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eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list


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#2221 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:28 PM

Not dumb luck at all, if you have any knowledge of disk cloning/copying. We'll have to agree to dis-agree.

The difference is that te DVR has already made the file system and partitons for you, at that point you are using a disk tool to copy the data. With GParted, you are building the entire disk structure. The same process should work with Gparted too, I just haven't tested it.

You are wrong on both accounts.
I have knowledge on file systems deep enough to write my own.
Our method (using Gparted or any appropriate Linux XFS tool) is based on using DVR's pre-build correct file system.

Can we switch to appropriate thread ?

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#2222 OFFLINE   grecorj

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:28 PM

Dumb question...once I hook up an external drive to my HR24, can I unplug it and access the recordings on the internal drive? And then re-attach external and see those recordings?
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#2223 OFFLINE   mocarob

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:47 PM

Dumb question...once I hook up an external drive to my HR24, can I unplug it and access the recordings on the internal drive? And then re-attach external and see those recordings?


yes

#2224 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:51 PM

Dumb question...once I hook up an external drive to my HR24, can I unplug it and access the recordings on the internal drive? And then re-attach external and see those recordings?


As long as you reboot after each connect/disconnect of the eSATA drive, yes.
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#2225 OFFLINE   ntrance

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:42 AM

There is a much easier method.

1. Install your new drive into the eSATA.
2. Hook it up to your receiver
3. When it is finished with setup (you will kow when yo can watch live tv) go to the setup menu and restart.
4. When all lights are out on the receiver, unplug the receiver and eSATA power.
5. Hook both drives up to your computer (the original drive and the new one)
6. start up partition cloning software such as HDCLone, Easus Partition Copy, or any other tool capable of copying partitions.
7. Copy partition 2 and partition 3 on the original disk to partition 2 and partition 3 of the new one.
8. Take new larger drive and hook it up to your DVR, you will now have your recorded shows and all your schedules available.

This is much easier than than the gparted method and less prone to user error. This also allows you to use whatever OS and disk software you are comfortable with.

Jamy


Please verify that you can use more capacity on your new larger hard drive than on your original drive. I suspect that once you try store more recordings than your original drive held, you will start to experience lockups on the DVR. If HDClone is simply bit for bit copying as both you and I suspect, you almost will certainly experience the freezing. I tried a similar method without success before posting the xfsdump/xfsrestore method. If you find that the freezing does occur with the HDClone method, please edit your existing posts so as not to spread misinformation. If you confirm it does work, then I suppose that is good news for some. I will still prefer the free method.

#2226 OFFLINE   Bane

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:21 PM

Please verify that you can use more capacity on your new larger hard drive than on your original drive. I suspect that once you try store more recordings than your original drive held, you will start to experience lockups on the DVR. If HDClone is simply bit for bit copying as both you and I suspect, you almost will certainly experience the freezing. I tried a similar method without success before posting the xfsdump/xfsrestore method. If you find that the freezing does occur with the HDClone method, please edit your existing posts so as not to spread misinformation. If you confirm it does work, then I suppose that is good news for some. I will still prefer the free method.


I absolutely am using more space than I had before. I haven't deleted anything from my drives since the upgrades and have contined to record more shows, more than I would have had space for before. All of my units work flawlessly, I have had 0 lockups. I absolutely will post if I have issues, I have nothing to gain by keeping secrets or telling people about this success.

#2227 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:34 PM

ntrance, I think I get explained the point in my previous post.

dd would works here too because of that.

#2228 OFFLINE   ntrance

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:32 PM

I absolutely am using more space than I had before. I haven't deleted anything from my drives since the upgrades and have contined to record more shows, more than I would have had space for before. All of my units work flawlessly, I have had 0 lockups. I absolutely will post if I have issues, I have nothing to gain by keeping secrets or telling people about this success.


