic to/from them, train communications, traffic light control signals, data to/from emergency vehicles increases, businesses uploading data to satellites (ever see the dishes on top of stores like Dollar General?), etc.


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#148 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:41 PM

There's a lot more junk in the airwaves too. Business radio like service trucks and cabs, more cell phone traffic, more aircraft flying so more radio traffic to/from them, train communications, traffic light control signals, data to/from emergency vehicles increases, businesses uploading data to satellites (ever see the dishes on top of stores like Dollar General?), etc.


I thought those dishes were for some sort of TV reception. The cost between the Leaf and a regular outdoor aerial is about the same.

Do not know which would be better.


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#149 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:02 PM

I shortened the coaxial cable on my aerial today by several feet. I will see of that makes a difference.


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