Sorry, I don't think I explained myself clearly. I would expect that you could record more shows than were on your previous drive, but not past the max capacity of your previous drive. Let's say you were at 80% full on your previous drive, then I would expect that you could record that final 20% of your old capacity on the new drive without issue. However, if you try to go past 100% capacity of the old drive, then you will start having problems. Since you old drive was about 25% the capacity of your new drive, try filling your new drive until the dvr reports 70% or less free (a little extra just to be sure) by recoding a bunch of HD, then report back. I have no issue with new methods, but I am just skeptical this one works based on prior personal experience, and I have spent a lot of time investigating the process and software involved. If it does work, I would be quite surprised, as the web site for the software makes no mention of xfs or real-time subvolumes, which is why I assume the software is simply using sector by sector copying of the xfs data.

ntrance, I think I get explained the point in my previous post.

dd would works here too because of that.

Having the DVR create the partitions and then using dd to copy the data from each partition over individually over does not work. I tried this back in 2007 along with others, and we all had the problems I described above. That is what lead me to develop the xfsdump/xfsrestore method.

#2229 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:46 PM

Having the DVR create the partitions and then using dd to copy the data from each partition over individually over does not work. I tried this back in 2007 along with others, and we all had the problems I described above. That is what lead me to develop the xfsdump/xfsrestore method.


Using dd will never work if you're using a bigger drive as your destination. Using dd makes an exact copy of the source drive. That includes MBR, partition table, everything.
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#2230 OFFLINE   ntrance

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:33 PM

Using dd will never work if you're using a bigger drive as your destination. Using dd makes an exact copy of the source drive. That includes MBR, partition table, everything.

I gave the abridged version. Several other things were tried, editing partition tables, using xfs_growfs, etc., without success. But the point is, unless the copy tool understands the xfs data and real-time subvolumes, it is unlikely to work. I'll try to refrain from commenting again in this thread, until bane posts his results, as we are already well off topic. I simply wanted provide a warning close to the suspect procedure. Any further discussions can continue in one of the various disk copying threads.

#2231 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:53 PM

That's what I did ask mods - move the off-topic posts to appropriate thread ...

[I should clarify my note about using dd - I must add that: use dd for copy strictly partition's data, without affecting meta data what DVR created.]

#2232 OFFLINE   Bane

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 11:00 AM

Sorry, I don't think I explained myself clearly. I would expect that you could record more shows than were on your previous drive, but not past the max capacity of your previous drive. Let's say you were at 80% full on your previous drive, then I would expect that you could record that final 20% of your old capacity on the new drive without issue. However, if you try to go past 100% capacity of the old drive, then you will start having problems. Since you old drive was about 25% the capacity of your new drive, try filling your new drive until the dvr reports 70% or less free (a little extra just to be sure) by recoding a bunch of HD, then report back. I have no issue with new methods, but I am just skeptical this one works based on prior personal experience, and I have spent a lot of time investigating the process and software involved. If it does work, I would be quite surprised, as the web site for the software makes no mention of xfs or real-time subvolumes, which is why I assume the software is simply using sector by sector copying of the xfs data.

Having the DVR create the partitions and then using dd to copy the data from each partition over individually over does not work. I tried this back in 2007 along with others, and we all had the problems I described above. That is what lead me to develop the xfsdump/xfsrestore method.


I copied a 1 TB drive to a 2 TB drive in one case. My 1 TB drive was 95% full. The 2 TB drive that I did this too is currently at 25% free with no issues. So, I am well beyond the original capacity. My others were 500 GB to 1 TB, and no problems with them either.

Edited by Bane, 14 July 2012 - 02:59 PM.


#2233 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:00 PM

This seemed like a good deal for a 2TB WD EARS drive, $99, free shipping

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822136891...

Hi grecorj (and others).

I have used various Caviar Green drives about 4 times now, with good results, but always installed in a HR20. I got a replacement refurbed HR21 yesterday, and this is my first experience with that model. My MO has always been, as another forum member succinctly puts it, to swap out the internal drive before the FEDEX truck's tailights disappear down the road. This time will be no exception.

So, the question then is what models of WD green drives are the best (at 2 TB) for that particular DVR? Are they the same, pretty much, as for the HR20?

One more: BB converters on the HR21? Yes? No?

I am replacing my last HR10-250 (end of an era; RIP old friend) so if I need them I guess I need to call DTV and get some overnighted.
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#2234 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:18 AM

Hi grecorj (and others).

I have used various Caviar Green drives about 4 times now, with good results, but always installed in a HR20. I got a replacement refurbed HR21 yesterday, and this is my first experience with that model. My MO has always been, as another forum member succinctly puts it, to swap out the internal drive before the FEDEX truck's tailights disappear down the road. This time will be no exception.

So, the question then is what models of WD green drives are the best (at 2 TB) for that particular DVR? Are they the same, pretty much, as for the HR20?

One more: BB converters on the HR21? Yes? No?

I am replacing my last HR10-250 (end of an era; RIP old friend) so if I need them I guess I need to call DTV and get some overnighted.


I've yet to try a Green WD drive that doesn't work on any of the HRs. The EARS is a good choice, I just paid $128 for one on Amazon, so Newegg's price is a good one.

You do need the BB converters unless you have a DECA system. Surprised you don't have one.

Rich

#2235 OFFLINE   Volman

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 10:39 AM

I've yet to try a Green WD drive that doesn't work on any of the HRs. The EARS is a good choice, I just paid $128 for one on Amazon, so Newegg's price is a good one.

You do need the BB converters unless you have a DECA system. Surprised you don't have one.

Rich


Hey, Rich!

Any reason not to buy a WD20EARX for $113.99 off Amazon since it's newer than the "EARS"?

Thanks!

Fred

#2236 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:01 PM

Hey, Rich!

Any reason not to buy a WD20EARX for $113.99 off Amazon since it's newer than the "EARS"?

Thanks!

Fred


Hi Fred, always good to hear from you.

Just bought one for more than that. Nuts. Every time I buy something from Amazon, they drop the price a couple weeks later. Nothing wrong with the EARX, I just put one in one of my 24-500s and it works well.

Rich

#2237 OFFLINE   Volman

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:06 PM

Hi Fred, always good to hear from you.

Just bought one for more than that. Nuts. Every time I buy something from Amazon, they drop the price a couple weeks later. Nothing wrong with the EARX, I just put one in one of my 24-500s and it works well.

Rich


Good to hear from you, Rich.

This one is going into a PC as a backup drive........at least for now. Thanks for the info. I'm the one usually caught in the middle of price drops. Maybe my luck has changed.

Did you have problems with the storm in NJ? I know a guy who was without power for 5 days. Hope you missed that stuff!

Fred

#2238 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:57 PM

Good to hear from you, Rich.

This one is going into a PC as a backup drive........at least for now. Thanks for the info. I'm the one usually caught in the middle of price drops. Maybe my luck has changed.

Did you have problems with the storm in NJ? I know a guy who was without power for 5 days. Hope you missed that stuff!

Fred


Have no idea what's happening in NJ, I'm in MD at the beach for the week. I looked at that storm on the WeatherBug and it looked pretty scary. And it's gonna happen again tonight. Only upside I can see is I might not lose my lawn completely. Might lose all my UPS device's batteries, tho. Everything else is insured. The worst power losses we see are usually to the northwest of us.

Thanx for thinking of me, Fred.

Rich

#2239 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:17 PM

I've yet to try a Green WD drive that doesn't work on any of the HRs. The EARS is a good choice, I just paid $128 for one on Amazon, so Newegg's price is a good one.

You do need the BB converters unless you have a DECA system. Surprised you don't have one.

Rich

Yeah, I got them to send me some, and for whatever reason they are sending me a 6-pack of them.:eek2:

DECA is not for me; all DVRs are in one room.

I had a EURS that I bought last September thinking I would need it for a HR20, but did not, so I am using that with a ThermalTake on this HR21. So far, so good. Of course last September was a bad time to buy due to the tsunami (they were up to $160 then), but that is when I thought I would need it. Slight miscue there.

They did not send a remote, either, which makes no real sense since I was replacing a HR10-250. If it were my company I would fix that today, and it would be simple to do; just have the CSR take down what model of DVR is being replaced. When shipping crosses that with whatever model they are shipping out, just put whatever is needed in the #%$-darned box. It's a no-brainer, isn't it?

That solves three problems for DTV:

1) One service call per replacement rather than two.
2) The illusion that they actually know what they are doing, which the current plan raises significant doubt regarding.
3) The cost of constantly overnighting BB converters and remotes.

Otherwise you have unhappy customers, increased service calls, and the perception that they are pretty far from actually knowing what they are doing or even possess the basic understanding of how to run a business. It's not brain surgery, so I am puzzled as to why they still have this issue, an issue they have had constantly since they started replacing HR10-250s in 2007. Its really disturbing that a company I have given my credit card number to has such a bush-league approach to DVR replacements. OK, back OT. Or, sort of.

******************************

This DVR replacement also allowed me to graduate from component to HDMI (the HR10 had a dead HDMI xmit board). I got a nice 4x2 switch with added analog audio out from Monoprice for about $58.

I have long stated (and it is still true) that component and HDMI have the exact same PQ, and that it is unlikely that component will degrade over short cables (also true). But what became problematic is that when you send 4 different untimed component signals into the same switchbox, the signals are so close together that they can interfere with each other interchassis, and I could briefly see a sync bar ghosting from one input to another on occasion, rolling slowly across the screen. HDMI fixes that.

So, although HDMI has the same PQ as component, if you are going to use an outboard component switch box, you may also have this problem, making HDMI a better choice specifically for that reason.

Edited by TomCat, 20 July 2012 - 07:26 PM.

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#2240 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 06:49 AM

Yeah, I got them to send me some, and for whatever reason they are sending me a 6-pack of them.:eek2:

DECA is not for me; all DVRs are in one room.

I had a EURS that I bought last September thinking I would need it for a HR20, but did not, so I am using that with a ThermalTake on this HR21. So far, so good. Of course last September was a bad time to buy due to the tsunami (they were up to $160 then), but that is when I thought I would need it. Slight miscue there.

They did not send a remote, either, which makes no real sense since I was replacing a HR10-250. If it were my company I would fix that today, and it would be simple to do; just have the CSR take down what model of DVR is being replaced. When shipping crosses that with whatever model they are shipping out, just put whatever is needed in the #%$-darned box. It's a no-brainer, isn't it?

That solves three problems for DTV:

1) One service call per replacement rather than two.
2) The illusion that they actually know what they are doing, which the current plan raises significant doubt regarding.
3) The cost of constantly overnighting BB converters and remotes.

Otherwise you have unhappy customers, increased service calls, and the perception that they are pretty far from actually knowing what they are doing or even possess the basic understanding of how to run a business. It's not brain surgery, so I am puzzled as to why they still have this issue, an issue they have had constantly since they started replacing HR10-250s in 2007. Its really disturbing that a company I have given my credit card number to has such a bush-league approach to DVR replacements. OK, back OT. Or, sort of.

******************************

This DVR replacement also allowed me to graduate from component to HDMI (the HR10 had a dead HDMI xmit board). I got a nice 4x2 switch with added analog audio out from Monoprice for about $58.

I have long stated (and it is still true) that component and HDMI have the exact same PQ, and that it is unlikely that component will degrade over short cables (also true). But what became problematic is that when you send 4 different untimed component signals into the same switchbox, the signals are so close together that they can interfere with each other interchassis, and I could briefly see a sync bar ghosting from one input to another on occasion, rolling slowly across the screen. HDMI fixes that.

So, although HDMI has the same PQ as component, if you are going to use an outboard component switch box, you may also have this problem, making HDMI a better choice specifically for that reason.


I bought a 1080p, 42" Panny plasma last year and it had really crappy PQ when using component wires. Don't know why, but it has great PQ when using HDMI cables. First time this has happened to me.

I replaced a 720p Panny plasma with the 1080p model and just hooked up the wiring the same way. Couldn't figure out why the PQ was so bad on one input and so good on the two others. One input had component and the other two had HDMI inputs. Switched the component to HDMI and the PQ became the same as the other inputs.

Surprised me, I'd been using component wires on some other Panny plasmas, including a 1080p 50" model and saw no difference in any of them. None of my eight Panny plasmas has component wiring on them anymore.

Rich




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